Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[skyshadow]

Iran is building 3 new missiles.

 

[Aramagedon]

Iran is building 3 new missiles.

Do you have any source?

 

[SubWater]

Iran is building 3 new missiles.

give us more info about them.
my prediction:
first missile: is from Fateh family with around 1250 km range.(Solid)
second missile: is from Khoramshar family with more length to extend its range.(liquid)
third missile: new family of missiles with unknown range and fuel

 

[yavar]

For the first time, the type of anti ship missiles which Hezbollah used back in 2006 discussed.
Though indirectly and through calling them as Israeli findings:
first one was Korean made Silkworm (range extended by Iran to 120km) and the second one was Kowsar.

Rasam documentary episode 5:
قسمت ۵ - رسام - 04 اردیبهشت 1398

 

[skyshadow]

Do you have any source?

give us more info about them.
my prediction:
first missile: is from Fateh family with around 1250 km range.(Solid)
second missile: is from Khoramshar family with more length to extend its range.(liquid)
third missile: new family of missiles with unknown range and fuel

ok. no they are not ballistic missile they are built in army.

http://defapress.ir/fa/news/343587/بهره-گیری-۳-موشک-ضدزره-هواپایه-در-هوانیروز-ارتش

first missile is Heydar missile: it is an air to ground missile and its fire and forget type, with a range of more than 8 kilometers and the ability to install a variety of search systems for use in different weather conditions for anti _ armored purposes, ground equipment, and it can be used for hit crowd gathering location as an pin point missile and armor penetration power of it, is one and a half meters.

second missile is Ghamar'e bani hashem: Ghamar'e bani hashem missile is an air-to-air missile, and air-to-ground missile with a range of more than 8 kilometers and i can make a luck on its target before and after firing. and it has the ability to install a variety of search systems for use in different weather conditions for anti _ armored purposes, ground equipment, and it can be used for hit crowd gathering location as a pin point missile.

third missile is airborne Dehlaviye anti-tank missile: the missile is the air-to-ground missile with laser guidance and a range of more than 8 kilometers, and it has low weight for anti_armored purposes, it is a pin point missile with a penetration of one meter and twenty centimeters.

The Dehlaviye rocket had previously been ground-based, now its upgraded to be airborne.

The missiles are now undergoing preliminary tests and will soon be mass-produced and installed on 209 helicopters.

 

[PeeD]

A cost effectiveness approach by the Artesh SSJ.

Heydar has the goal to create a large calibre fire and forget missile for long ranges. Seeker is from Sadid missiles and the larger calibre enables a penetration power that should be effective against any tank, approaching at 45 degrees and above. Generally the heavy warhead is also effective against soft ground targets. What was shown is a crude mock up.

Ghamar e bani hashem is apparently a modification of the Shahab Sagheb/Crotale ground attack mod. Now it is optimized for its air to ground role instead of ground to air.
Diameter is limited to make it effective against modern tanks but it's range performance of 10km makes it effective to strike point targets.
Likely that old Crotale missiles will be used for it instead of entirely new missiles. Seeker is again from IRGCs Sadid series to increase cost-effectiveness. It is a kind of special purpose weapon for stand-off attacks of high value targets. That all has already been done by the IRGC which used old Sidewinders for this role, giving it a second life.

Dehlaviye/Kornet is the logical and most cost-effective missile here. The existing arsenal is large and the guidance system easy for Iran and already proven. It will replace the TOW while increasing range to 6km from hardly 4km.
The laser beam riding guidance is cheap and there is no AT-6 --- AT-16 series competing with it like in Russia.
So like the TOW ground ATGM and helicopters use a common missile from a common arsenal. Since it is not fire and forget, it would be used against the bulk of targets, instead of the heavier more expensive Heydar. Two Heydars and 8 Dehalviye would be the heavy load for future Cobras.

So here is the conclusion:
Dehlaviye as the better TOW, the lower end of guided missiles: 6km non-fire-and-forget

Heydar as high-end heavy anti armour missile: 8km and fire and forget.

