Iranian Navy | News and Discussions

[Hack-Hook]

حاجی اخر مقاله خودش نوشته که این طرح وعکس از یک شناور دیگس واینکه شما میدونی ایران چی میسازه و دروغ نی خودشونم میدونن مگرنه خودشون جر نمی دادن یه عده هم از سوزش مثل کلاغ غار غار میکنن انقدر بکنن تا دهنشون پاره شه

خوب اولش من هنوز حج نرفته ام(تنها جای مذهبی هم که رفته ام مشهد هستش) بنابر این ترجیح میدم کسی من را با این لقب صدا نکنه
ثانیا اون بخش پایین مقاله اون اول نبود وقتی توی تویتر مسخره کردن مقاله را اونرا اضافه کردند

 

[PeeD]

@PeeD are these the modules you were talking about? How do you know they are AESA and not PESA?

Because the navy presenter explained that each of those dots in the array is a radar on its own. This is the definition of a AESA TRM.
Without that bit of information it could be a PESA phaseshifter with some strange feed system at its back.

The 200km max. range for a 1000 element array perfectly fits cost effective S-band TRM without expensive higher power output ratings.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Can track 12 targets simultaneously ( 3 targets on each side)

are you sure about 12 (3 on each side) that's very limited if we want use the same radar on bigger ships for example an old AN/SPY-1A from more than 40 years ago can track simultaneously 200 on each array and 800 total target

 

[AmirPatriot]

Because the navy presenter explained that each of those dots in the array is a radar on its own. This is the definition of a AESA TRM.
Without that bit of information it could be a PESA phaseshifter with some strange feed system at its back.

The 200km max. range for a 1000 element array perfectly fits cost effective S-band TRM without expensive higher power output ratings.

Thanks for the clarification.

Don't you think 200 km is too short? If Iran intends to make an air-defence destroyer with a navalised Bavar-373 as the air-defence system, surely it should have a longer range? Sayyad-4 has a 200 km range. Also, if this mast is to be the main radar, it should be a multimode radar.

For even longer range naval targets I would suppose that a surface search radar could be used.

 

[PeeD]

Thanks for the clarification.

Don't you think 200 km is too short? If Iran intends to make an air-defence destroyer with a navalised Bavar-373 as the air-defence system, surely it should have a longer range? Sayyad-4 has a 200 km range. Also, if this mast is to be the main radar, it should be a multimode radar.

For even longer range naval targets I would suppose that a surface search radar could be used.

Like the Hafez, Najm-802 and Navid, this S-Band AESAs are not high power output elements but use the most cost effective power rating. 50-100W silicon based TRM is affordable today. Americans play with GaN based modules with several times higher power ratings but that makes no sense for Iran.

200-250km is the traditional engagement range for LRSAM, so the S-band array needs just to do that.
Long range volume search can be done by radars such as the Meraj-4 in a naval (and better L-band) variant providing a detection range of 400-500km. The AESA will basically have the benefit of high update rates to do mid course guidance, engage the right target and already have the next priority engagements on the list. It tracks everything within 200km that could be a threat and additionally can update the SAM (data-link).
Iran is not a military industrial complex driven by profit seeking companies, 50 watt rated silicon TRMs in S-band are sufficient to get what is required.
There is a similar Israeli radar which has a similar range.
And sure, long range surface search will also be done by this multi-role AESA array.

 

[mohsen]

are you sure about 12 (3 on each side) that's very limited if we want use the same radar on bigger ships for example an old AN/SPY-1A from more than 40 years ago can track simultaneously 200 on each array and 800 total target

Probably they meant for missile guidance, as some reports refered to it as fire control radar.

Problem is that the some morons (photographers) thought it's more artistic to shoot at the radar's catalogue from behind! and some other morons (reporters) write about what they prefer or (not) understand!


There is not a single professional reporter in Iran.

