What's new

Iranian Navy | News and Discussions

Why is Iran's speed in making these 1400 ton frigate so slow? I know that they have reduced time taken drastically from what it used it, and I also they make changes in each model but still why does it take at least a year to make such a small ship?

But you're kidding !!
Not even the Chinese shipyards are able to make a Type 056 in 1 year, at least they need 3 years, despite all the productive potential of the other industries that supply the components that make up the whole of a military ship; as you have noticed I took for example a Type 056 because in size and displacement it is similar to the new Damavand. And you claim that the Iranian shipyards and all the Iranian industries that supply the "accessories" manage to complete a Mowj class in 1 year !!!
 
.
But you're kidding !!
Not even the Chinese shipyards are able to make a Type 056 in 1 year, at least they need 3 years, despite all the productive potential of the other industries that supply the components that make up the whole of a military ship; as you have noticed I took for example a Type 056 because in size and displacement it is similar to the new Damavand. And you claim that the Iranian shipyards and all the Iranian industries that supply the "accessories" manage to complete a Mowj class in 1 year !!!
Do you know how long the latest ships will take?
Is the production automated in any way or is it still predominantly manual labor?
 
.
[QUOTE = "Sina-1, post: 12031596, membro: 179042"] Sai quanto tempo impiegheranno le ultime navi?
La produzione è automatizzata in qualche modo o è ancora prevalentemente lavoro manuale? [/ QUOTE]
I am not aware of this, but in any case now the construction of the hull blocks is relatively rapid also in Iran, what then makes the time to complete a military ship longer is all that must be inserted inside to make it operationally efficient in every its system.
The delays of the past were mainly attributable to the finding of the 2 French 10000 hp engines used each ship, today The engines should be 4 of about 5000 hp each, engines of national production, but it is still not certain that these national engines have reached the full technical efficiency to be installed, photos of the gold on the Sahand showed that excellent Caterpillar engines were installed, probably imported not through official routes, leading in fact to a further difficulty in completing it more quickly.
Ditto for me the situation for Dena and Shiraz, I think the biggest difficulties are finding the engines abroad or the slow production of the domestic engines.
The hulls are not a problem, another already completed can be observed in the same shipyard where the Dena is set up inside the sheds.
 
.
But you're kidding !!
Not even the Chinese shipyards are able to make a Type 056 in 1 year, at least they need 3 years, despite all the productive potential of the other industries that supply the components that make up the whole of a military ship; as you have noticed I took for example a Type 056 because in size and displacement it is similar to the new Damavand. And you claim that the Iranian shipyards and all the Iranian industries that supply the "accessories" manage to complete a Mowj class in 1 year !!!

Go have a look at the speed which the Chinese are building destroyers much heavier than type 56. Furthermore, Iran still has not build any Mowj in less than a year, they've claimed they could but I have not seen it. You're apparently under the impression that building a couple of 1400 ton frigates every few years (as we've seen so far) is something impressive. I have even heard them saying it will take them 5 years to finish the loghman training ship...The fact remains, despite the impressive future ambitions that we've seen come out of the navy, there is little to show for it in practise. What Iran has done so far is commendable, especially under the sanctions. But don't forget, this is Iran we're talking about here, not some banana state. Iran needs to get much more active in seriously increasing it naval size and assets. Whatever the reason for this slow growth should be addressed. Iran should not get content with it self so easily. Yes building a submarine is very hard work, but given the full weight of your history and ancestors on your shoulders, we need to see much more.
 
.
Go have a look at the speed which the Chinese are building destroyers much heavier than type 56. Furthermore, Iran still has not build any Mowj in less than a year, they've claimed they could but I have not seen it. You're apparently under the impression that building a couple of 1400 ton frigates every few years (as we've seen so far) is something impressive. I have even heard them saying it will take them 5 years to finish the loghman training ship...The fact remains, despite the impressive future ambitions that we've seen come out of the navy, there is little to show for it in practise. What Iran has done so far is commendable, especially under the sanctions. But don't forget, this is Iran we're talking about here, not some banana state. Iran needs to get much more active in seriously increasing it naval size and assets. Whatever the reason for this slow growth should be addressed. Iran should not get content with it self so easily. Yes building a submarine is very hard work, but given the full weight of your history and ancestors on your shoulders, we need to see much more.

