Iran's Chabahar vs Pakistan's Gwadar

[Woz Ahmed]

All these rumors about high interest rates are just that...rumors. They have no basis in fact.

The Chinese state-owned banks are not lending money to Pakistani state; they are lending to their own Chinese state-owned companies. Chinese will run these infrastructure projects on build-operate-transfer basis. They will recoup their investment and ROI by charging fees & running these as businesses. Gawadar port will be paid for by port charges of millions on tons of cargo a substantial part of it being Chinese cargo.

Sir

I appreciate you replying.

I quoted a parliamentary committee , as you say they are only rumors, but no one knows the fact.

The only facts we do have are power prices and they are not globally competitive, at least for our region.

With regards to Gwader, am i right in thinking the Chinese own the port for 40 years and all the profits are tax free ?

Regardless onwards transportation and cheaper transportation from China will be a boon to all, will reduce the price of our imports from China and likewise provide China with easy access to our physical exports.

 

[Jungibaaz]

There is no 'vs' here. Chabahar is its own project and Gwadar its own. They're not competing over anything. Furthermore, CPEC is way bigger than Gwadar, the vast majority of the investment is elsewhere. it's a nationwide development with infrastructure, energy development, and other projects all under one category.

It's more like 'Iran's Chabahar and Pakistan's Gwadar', the former which has nothing to do with CPEC, and the latter which is only a part of CPEC.

 

[kaykay]

There are mainly three points in consideration with regards to that.

(1) Indian Cargo would still be passing through waters near Gwader and (supposedly)infested by Chinese and Pak Navy. Also Pakistan seabed territory grew by 50,000 square kilometres recently, implying that Indian Cargo had to take longer distance now.

(2) To reach Central Asian states, Indian Cargo will have to pass through Afghanistan and with current volatile situation in Afghanistan plus there are reports of the marked trade route for this purpose being infested and controlled by ATs in Afghanistan. With no end to violence in Afghanistan in near future, movement of this Cargo would be a very difficult job.

(3) Current sanctions on Iran does not allow such a project by any entity and while Uncle Sam might turn a blind eye to that, there wud always be probability of revisiting of sanctions esp with change of regime in Iran.

1. You seriously need to read more about a countrie's rights over its EEZ. While a country holds rights for fishing and other commercial explorations including building structures and artificial islands, It can't deny ships passing from it...Its applicable to all EEZs no matter which country.

 

[RiazHaq]

A newer and increasingly common option in conventional power projects involving Chinese contractors is a project finance structure
such as a BOT (build-operate-transfer). Under a BOT, developers set up and arrange loans to a special purpose vehicle (SPV) in the host country. Some 70-80% of the capital costs of construction will come from these loans, and the remainder will be provided by the developers through equity and / or other loans.

The SPV then enters into all the contracts needed for the project, including an engineering procurement construction (EPC) contract with the contractor. If the funding is from China, this EPC contract will almost always be with a Chinese contractor.

Conventional power projects are seen as particularly 'bankable' BOT projects, because the technology is usually tried and tested and there is a high likelihood that performance requirements will be met. These projects also do not generally require significant land acquisitions, or need extensive underground works, reducing the risk of delays and unforeseen problems. Many jurisdictions, in fact, now have standard form power purchase agreements and implementation agreements that offer to allocate project risks between the offtaker, the government and the developers in a split that is attractive to many lenders.

It has taken Chinese contractors some time to get used to EPC contracts under project financed structures, as these tend to be tough on the contractor. Rates of delay and performance liquidated damages, and the caps on these, are generally much higher, and the contractor's rights to additional time and cost are limited. Many of these rights have to match the power purchase agreement that the SPV has negotiated with the offtaker. However, the upside for the contractor is that the developers are often willing to pay a higher contract price in return for the contractor taking on these additional risks.

Where the finance for the project is coming from Chinese banks, the Chinese contractor may enjoy stronger bargaining power, although that is not always the case. There are plenty of Chinese contractors with the skills needed to build these power stations, and developers will often use the threat of switching negotiations to a competing contractor to get their way in negotiations.

Evolution to investment

Even before the launch of OBOR, the larger and more experienced Chinese contractors had begun the transition from a traditional contractor business model to a 'contractor plus investment' model. Now, the signs are that a significant proportion of OBOR projects will involve Chinese contractors making investments in the projects that they are engaged to construct, and conventional power projects have been among the first to use this structure.

The China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) has been among the first to see innovative project structures. The Thar Coal Block II project involves the development of an open pit coal mine and 660MW mine mouth power station through two SPVs set up by a consortium of Pakistani and Chinese investors, including a major Chinese contractor who will act as both EPC contractor and SPV equity participant. Project finance loans, including conventional RMB and Rupee Islamic tranches, are provided by syndicates of Pakistani and Chinese lenders including Habib Bank, United Bank, China Development Bank, Industrial and Commercial Bank of China and Construction Bank of China.