 

[skyshadow]

are you sure about 12 (3 on each side) that's very limited if we want use the same radar on bigger ships for example an old AN/SPY-1A from more than 40 years ago can track simultaneously 200 on each array and 800 total target

Eagle Eye can engage 12 track simultaneously. it can find a lot more and Iran does not say the true power of its military radars. and this is the first step, it's possible that the final models are much powerful than this model.

 

[PeeD]

The path forward by the navy looks good now. Many subsystems and technologies are about to be mastered

- Quality steel for the hull is selfmade
- Propulsion, gearbox-shaft and propeller system have been mastered with the Mowj class vessels and gasturbine is on the horizon
- Steering/thurster propulsion is mastered with the Sahand
- Sonar is at least mastered with the Sahand
- General warship equipment to up to 70% was mastered with the Sahand
- Kamad CIWS is about to be mastered with the Sahand. An AK-630 based CIWS supported by the eagle eye AESA is one of the most efficient solutions thinkable. Coupled with a TI optic makes it even more robust.
- Eagle eye S-band AESA will probably be tested on the Dena/Shiraz "airspace intelligence" ship
- CW illumination radar was already demonstrated on the Jamaran for the Merab SAM/ASM and a new version was shown yesterday
- Merab SAM was shown and operationally demonstrated with the Damavand. It will likely initially get replaced with a naval Sayyad-2 on the Khalije Fars ship. A Naval VLS with a Bavar-373 like LRSAM would be the long term goal for a "non-training" variant of the Khalije Fars hull class.
- A phased array volume was presented with the Asr radar but a higher power and lower band variant will be needed in future. A blend between the Asr and an economic AESA Meraj-4 in lower L-band would be a very good solution.
- Noor family AshMs should be very robust by now and their range approach 300km for over-horizon attacks. Any supersonic AshM would probably remain exclusive for the IRGC for the foreseeable future.
- 76mm gun is mastered since the Peykan class and would have a serius CIWS capability if coupled with the eagle eye AESA. It gives the ship a surface attack capability against small vessels and according threatening potential.
- Combat management system has been already shown a while ago and together with the eagle eye radar will offer continuous second by second realtime information about air, sea skimming and surface threats.
- Rocket decoy or ASW rocket thrower has been demonstrated by refitted Jamaran
- Tripple torpedo launcher mastered since Jamaran
- Long range stabilized optical/TI system mastered since Damavand
- Surface search/navigation radar and SATCOM system mastered since Jamaran

The Dena comes next and creates another Mowj class vessel that is basically a not reasonable survivable tool for power projection. With its radar, sonar and optical systems Mowj class ships can perform surveillance of a requested region, show presence and hold nearly all enemy assets at threat of attack via its Noor, Merab and torpedos. However it is not designed to survive a high intensity enemy counter attack.

The Khalije Fars ship is much better equipped for this task, but only a full destroyer variant of it with a long range volume search radar and a 30+ cell SAM VLS plus 10+ Noor family missiles will make it a serious and survivable asset in blue waters.
This will certainly be the goal of the Khalije Fars hull class.
Power projection is something necessary. But such destroyers must come at a reasonable price to make sense.
For the foreseeable future a group of 3 such ships to be dispatched to crisis regions and put the enemy at serious risk, would be the goal.
Since all those mastered technologies are Iranian, we can hope that the price for such destroyers will be reasonable.
A 32-48 cell Bavar-373/Sayyad-3 VLS, 8-16 x Ghadir AshM and 3 Kamad CIWS plus the 76mm gun for close defense would probably fit into that hull.
VLS is not a must have imo. If a Sayyad-2 like solution like on the Khalije Fars can be made to pack ~30 SAMs at much lower cost/space penalty, it's good enough.

