Iranian women's rights activist condemns Western feminists for wearing the hijab in 'solidarity'

[hussain0216]

Your opinions are yours and I'm ok with that. your definitions of 'uber liberal' or having balance is of no relevance here.

what's important is that opinions of the Iranian people about their own country, which is not being taken into account. And that is the problem.

Your not listening

Turkey for example is a lighter version of iran
Attaturk or his ilk banned the hijab, disallowed the azaan but even after decades you have a reaction and get the AKP

Now politics in Turkey is different forever, whilst you still have your secular parties those parties cannot disown religious Turks if they want power and thus must amend some of their policies eg hijab

You get a more balanced society

Iranians are more dopey they keep going to extremes
Either Mullahs trying to enforce theocracy
Or you have these liberal western wannabe slime that are intent on suppressing or even destroying religion

NO BALANCE!!!!!

NEITHER SIDE takes notice of the other, the conservatives hate the liberal slime as westerner cock suckers and the liberals in turn hate religion and immerse themselves in everything from fake western blonde hair to crazy fashions they see on youtube to a nationalism based upon pre islamic crap

Both have become deluded

In order for iran to move forward BOTH sides need space within iran

The conservatives need to understand that not everyone is religious and those clowns need their space to do whatever


And the liberal secular western wannabes need to understand many people are religious, conservative and have a belief in faith and God and need their space to express and embrace that without being destroyed or overcome by nonsense



Tell me are Iranians that sane to do this??




Pakistan for its faults is mostly a religious and conservative society but we have plenty of space for the liberal secular types to go to their parties, have dances and act accordingly

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

some form of democracy and rule of law and many countries including China and India have become incomparably wealthier than before.

No they haven't. The inequality gap has increased massively. If the US is so rich why are there so many homeless people? Why are there so many foreclosures? Why are there so many jobless? Why is stress and fatigue so high? Why does everyone feel nothing changes if they live in a democracy?

If the rule of law is so great.... why are people crying injustice and human rights violations? why are there wars? why is there civil unrest? why is the crime rate so high?

Why are people dying in debt? why are families splitting up? why are people dissatisfied? why are people dying?

Why is it harder to make a life now than 100 years ago? why are people dumber? why is the earth more polluted?

i could go on with whys to fill the whole forum

why are people worse when they turn away from their god and also worse when then turn towards their god? why are people unhappy?

Your whole concept of reality is a fantasy

 

[bozorgmehr]

Your not listening

Turkey for example is a lighter version of iran
Attaturk or his ilk banned the hijab, disallowed the azaan but even after decades you have a reaction and get the AKP

Now politics in Turkey is different forever, whilst you still have your secular parties those parties cannot disown religious Turks if they want power and thus must amend some of their policies eg hijab

You get a more balanced society

Iranians are more dopey they keep going to extremes
Either Mullahs trying to enforce theocracy
Or you have these liberal western wannabe slime that are intent on suppressing or even destroying religion

NO BALANCE!!!!!

NEITHER SIDE takes notice of the other, the conservatives hate the liberal slime as westerner cock suckers and the liberals in turn hate religion and immerse themselves in everything from fake western blonde hair to crazy fashions they see on youtube to a nationalism based upon pre islamic crap

Both have become deluded

In order for iran to move forward BOTH sides need space within iran

The conservatives need to understand that not everyone is religious and those clowns need their space to do whatever


And the liberal secular western wannabes need to understand many people are religious, conservative and have a belief in faith and God and need their space to express and embrace that without being destroyed or overcome by nonsense



Tell me are Iranians that sane to do this??




Pakistan for its faults is mostly a religious and conservative society but we have plenty of space for the liberal secular types to go to their parties, have dances and act accordingly

The Turkish republic was modeled after ethnocentric/fascist European societies for most its history, starting with the young Turks. And we all know about their handy work. What you see today is a very recent phenomenon. And it won't stay that way. Turkey is moving in the other direction now. The symbols may be different. But the mentality hasn't changed that much.

This was never the case in Iran. There was always more room for different opinions in Iran. Except for the brief stint when Reza Shah banned hejab, the religious people were always present and always played a role in the political events of the country. We had a constitutional revolution in 1905, where we had the monarch sign a constitution, limiting his powers. Bahais, baabi's, Jews, Zoroastrians... different ethnicities of Iran all participated in that revolution as one nation. The leader of revolutionary militia was a Christian Armenian, by the name of Yeprem Khan. That's where we were, when Turks were starting to round up Armenians and Assyrians.

What you saw with the Islamic revolution was the backlash of the most conservative strata of Iranian society coming to grips with modernity. And what you see today is the culmination of 2 generations of Iranians living under that conservative vision and what it amounts to.