A 1400-ton military unit of about 100 meters in length (Mowj or 056) has such dimensions that only a predetermined number of workers and technicians can work on it at the same time, indeed often if one does a certain job others must refrain from doing their .
The only alternative to speed up construction, if you have all the components of the ship available and if you have a large number of skilled workers and technicians, is to set up the work in shifts and cover the entire 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
But 1 year from the cutting of the first sheet, to the delivery of the ship, it would always remain a very difficult goal to achieve
 
.
A 1400-ton military unit of about 100 meters in length (Mowj or 056) has such dimensions that only a predetermined number of workers and technicians can work on it at the same time, indeed often if one does a certain job others must refrain from doing their .
The only alternative to speed up construction, if you have all the components of the ship available and if you have a large number of skilled workers and technicians, is to set up the work in shifts and cover the entire 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
But 1 year from the cutting of the first sheet, to the delivery of the ship, it would always remain a very difficult goal to achieve

We just have to agree to disagree.

The other issue here is the low numbers being built simultaneously. I don't know whether this is because of:

a) funding
b) they still don't have a design they want to mass produce in larger quantity
c) technical issues
d) All of the above

But lets be honest, Iran's navy is still weak. Let us hope that once the 3000 ton trimaran frigate and then 7000 ton destroyers are finished, they we will at least see them built in decent numbers and not 1 every 10 years...
 
.
Generally I attribute the slow production in Iran to lack of funding and sourcing of some critical items (foreign or domestic). In case of the shipyards there is a requirement levied on the Iranian shipyards which originated by supreme leader that states each ship must be more advanced than the previous one. This requirement is good because it forces the pace of the innovation in the ship design not to stall, however it also contributes to slow production because no ship is like the previous one..think of all the engineering drawings, brand new qual tests and band new ship trials and sea trials that have to happen per ship (e.g one has caterpillar power plant and associated controls with two screws and the other one has 4 domestic engines and 4 screws and stealthy features of the hull..not to mention repeating all the integration of various weapon and sensor subsystems...just integrating a different radar could set you back 6 months (hardware and software updates to the original source code!!!).
one solution is to go to limited production (lets say 3 exact similar ships) before going to the next iteration.. that will speed up the production and also improve the maintenance tasks.:undecided: but yes Iran does have production problems in every sector including military.
 
.
1) There's Nominal GDP vs PPP GDP. PPP GDP gives you a better idea imo
2) I was watching a debate program, I forget precisely which media outlet it was, however a western economic analyst stated that without sanctions, Iran's GDP would easily be over 1 trillion right now.
3) Oil prices are down and Iran is sanctioned. Theoretically if oil prices were up and Iran wasn't sanctioned, Iran's GDP could be well over 1 trillion nominal.
4) Turkey's external debt is 452 BILLION whereas Iran's is 8 BILLION. Iran could have borrowed more money over time but give credit where credit is due, in the end debt is not a good thing and Iran's government have steared Iran clear of debt. Russia in comparison is 540 BILLION. Also Iran has slightly more Gold reserves than Turkey. Russia has approx 4 times as much Gold reserves as Turkey and Iran.
5) Turkey's real GDP growth is currently negative according to some economic analysts like CEIC

You are overestimating the role of foreign investments....If larger amount of foreign investments were made in Iran, its economy would be 5-10% larger than it is today.... and still smaller than Turkish.

Iran was open to foreign investments but most investments came into oil sector. Stock of Iran's foreign investment at home is 50bln$. Turkish stock of foreign investment is 180bln$....If you want to attract more foreign investments you need to make institutional reforms to create good environment for foreign investors---simply relieving sanctions is not enough.

Of course because of sanctions Iran lagged behind Turkey....2 shortages:
1) It is normal for countries to borrow money in international financial markets and invest that money into domestic economy.....Iran was banned from international financial markets and could not borrow cheaply.

In contrast, having access to international financial markets, Turkish companies borrowed a lot of money and invested into their economy---Turkish external debt (corporate +government) is 452bln$---50% of Turkish nominal GDP.

Iran however could not borrow and its external debt is small---7bln$ only----or 1,5% of GDP---so potentially there is a lot of room to grow.

Because Iranian debt is so small --there is a lot of room to grow when sanctions are relieved----- Iranian companies and government can potentially borrow hundreds of billions of dollars and make investments into Iranian economy thus boosting economic growth.

2) There is a potential to attracting more foreign investments.

But even despite all this, Iranian economy is overall less dynamic than Turkish because of geographic reasons.

Regarding "No one can accurately predict the economy of a country that far in the future."


Of course it is impossible to accurately estimate future GDP over the next 30 years...but accuracy doesn't matter---what is important is overall picture of the future.

Economists at PwC analyzed each country and provided their overall view of how world will look like in 2050. I myself don't agree with some of their estimates (for example I doubt long-term success of Saudi Arabia--a country whose economy is fully built on oil).....but overall balance of power seems realistic.