The technology path looks good, if they can build such a serious ship within 5 years for under 200 mio

 

[Blue In Green]

The path forward by the navy looks good now. Many subsystems and technologies are about to be mastered

- Quality steel for the hull is selfmade
- Propulsion, gearbox-shaft and propeller system have been mastered with the Mowj class vessels and gasturbine is on the horizon
- Steering/thurster propulsion is mastered with the Sahand
- Sonar is at least mastered with the Sahand
- General warship equipment to up to 70% was mastered with the Sahand
- Kamad CIWS is about to be mastered with the Sahand. An AK-630 based CIWS supported by the eagle eye AESA is one of the most efficient solutions thinkable. Coupled with a TI optic makes it even more robust.
- Eagle eye S-band AESA will probably be tested on the Dena/Shiraz "airspace intelligence" ship
- CW illumination radar was already demonstrated on the Jamaran for the Merab SAM/ASM and a new version was shown yesterday
- Merab SAM was shown and operationally demonstrated with the Damavand. It will likely initially get replaced with a naval Sayyad-2 on the Khalije Fars ship. A Naval VLS with a Bavar-373 like LRSAM would be the long term goal for a "non-training" variant of the Khalije Fars hull class.
- A phased array volume was presented with the Asr radar but a higher power and lower band variant will be needed in future. A blend between the Asr and an economic AESA Meraj-4 in lower L-band would be a very good solution.
- Noor family AshMs should be very robust by now and their range approach 300km for over-horizon attacks. Any supersonic AshM would probably remain exclusive for the IRGC for the foreseeable future.
- 76mm gun is mastered since the Peykan class and would have a serius CIWS capability if coupled with the eagle eye AESA. It gives the ship a surface attack capability against small vessels and according threatening potential.
- Combat management system has been already shown a while ago and together with the eagle eye radar will offer continuous second by second realtime information about air, sea skimming and surface threats.
- Rocket decoy or ASW rocket thrower has been demonstrated by refitted Jamaran
- Tripple torpedo launcher mastered since Jamaran
- Long range stabilized optical/TI system mastered since Damavand
- Surface search/navigation radar and SATCOM system mastered since Jamaran

The Dena comes next and creates another Mowj class vessel that is basically a not reasonable survivable tool for power projection. With its radar, sonar and optical systems Mowj class ships can perform surveillance of a requested region, show presence and hold nearly all enemy assets at threat of attack via its Noor, Merab and torpedos. However it is not designed to survive a high intensity enemy counter attack.

The Khalije Fars ship is much better equipped for this task, but only a full destroyer variant of it with a long range volume search radar and a 30+ cell SAM VLS plus 10+ Noor family missiles will make it a serious and survivable asset in blue waters.
This will certainly be the goal of the Khalije Fars hull class.
Power projection is something necessary. But such destroyers must come at a reasonable price to make sense.
For the foreseeable future a group of 3 such ships to be dispatched to crisis regions and put the enemy at serious risk, would be the goal.
Since all those mastered technologies are Iranian, we can hope that the price for such destroyers will be reasonable.
A 32-48 cell Bavar-373/Sayyad-3 VLS, 8-16 x Ghadir AshM and 3 Kamad CIWS plus the 76mm gun for close defense would probably fit into that hull.
VLS is not a must have imo. If a Sayyad-2 like solution like on the Khalije Fars can be made to pack ~30 SAMs at much lower cost/space penalty, it's good enough.

The technology path looks good, if they can build such a serious ship within 5 years for under 200 mio

What's your thoughts on the current size of the Iranian Naval fleet?

 

[sahureka2]

[QUOTE = "PeeD, post: 11007267, membro: 164846"] Il percorso in avanti della marina sembra buono ora. Molti sottosistemi e tecnologie stanno per essere controllati