So yes, there appears to be more balance between the forces in Turkey. But personally, I believe the Iranian experience to be more organic that will lead to more genuine and long lasting changes in Iranian society.

BTW, I do notice and credit Pakistanis for making room for the more liberal leaning elements of their society. I wish for nothing more than tolerance and coexistence within Pakistan and between our countries. We have a long way to go though

 

[hussain0216]

Except for the brief stint when Reza Shah banned hejab

You are discounting this period far too easily

It was a period of decades and the Shah was far to liberal and forced those ideals upon the state

It caused a reaction with which you are suffering still

And irans answer is to come to grips with its population and give the religious and liberals their own space

What is happening however is that both sides wish the other destroyed without any compromise

The conservatives are in power
They are the seat of the Shia world
They control the military the guard and weapons
And they have considerable support amongst the faithfull

Iran has massive pressure from world powers to gulf arabs to bow down you may not like the Mullahs but I respect their tenacity and resolve

All iran has to do is open up a bit

Because the westernized liberal types are a tool in the hands of Iran's enemies
Irans enemies dont want iran to resolve its societal issues they want it to implode and attack itself

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

This guys not listening to any political, human, economic, historical or common sense dialogues. Hes set on his own agenda. Im starting to think the Iranian problem is not the mullah but their personality.

(bozorgmehr)

 

[hussain0216]

The Turkish republic was modeled after ethnocentric/fascist European societies for most its history, starting with the young Turks. And we all know about their handy work. What you see today is a very recent phenomenon. And it won't stay that way. Turkey is moving in the other direction now. The symbols may be different. But the mentality hasn't changed that much.

This was never the case in Iran. There was always more room for different opinions in Iran. Except for the brief stint when Reza Shah banned hejab, the religious people were always present and always played a role in the political events of the country. We had a constitutional revolution in 1905, where we had the monarch sign a constitution, limiting his powers. Bahais, baabi's, Jews, Zoroastrians... different ethnicities of Iran all participated in that revolution as one nation. The leader of revolutionary militia was a Christian Armenian, by the name of Yeprem Khan. That's where we were, when Turks were starting to round up Armenians and Assyrians.

What you saw with the Islamic revolution was the backlash of the most conservative strata of Iranian society coming to grips with modernity. And what you see today is the culmination of 2 generations of Iranians living under that conservative vision and what it amounts to.

So yes, there appears to be more balance between the forces in Turkey. But personally, I believe the Iranian experience to be more organic that will lead to more genuine and long lasting changes in Iranian society.

BTW, I do notice and credit Pakistanis for making room for the more liberal leaning elements of their society. I wish for nothing more than tolerance and coexistence within Pakistan and between our countries. We have a long way to go though

You are discounting this period far too easily

It was a period of decades and the Shah was far to liberal and forced those ideals upon the state

It caused a reaction with which you are suffering still

And irans answer is to come to grips with its population and give the religious and liberals their own space

What is happening however is that both sides wish the other destroyed without any compromise

The conservatives are in power
They are the seat of the Shia world
They control the military the guard and weapons
And they have considerable support amongst the faithfull

Iran has massive pressure from world powers to gulf arabs to bow down you may not like the Mullahs but I respect their tenacity and resolve

All iran has to do is open up a bit

Because the westernized liberal types are a tool in the hands of Iran's enemies
Irans enemies dont want iran to resolve its societal issues they want it to implode and attack itself

 

[bozorgmehr]

You are discounting this period far too easily

It was a period of decades and the Shah was far to liberal and forced those ideals upon the state

It caused a reaction with which you are suffering still

And irans answer is to come to grips with its population and give the religious and liberals their own space

What is happening however is that both sides wish the other destroyed without any compromise

The conservatives are in power
They are the seat of the Shia world
They control the military the guard and weapons
And they have considerable support amongst the faithfull

Iran has massive pressure from world powers to gulf arabs to bow down you may not like the Mullahs but I respect their tenacity and resolve

All iran has to do is open up a bit

Because the westernized liberal types are a tool in the hands of Iran's enemies
Irans enemies dont want iran to resolve its societal issues they want it to implode and attack itself

Reza shah's forced uncovering was temporary. He instituted it in 1936. And he was removed when the British invaded in 1941. His son, during all of his reign attempted to assuage the clergy. He went to Hajj. He prayed in mosques. Women wore their veil.

Giving people freedom of choice is not being liberal or a Western lackey. We have long tradition of that in our country, going back to antiquity. Of course, this undermines the base of clergy's power. So they're against that. But this is an irreversible movement. So the religious can learn to adapt and modify their beliefs so as not to get in the way other people's choices. Or stand fast and be blown out of the way. Today it's Iran. But tomorrow it will be Pakistan. There's no doubt about it.

