Iran's Chabahar vs Pakistan's Gwadar

[RiazHaq]

http://www.riazhaq.com/2016/05/comparing-irans-chabahar-and-pakistans.html

Chabahar port in Iran is only about 100 miles from Gwadar port in Pakistan. Both are natural deep sea ports in the Arabian sea.


Gwadar Extends into Deep Sea with East & West Bays



Eastern Half of Gwadar Port


Gwadar port's planned capacity when it is completed will be 300 to 400 million tons of cargo annually. It is comparable to the capacity of all of India's ports combined annual capacity of 500 million tons of cargo today. It is far larger than the 10-12 million tons cargo handling capacity planned for Chabahar.


Completed Gwadar Berths & Cranes



To put Gwadar's scale in perspective, let's compare it with the largest US port of Long Beach which handles 80 million tons of cargo, about a quarter of what Gwadar will handle upon completion of the project. Gawadar port will be capable of handling the world's largest container ships and massive oil tankers.




Gawadar port is being built in Pakistan by the Chinese as part of the ambitious $46 billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) that will eventually serve as Hong Kong West for growing Chinese trade with the Middle East and Europe. CPEC will also enable Pakistan to bypass Afghanistan to trade with Central Asia through China across China's borders with Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan.


Gwadar Port Authority Building

Chabahar is ostensibly an Indian effort to build a port in Iran to bypass Pakistan for India's trade with landlocked Afghanistan and other Central Asian states. Prime Minister Modi has committed $500 million investment in Chabahar, a tiny fraction of the Chinese commitment for Gwadar. A trilateral agreement was recently signed in Tehran by Indian Prime Minister Modi, Iranian President Rouhani and Afghan President Ghani.

Trade with Afghanistan through Afghan-Iran border in the West will probably remain a pipe dream given that 1) most of Afghan population lives in east and south close to the border with Pakistan and 2) Afghanistan has very poor infrastructure making it very difficult to move cargo across land from west to east and south of the country.

Pakistan suspects that India's real objective in Iran is to locate its intelligence agents under the cover of Chabahar port construction workers to sabotage China-Pakistan Economic Economic Corridor (CPEC) and support Baloch insurgency to destabilize Pakistan. These suspicions were strengthened when Indian spy Kulbhushan Yadav, operating under the fake name Husain Mubarak Patel, was arrested in Balochistan in March this year. Yadav confessed he was operating as an undercover RAW agent from his base in Chabahar, Iran.

If Iran does nothing to stop Indian covert activities from its soil against Pakistan, Iran-Pakistan relations could suffer irreparable harm. Efforts to sabotage CPEC will not please China either, and the Chinese are far more important to Iran as trading partners than India. This should give pause to hardline anti-Pakistan sectarian elements in Tehran.

Here's a video about Gwadar Port Project:

Related Links:

Haq's Musings

Gwadar as Hong Kong West

China-Pakistan Industrial Corridor

Indian Spy Kulbhushan Yadav's Confession

Ex Indian Spy Documents RAW Successes Against Pakistan

Saleem Safi of GeoTV on Gwadar

Pakistan FDI Soaring with Chinese Money for CPEC


http://www.riazhaq.com/2016/05/comparing-irans-chabahar-and-pakistans.html

 

[Kaniska]

On top of that Gwadar has backing of China and they are very good in execution of any projects overseas where as India does not have the credibility of executing multiple projects in time line. I can see that there is a potential that China or Japan may get involved in Chabar to complete the project. I am highly doubtful about completion of Chabar project with India only.

 

[shah1398]

Chabahar is ostensibly an Indian effort to build a port in Iran to bypass Pakistan for India's trade with landlocked Afghanistan and other Central Asian states.

There are mainly three points in consideration with regards to that.

(1) Indian Cargo would still be passing through waters near Gwader and (supposedly)infested by Chinese and Pak Navy. Also Pakistan seabed territory grew by 50,000 square kilometres recently, implying that Indian Cargo had to take longer distance now.

(2) To reach Central Asian states, Indian Cargo will have to pass through Afghanistan and with current volatile situation in Afghanistan plus there are reports of the marked trade route for this purpose being infested and controlled by ATs in Afghanistan. With no end to violence in Afghanistan in near future, movement of this Cargo would be a very difficult job.

(3) Current sanctions on Iran does not allow such a project by any entity and while Uncle Sam might turn a blind eye to that, there wud always be probability of revisiting of sanctions esp with change of regime in Iran.

 

[AKD]

There are mainly three points in consideration with regards to that.

(1) Indian Cargo would still be passing through waters near Gwader and (supposedly)infested by Chinese and Pak Navy. Also Pakistan seabed territory grew by 50,000 square kilometres recently, implying that Indian Cargo had to take longer distance now.