- L'acciaio di qualità per lo scafo è auto-costruito
- Il sistema di propulsione, trasmissione-albero e elica sono stati controllati con le navi della classe Mowj e la gasturbina è all'orizzonte
- La propulsione dello sterzo / thurster è padroneggiata con il Sahand
- Il sonar è almeno padroneggiato con il Sahand
- L'attrezzatura generale da guerra fino al 70% è stata gestita con il Sahand
- Kamad CIWS sta per essere dominato con il Sahand. Un CIW basato su AK-630 supportato dall'aquila dell'aquila AESA è una delle soluzioni più efficienti pensabili. Accoppiato con un ottica TI lo rende ancora più robusto.
- L'AESA Eagle S-band verrà probabilmente testato sulla nave Dena / Shiraz "airspace intelligence"
- Il radar di illuminazione CW era già stato dimostrato sulla Jamaran per il Merab SAM / ASM e una nuova versione è stata mostrata ieri
- Merab SAM è stato mostrato e operativamente dimostrato con il Damavand. Probabilmente inizialmente verrà sostituito con un Sayyad-2 navale sulla nave Khalije Fars. Un VLS navale con un Bavar-373 come LRSAM sarebbe l'obiettivo a lungo termine per una variante di "non allenamento" della classe dello scafo di Khalije Fars.
- Un volume di array in fase è stato presentato con il radar Asr ma in futuro sarà necessaria una maggiore potenza e una variante di banda inferiore. Una miscela tra l'Asr e un economico AESA Meraj-4 nella banda L inferiore sarebbe un'ottima soluzione.
- Gli AshM della famiglia Noor dovrebbero essere molto robusti ormai e il loro raggio d'azione si avvicina a 300 km per gli attacchi sopra l'orizzonte. Qualunque AshM supersonico rimarrebbe probabilmente esclusivo per l'IRGC nel prossimo futuro.
- La pistola da 76 mm è padroneggiata sin dalla classe Peykan e avrebbe una seriosa capacità CIWS se accoppiata all'aquila AESA. Fornisce alla nave una capacità di attacco in superficie contro le piccole navi e in base a potenziali minacce.
- Il sistema di gestione dei combattimenti è già stato mostrato qualche tempo fa e insieme al radar ad occhio di aquila offrirà informazioni continue in tempo reale secondo secondo in tempo reale su aria, mare e minacce superficiali.
- L'esca di razzi o il lanciarazzi ASW sono stati dimostrati da Jamaran riparato
- Lanciatore di siluri Tripple masterizzato da Jamaran
- Sistema ottico / TI stabilizzato a lungo raggio controllato da Damavand
- Ricerca di superficie / radar di navigazione e sistema SATCOM gestiti da Jamaran

La Dena viene dopo e crea un'altra nave della classe Mowj che è fondamentalmente uno strumento non ragionevole e sostenibile per la proiezione di potenza. Con il suo radar, il sonar e i sistemi ottici, le navi della classe Mowj possono eseguire la sorveglianza di una regione richiesta, mostrare la presenza e contenere quasi tutte le risorse nemiche a rischio di attacco tramite Noor, Merab e siluri. Tuttavia non è progettato per sopravvivere ad un contrattacco nemico ad alta intensità.

La nave Khalije Fars è molto meglio equipaggiata per questo compito, ma solo una completa variante del distruttore con un radar di ricerca del volume a lungo raggio e un 30+ SAM VLS a celle più 10+ missili della famiglia Noor lo renderanno una risorsa seria e sopravvivibile in blu acque.
Questo sarà certamente l'obiettivo della classe dello scafo di Khalije Fars.
La proiezione di potenza è qualcosa di necessario. Ma questi cacciatorpedini devono arrivare a un prezzo ragionevole per avere un senso.
Per il prossimo futuro, un gruppo di 3 di tali navi da inviare in regioni di crisi e metterebbe il nemico a serio rischio, sarebbe l'obiettivo.
Dal momento che tutte queste tecnologie padroneggiate sono iraniane, possiamo sperare che il prezzo per tali cacciatorpedinieri sia ragionevole.
A 32-48 celle Bavar-373 / Sayyad-3 VLS, 8-16 x Ghadir AshM e 3 Kamad CIWS più il cannone da 76 mm per difesa ravvicinata si sarebbero probabilmente adattati allo scafo.
VLS non è un must imo. Se una soluzione simile a Sayyad-2 come sul Khalije Fars può essere fatta per comprimere ~ 30 SAM a un costo molto più basso / spazio, è abbastanza buono.