And you are entitled to your conspiracy theories about iran's enemies. But I don't share them. Thank you very much!

 

[hussain0216]

Reza shah's forced uncovering was temporary. He instituted it in 1936. And he was removed when the British invaded in 1941. His son, during all of his reign attempted to assuage the clergy. He went to Hajj. He prayed in mosques. Women wore their veil.

Giving people freedom of choice is not being liberal or a Western lackey. We have long tradition of that in our country, going back to antiquity. Of course, this undermines the base of clergy's power. So they're against that. But this is an irreversible movement. So the religious can learn to adapt and modify their beliefs so as to not get in the way other people's choices. Or stand fast and be blown out of the way. Today it's Iran. But tomorrow it will be Pakistan. There's no doubt about it.

And you are entitled to your conspiracy theories about iran's enemies. But I don't share them. Thank you very much!

How Pakistan?????

We are a democracy

Religious parties hardly get any votes here

Our problem isnt religious parties its CORRUPT normal ones



Once again your denying the reason why there was such a big religious and conservative backlash in iran in 1979

Let me explain to you
UNLESS you understand, you will try to do the same dumb thing the Shah was doing and get the same reaction

Two sides of the same iranian coin

Conservatives/liberal wannabes both extremists intent on forcing the other or destroying him

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

So the religious can learn to adapt and modify their beliefs so as to not get in the way other people's choices. Or stand fast and be blown out of the way. Today it's Iran. But tomorrow it will be Pakistan. There's no doubt about it.

Better to have a gradual social movement than a sudden large scale massacre of Islamists.

You are a terrorist (person who wishes to bring down the government and its institutions and target its civilians) and your ideology is based upon fire-worship and you desire to re-establish the ancient persian khalifat. There is no difference between you and the ones you fight.

NOW i know why US General Mattis said the Iran sanctions were to stop the revolutionary elements in Iran.

 

[WinterNights]

and your ideology is based upon fire-worship and


.

If Ancient Persians worshipped fire, then you muslims worship mecca. Don't talk about topic your brain is too small to understand.

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

If Ancient Persians worshipped fire, then you muslims worship mecca. Don't talk about topic your brain is too small to understand.

I know more about Zoroaster than you. I have access to the Persian curator at the British library.

Does that make sense to you. hint * hint

 

[WinterNights]

I know more about Zoroaster than you. I have access to the Persian curator at the British library.

Subhuman, then why make a comment that is detached from Zoroastrianism? You muslims stole most of your concepts from the like Zoroastrians and Jews anyway.

 

[bozorgmehr]

No they haven't. The inequality gap has increased massively. If the US is so rich why are there so many homeless people? Why are there so many foreclosures? Why are there so many jobless? Why is stress and fatigue so high? Why does everyone feel nothing changes if they live in a democracy?

If the rule of law is so great.... why are people crying injustice and human rights violations? why are there wars? why is there civil unrest? why is the crime rate so high?

Why are people dying in debt? why are families splitting up? why are people dissatisfied? why are people dying?

Why is it harder to make a life now than 100 years ago? why are people dumber? why is the earth more polluted?

i could go on with whys to fill the whole forum

why are people worse when they turn away from their god and also worse when then turn towards their god? why are people unhappy?

Your whole concept of reality is a fantasy

My friend, nobody said the world is a utopia today. We're talking about trends, a comparison of where the world was 40 years ago and where it is today. East Germany, poland, Czech republic, Romania, Hungary, korea, Chile, Brazil, Mexico, Philipines, Myanmar, Argentina, Spain, Portugal, South Africa, and on and on and on.. went from Totalitarian/Communist/Authoritarian/Singl-party/Dictatorship, etc. to some form of representative government, based on the notion of rule of law. Yes or no?

India, China, Vietnam, Mexico, Chile, Poland, Spain, korea, Botswana, etc... are all richer than they used to be 40 years ago. Yes or no?

That is all I'm saying. That the world has fundamentally moved in that direction, as proved by the evidence.

Whether it has reached a satisfactory level of wealth, justice or health care according to your standard is not what I'm debating here.

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

Subhuman, then why make a comment that is detached from Zoroastrianism? You muslims stole most of your concepts from the like Zoroastrians and Jews anyway.

custard cream

 

[WinterNights]

dont raise you voice to KM, you dont know who you are speaking with.

If you have an issue pick up the phone and tell your superior officer to direct his call to foreign intelligence.

It seems you're mentally retarded.