(2) To reach Central Asian states, Indian Cargo will have to pass through Afghanistan and with current volatile situation in Afghanistan plus there are reports of the marked trade route for this purpose being infested and controlled by ATs in Afghanistan. With no end to violence in Afghanistan in near future, movement of this Cargo would be a very difficult job.

(3) Current sanctions on Iran does not allow such a project by any entity and while Uncle Sam might turn a blind eye to that, there wud always be probability of revisiting of sanctions esp with change of regime in Iran.

1. that's your EEZ not territorial waters you cant stop anyone from crossing it

2.to reach central Asia we need Turkmenistan from iran..reaching Afghanistan is totally different project

3.you may have read the thread that America is backing chahbahar port.

 

[Ola]

There are mainly three points in consideration with regards to that.

(1) Indian Cargo would still be passing through waters near Gwader and (supposedly)infested by Chinese and Pak Navy. Also Pakistan seabed territory grew by 50,000 square kilometres recently, implying that Indian Cargo had to take longer distance now.

(2) To reach Central Asian states, Indian Cargo will have to pass through Afghanistan and with current volatile situation in Afghanistan plus there are reports of the marked trade route for this purpose being infested and controlled by ATs in Afghanistan. With no end to violence in Afghanistan in near future, movement of this Cargo would be a very difficult job.

(3) Current sanctions on Iran does not allow such a project by any entity and while Uncle Sam might turn a blind eye to that, there wud always be probability of revisiting of sanctions esp with change of regime in Iran.

Point : 2 >>>> sorry to burst your bubble, but as I understand it, Pak's influence in Southern Afganistan is pretty much matched with India's in Balochistan. So my reading is, if India's products dont get safe passage through Southern Afganistan, China's might get the same treatment through Balochistan.

 

[shah1398]

Point : 2 >>>> sorry to burst your bubble, but as I understand it, Pak's influence in Southern Afganistan is pretty much matched with India's in Balochistan. So my reading is, if India's products dont get safe passage through Southern Afganistan, China's might get the same treatment through Balochistan.

Knock knock....We have already raised a strong force for the protection of the CPEC plus India wud be fool enough to even mess with Chinese Cargo...Repeat its Chinese Cargo. Plus i havent even touched upon what Pakistan can do to disrupt Indian supplies, all i pointed at was that firstly the road India had been trying to build is no where completion yet plus most ATs have already asserted control in different places along the same area plus after ATs having accused Iran of giving intel regarding their ex Chief to US, do U really think they gonna let things settle down that soon that easy?

1. that's your EEZ not territorial waters you cant stop anyone from crossing it

2.to reach central Asia we need Turkmenistan from iran..reaching Afghanistan is totally different project

3.you may have read the thread that America is backing chahbahar port.

1: Plz read again. Pakistan's SEABED has extended further by 50000 sq KM and they are now officially our territorial waters and U aint passing through them without permission. U take a round trip further. Plus U mess with Chinese Cargo, U Cargo is more than easily compromised and its us U are passing near by.

2: U can still support Afghanistan via Iran till Chahbahar is not operational. Why is the case that landlocked Afghanistan is still inaccessible by India in current circumstances? U can surely use Turkmenistan to access Central Asia instead of Afghanistan, but its the extra cost U adding to the cargo. Wud it be even economically viable? If Iran can supply same stuff at cheaper rate than Urs then are U going to stop him from doing so? Why were U trying to access Afghanistan via Pakistan? Mainly bcz of ease of operation and less incurring costs.

3: Right now yes US is apparently doing so but its not mainly bcz of India but bcz of current Iran's govt submission to US on core issues. Next time a man like Ahmedi Nejad is back in driving seat then what guarantee do U have?

 

[Kaniska]

Guyz...the argument of Gwadar and Chabar is completely useless and no value at all...Gwadar is for usage by China with its junior Ally Pakistan...where Chabar is an gateway for India to Central Asia...The execution of Chabar project is yet to be tested on ground..India simply did not demonstrate its capability any where in the world expcept few projects in Afganistan, to execute its project.

So i am not sure why Indian posters are going on argument just because we have to argue on everything against Pakistan....Bigger point is that wherever China got involved in construction project they have stellar record of getting it completed unless and otherwise, Pakistan itself mess something by their own...But for India to complete Chabar project our own internal Gov is biggest culprit and on top of it, Iran is a friend but remember the fact that Iran can change descisons based its own benifit which is perfectly fair too...

I can only hope Chabar to get executed in a timely manner only when either US or Japan get involved in someway or the other...Otherwise, honestly i do not have much hope on GOI to complete the project.

 

[RiazHaq]

 

[Woz Ahmed]

I enjoy Huqs Musings, but if you revisit them a few years on when better data is available, they are not as fabulous as I would hope.

If Gwader reaches 300-400 million tonnes, it will be greater than Hong Kong port, as much as I would like to believe this I am a realist. Karachi is only 66MT.