Il percorso tecnologico sembra buono, se possono costruire una nave così seria entro 5 anni per meno di 200 milioni [/ QUOTE]

ma almeno per il Sahand 74, dalle foto pubblicate, i motori di propulsione diesel marini sono di produzione straniera, mod "Caterpillar type 3516 ", questo fa pensare che il motore nazionale debba ancora completare i test, quindi non può essere considerato ma al 100% affidabile da installare sul Sahand

Caterpillar type 3516

 

[scythian500]

Thanks for the clarification.

Don't you think 200 km is too short? If Iran intends to make an air-defence destroyer with a navalised Bavar-373 as the air-defence system, surely it should have a longer range? Sayyad-4 has a 200 km range. Also, if this mast is to be the main radar, it should be a multimode radar.

For even longer range naval targets I would suppose that a surface search radar could be used.

It could be used as the fire control radar for different armaments on board as it is of S band type. I think there would be two scenarios. One Asr II AESA radar which is probably under development with a range between 300 to 400 km and will act as early warning/aerial and surface scanning and one Eagle eye AESA S band for fire control purposes.. or there is a chance the eagle eye is the main multi-function radar and the detection range is greater than this but engagement range is 200 km due to known reasons.

Of two scenarios, first option is more probable.. as Farsnews said Eagle eye would be similar to Thales APAR which is a little weaker than eagle eye and still is paired with an SMART-L with an instrumental range of +400 km

 

[WinterNights]

So has it actually been confirmed the range is 200km?
the specifications provided so far are not as good as I hoped. Not just range but detection and targeting. Other naval S-band AESA radars I have seen can track tens/hundreds times more. But I suppose this radar and it's specifications are good enough for mowj size frigates. Let's not forget, they're only around 1200tons!

Do not get me wrong, this is a good start! Sometimes I feel as Iranians, we can be a little demanding in our desires and forget just how difficult/impressive some of these Iranian achievements are. Who thought 10 years ago that today we would be making so many AESA type radars? I am sure Iran's defence industry knows what it's doing much better than we do here and there's a reason this radar has the specifications it has. I am sure in near future, we'll also see much more powerful ones.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Probably they meant for missile guidance, as some reports refered to it as fire control radar.

Problem is that the some morons (photographers) thought it's more artistic to shoot at the radar's catalogue from behind! and some other morons (reporters) write about what they prefer or (not) understand!


There is not a single professional reporter in Iran.

Eagle Eye can engage 12 track simultaneously. it can find a lot more and Iran does not say the true power of its military radars. and this is the first step, it's possible that the final models are much powerful than this model.

each of those cell can act as a separate radar , so this radar can tr ck less less than number of cells on each side is strange (if its AESA and even pesa must be able to track at least the numbers of the arrays ) , it more and more look like the reporter just put some numbers there to make a cute article

 

[scythian500]

Caterpillar type 3516

No, you are wrong my friend... Sahand Frigate uses 4 DESA Bonyan 4.0 Iranian engines each can produce 5000 hp (combined power of 20000 hp).

You can not reach even half of Sahand's max speed of 34 knots (64 km/h) with four CAT 3516B engines. Simply because each CAT 3516B engines can produce a max of 2000 hp.

So, my guess would be that this 2000 hp CAT engine is used for electricity generation.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/...-lesser-regulated-non-regulated/18398166.html

So has it actually been confirmed the range is 200km?

No, there is info that says it is similar to THALES APAR system. So it is not a confirmed number. Even if 200 km is confirmed for eagle eye, it still is a good number comparing to modern Danish, German and Dutch frigates which use THALES APAR. Actually, European warships like German Sachsen class are specifically designed to be air defense platforms and they use APAR which has an even lower range than Iranian Eagle Eye. So I think it is more enough for sometime..

 

[TheImmortal]

Tracking and targeting 12 targets is plenty for a ship the size of Mowj. It doesn’t even have the firepower (without reloading) to engage 12 targets simultaneously. So I am not sure what the fuss is about.

Also wouldn’t there be a difference between detecting a ship at sea vs an aircraft due to curvature of the earth? How far (realistically) can a ship engage another ship using its F&C radar?