- See more at: http://www.conventuslaw.com/report/...d-policy-increasing-the/#sthash.3Jx66DDF.dpuf

 

[Fireurimagination]

Gwadar will be used by China and Chabahar by India, nothing's going to change, its just one port no biggie

 

[Arsalan]

All these talks of "vs" are merely ego related, boasting and chest thumping. They are not going for a competition or something. India have interest in chabahar NOT because of Gwadar. They there own reasons. Plus when we talk about Gawadar we must keep in mind the related development, the CPEC project that takes Gwadar to a whole new level.

 

[Manidabest]

there is no competition between two ports they r being built for similar purpose but the cake is too big that both countries can eat respectively

 

[shah1398]

1. You seriously need to read more about a countrie's rights over its EEZ. While a country holds rights for fishing and other commercial explorations including building structures and artificial islands, It can't deny ships passing from it...Its applicable to all EEZs no matter which country.

The increase in SEABED means increase in size of territorial waters. For instance if I agree with what U say as we have right to build anything there then howcome we can protect it with every ship/aircraft passing by openly? Thats kind of contradiction. For instance the new Island that had been constructed in South China Sea are in China's Control and they aint even allowing anyone to fly by its airspace or let any ship operate in its waters without permission. When U claim something is Urs, U dont let anyone operate in it without permission.

 

[AKD]

The increase in SEABED means increase in size of territorial waters. For instance if I agree with what U say as we have right to build anything there then howcome we can protect it with every ship/aircraft passing by openly? Thats kind of contradiction. For instance the new Island that had been constructed in South China Sea are in China's Control and they aint even allowing anyone to fly by its airspace or let any ship operate in its waters without permission. When U claim something is Urs, U dont let anyone operate in it without permission.

Your rights to seabed only includes mining and exploration etc because its EEZ not territorial waters..because Territorial waters are only upto 12nm

 

[kaykay]

The increase in SEABED means increase in size of territorial waters. For instance if I agree with what U say as we have right to build anything there then howcome we can protect it with every ship/aircraft passing by openly? Thats kind of contradiction. For instance the new Island that had been constructed in South China Sea are in China's Control and they aint even allowing anyone to fly by its airspace or let any ship operate in its waters without permission. When U claim something is Urs, U dont let anyone operate in it without permission.

As I said you are defending the undefendable. What you got is EEZ and not territorial waters. Territorial waters are confined to around 23-24 km from coasts while EEZ extends to 200-350 miles....you can stop things in your territorial waters but not in EEZ. As I said, you should read these things or atleast ask your seniors here before making things up....there is a whole UN clause on it defining rights of a state in territorial waters and EEZ.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Point : 2 >>>> sorry to burst your bubble, but as I understand it, Pak's influence in Southern Afganistan is pretty much matched with India's in Balochistan. So my reading is, if India's products dont get safe passage through Southern Afganistan, China's might get the same treatment through Balochistan.

lol are you saying it after we catch your monkey... you have no border with it you almost have no influence in balochistan other than paying dollar to 3 leg horses lol they cant even come to Pakistan..
i am not trying to pinch you so you get up from your wonderful dream.. keep dreaming cuz shining india you can see only in dreams.

 

[New World]

@Kaniska we all know that Afghanistan is not ready for trade atleast a decade.. so the main trade will be with CARs and for that i think bandar abbas port is near to turkmenistan than chabahar..

 

[saaditreen]

Pakistan Gawader is most important and its for China Specially

 

[shah1398]

As I said you are defending the undefendable. What you got is EEZ and not territorial waters. Territorial waters are confined to around 23-24 km from coasts while EEZ extends to 200-350 miles....you can stop things in your territorial waters but not in EEZ. As I said, you should read these things or atleast ask your seniors here before making things up....there is a whole UN clause on it defining rights of a state in territorial waters and EEZ.

And I would surely do so.

 

[wasileo80]

Point : 2 >>>> sorry to burst your bubble, but as I understand it, Pak's influence in Southern Afganistan is pretty much matched with India's in Balochistan. So my reading is, if India's products dont get safe passage through Southern Afganistan, China's might get the same treatment through Balochistan.

Now its the time to burst your bubble. Is it you who will decide that who will get safe passage through Baluchistan????? WOW day dreaming at its peak.
Well Its your fantasy that you can control Baluchistan with your evil dreams Now the Baluchistan is very stable and Pakistan controls this insurgency very well and we will continue to take appropriate measures to maintain peace in Baluchistan. And we are confident that we will not allow India to disturb Baluchistan and CPEC again. Mind it.
Come out from your day dreaming... Its not Nepal or Bangladesh that you can dictate them Its Pakistan and if your country continue to support insurgency in Pakistan then you will have to bear the consequences.