This is an overall picture of the future.

Most countries that are higher on the list than Iran will have economies that will be 1,1-2,5 times bigger than Iranian economy----this is not a substantial superiority and these countries will not be able to threaten Iran.

However 3 countries will have substantial superiority over Iran....

USA will have a GDP which is 8,5 timers bigger than Iran's and China will have a GDP that is 14,5 times bigger than Iran---------so these countries will potentially be big enough to threaten Iran.

But China and USA are far away located and China will be contained by an alliance of Japan+Korea+Taiwan+Vietnam+USA....And US will be busy containing China like it contained USSR in the past.

However India is an immediate neighbor of Iran and will have a GDP that is 11 times bigger than Iran's---so India is a potential long-term threat to Iran.

We can assume that in the future India will build a huge Navy and air force and will become a hyperpower that projects power through the area and tries to establish hegemony in the Indian Ocean basin.

So while China and USA are far away located and will be busy containing each other....India will become a threat not only to Pakistan but also to Iran and other counties of the region.

So probably a military block of Iran+Pakistan+China designed to contain India will appear .View attachment 596484

Turkey's external debt is 452 BILLION (2020 globalfirepower)
Iran's external debt is 8 BILLION. (2020 globalfirepower)
Russia external debt 540 BILLION (2020 globalfirepower)

On the other hand Iran has the oil reserves and natural gas so doesn't need to borrow as much. Although Iran would have a hard time borrowing from the west, China would always be open for business, especially the last decade or so)

Turkey GDP is 743 BILLION (2018 wikipedia) (US sanctions and worries about economy are factors)
Iran GDP is 446 BILLION (2018 wikipedia) (sanctions and low oil prices are factors)

Turkey Gold Reserves is 107 BILLION (2020 globalfirepower)
Iran Gold Reserves is 120 BILLION (2020 globalfirepower)
Russia Gold Reserves 437 BILLION (2020 globalfirepower)

Anyways my point was valid, Turkey does have lots of foreign debt and according to some economists it is an issue, especially because much of that Debt is in foreign, western currency, whereas Turkish companies borrow and then generate money in Lira, which is on a slippery slope when it comes to value. 10 years ago 1 USD = 1.2 Lira. Now 1 USD = almost 6 Lira

Anyways...

1) Maybe they will saction us more, maybe they won't. I believe, they can't because it will seperate us more and more, Like I explained. But time will tell.

2) What Industry you are talking about? You think your Industry is stronger than Turkey? Ah, good old propaganda. Turkey doesn't have oil, thats the truth. But saying that ''Iran is more industrious'' is just hilarious. Military or civillian, we are much more industrious than your sactioned Iran. And it was your own fault... You can't even reach to necessary markets because of the sections, what Industry do you talking about? Our only problem would be energy. And we will solve it with the gas of Mediterranean... Or you think We have strengthened our navy for nothing?

3) I send you a link about dept per GDP, where was the Turkey in that list? Nowhere. Because we don't have that much dept.

4) Most of the People won't care about politics. Regular people look at to two things when they buy a product. ''Is it quality and how much do I have to pay for it?'' electric car is a new technology. Tesla wasn't a Mercedes neither. Of course it is hard to crack the market with a new brand, but it's nothing unusual. First we will start with local market, and when we start to export with the right price, people will love it... It is the plan anyway. Again time will tell.
 
.
Bandar e Anzali:
Damavand-2, the image is not of good quality, but from this it can be seen that they have completed the construction of the smoke chimneys (in the red circle) and have started to paint a section of the ship in military gray

quTVRUj.png
 
.
What you see around the world is building of ships in peace time and under military politics and competition for funding.

If you truly want to see what countries are capable of go look at US Naval production from 1930-1950 and 1950-1970. Or Nazi Germany naval production from 1930-1944. Imperial Japan Naval production 1930-1947

Any of the major powers today (US, Russia, China) could pump out warships at a astonishing rate if they had unlimited funds, personnel, and a (world) war economy.

Nonetheless, China’s naval production during peace time the last 25 years has been nothing short of impressive.
 
. . . . .
Question:
But had Iran received Standard 2 Ad missiles?
Or is it an Iranian version and should therefore be identified with another name and acronym?
Thank you
The iranians received the rim66 along with the ships that were supplied to it back in the 70s.The rim66 was supplied with the old coffin type launchers with an extension holding one reload.At some point probably in the early 90s the iranians reverse/reengineered the rim66 as the mehrab along with its coffin launcher,tho not the reload capacity.
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2016/02/28/the-shahs-sumners/
 
Last edited:
.
Back
Top Bottom