All development is good, as long as someone else is paying the bills or we don't enter a debt trap, sadly I think its the latter.

Mr Huq, recently a parliamentary committee said we were paying 8% interest on CPEC projects, obviously information is not available in the open, and international tendering outside of China is prohibited, so everyone is unsure.

The only indicator we have is that solar power from Bahawalpur is at least four times what India pays and double what UAE pays under CPEC. Yet financing is the key cost of solar and we have the best solar irradiation in Asia if not beyond.

You seem a well connected guy, what's your view?

 

[Tps43]

All pakistanis who support iran should visit iran once in their life to see what type of response they get there!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Guyz...the argument of Gwadar and Chabar is completely useless and no value at all...Gwadar is for usage by China with its junior Ally Pakistan...where Chabar is an gateway for India to Central Asia...The execution of Chabar project is yet to be tested on ground..India simply did not demonstrate its capability any where in the world expcept few projects in Afganistan, to execute its project.

So i am not sure why Indian posters are going on argument just because we have to argue on everything against Pakistan....Bigger point is that wherever China got involved in construction project they have stellar record of getting it completed unless and otherwise, Pakistan itself mess something by their own...But for India to complete Chabar project our own internal Gov is biggest culprit and on top of it, Iran is a friend but remember the fact that Iran can change descisons based its own benifit which is perfectly fair too...

I can only hope Chabar to get executed in a timely manner only when either US or Japan get involved in someway or the other...Otherwise, honestly i do not have much hope on GOI to complete the project.

Here is a food for thought...
Chabahar Port would be taken as a rival port by the Arabs because all the things they export can be exported by Iran and that too on less rate.

Gwadar port would be used as importing all the stuff that the Arabs sell to China and vice versa hence not a rival. The only difference Gwader port would have is shorter time for the Arabs to ship their goods.

Now if USA directly enters into contract regarding Chabahar then this would cause grater mistrust.


@Arsalan , @MastanKhan @Zarvan @araz @Penguin
What are your thoughts on the above mentioned points.

 

[Super Falcon]

We forget major things

Chabhar port limited to iran and Afghanistan if it's need to go east need Pakistani land connection why ship land their stuff for other countries

Where gwadar connects Russia China far east entire Pakistan China is big economy itself

Iran and Afghanistan are poor countries demands of stuff are less there

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

We forget major things

Chabhar port limited to iran and Afghanistan if it's need to go east need Pakistani land connection why ship land their stuff for other countries

Where gwadar connects Russia China far east entire Pakistan China is big economy itself

Iran and Afghanistan are poor countries demands of stuff are less there

A few days back there was news regarding an ambitious project that the Iranians had proposed to Russia. This project would link the Caspian Sea with Arabian Sea. A canal would be bade similar to Suez.

If the project materialises then it opens up Russia and Kazakhstan. moreover it also allows Russia to build a special Caspian Fleet counter balancing the US fleet in the Persian Gulf. It also gives Russia an alternate route bypassing NATO block.

 

[RiazHaq]

I enjoy Huqs Musings, but if you revisit them a few years on when better data is available, they are not as fabulous as I would hope.

If Gwader reaches 300-400 million tonnes, it will be greater than Hong Kong port, as much as I would like to believe this I am a realist. Karachi is only 66MT.

All development is good, as long as someone else is paying the bills or we don't enter a debt trap, sadly I think its the latter.

Mr Huq, recently a parliamentary committee said we were paying 8% interest on CPEC projects, obviously information is not available in the open, and international tendering outside of China is prohibited, so everyone is unsure.

The only indicator we have is that solar power from Bahawalpur is at least four times what India pays and double what UAE pays under CPEC. Yet financing is the key cost of solar and we have the best solar irradiation in Asia if not beyond.

You seem a well connected guy, what's your view?

All these rumors about high interest rates are just that...rumors. They have no basis in fact.

The Chinese state-owned banks are not lending money to Pakistani state; they are lending to their own Chinese state-owned companies. Chinese will run these infrastructure projects on build-operate-transfer basis. They will recoup their investment and ROI by charging fees & running these as businesses. Gawadar port will be paid for by port charges of millions on tons of cargo a substantial part of it being Chinese cargo.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Point : 2 >>>> sorry to burst your bubble, but as I understand it, Pak's influence in Southern Afganistan is pretty much matched with India's in Balochistan. So my reading is, if India's products dont get safe passage through Southern Afganistan, China's might get the same treatment through Balochistan.

Lol....indian influence in Balochistan is virtually non-existent. The people in Balochistan are becoming more patriotic and rebels are laying down arms everyday. They all want to be part of the success of CPEC. Baloch independence movement is more dead and buried then the sikh seperatists of india. The only meaningful Baloch rebels are now all in exile in the west.....lol. There's more chance of the Pakistan airforce colonising Mars then there is of the Baloch movement rising again