GBH as special purpose stand-off missile for higher value soft ground targets and slow air targets: 10km and fire and forget.

What is missing is a short range laser guided rocket for low-end unarmoured targets. But this might not be cost-effective at this point in time.

 

[Mithridates]

A cost effectiveness approach by the Artesh SSJ.

Heydar has the goal to create a large calibre fire and forget missile for long ranges. Seeker is from Sadid missiles and the larger calibre enables a penetration power that should be effective against any tank, approaching at 45 degrees and above. Generally the heavy warhead is also effective against soft ground targets. What was shown is a crude mock up.

Ghamar e bani hashem is apparently a modification of the Shahab Sagheb/Crotale ground attack mod. Now it is optimized for its air to ground role instead of ground to air.
Diameter is limited to make it effective against modern tanks but it's range performance of 10km makes it effective to strike point targets.
Likely that old Crotale missiles will be used for it instead of entirely new missiles. Seeker is again from IRGCs Sadid series to increase cost-effectiveness. It is a kind of special purpose weapon for stand-off attacks of high value targets. That all has already been done by the IRGC which used old Sidewinders for this role, giving it a second life.

Dehlaviye/Kornet is the logical and most cost-effective missile here. The existing arsenal is large and the guidance system easy for Iran and already proven. It will replace the TOW while increasing range to 6km from hardly 4km.
The laser beam riding guidance is cheap and there is no AT-6 --- AT-16 series competing with it like in Russia.
So like the TOW ground ATGM and helicopters use a common missile from a common arsenal. Since it is not fire and forget, it would be used against the bulk of targets, instead of the heavier more expensive Heydar. Two Heydars and 8 Dehalviye would be the heavy load for future Cobras.

So here is the conclusion:
Dehlaviye as the better TOW, the lower end of guided missiles: 6km non-fire-and-forget

Heydar as high-end heavy anti armour missile: 8km and fire and forget.

GBH as special purpose stand-off missile for higher value soft ground targets and slow air targets: 10km and fire and forget.

What is missing is a short range laser guided rocket for low-end unarmoured targets. But this might not be cost-effective at this point in time.

GBH looks like a sidewinder rather than crotale:
shafaq: derivated crotale missile

GBH:

to me it seems like shafaq speed was not suitable for A2G roles so they moved toward slower missiles.

GBH could be an effective weapon against helicopters and slow planes like A-10.

 

[VEVAK]

A cost effectiveness approach by the Artesh SSJ.

Heydar has the goal to create a large calibre fire and forget missile for long ranges. Seeker is from Sadid missiles and the larger calibre enables a penetration power that should be effective against any tank, approaching at 45 degrees and above. Generally the heavy warhead is also effective against soft ground targets. What was shown is a crude mock up.

Ghamar e bani hashem is apparently a modification of the Shahab Sagheb/Crotale ground attack mod. Now it is optimized for its air to ground role instead of ground to air.
Diameter is limited to make it effective against modern tanks but it's range performance of 10km makes it effective to strike point targets.
Likely that old Crotale missiles will be used for it instead of entirely new missiles. Seeker is again from IRGCs Sadid series to increase cost-effectiveness. It is a kind of special purpose weapon for stand-off attacks of high value targets. That all has already been done by the IRGC which used old Sidewinders for this role, giving it a second life.

Dehlaviye/Kornet is the logical and most cost-effective missile here. The existing arsenal is large and the guidance system easy for Iran and already proven. It will replace the TOW while increasing range to 6km from hardly 4km.
The laser beam riding guidance is cheap and there is no AT-6 --- AT-16 series competing with it like in Russia.
So like the TOW ground ATGM and helicopters use a common missile from a common arsenal. Since it is not fire and forget, it would be used against the bulk of targets, instead of the heavier more expensive Heydar. Two Heydars and 8 Dehalviye would be the heavy load for future Cobras.

So here is the conclusion:
Dehlaviye as the better TOW, the lower end of guided missiles: 6km non-fire-and-forget

Heydar as high-end heavy anti armour missile: 8km and fire and forget.

GBH as special purpose stand-off missile for higher value soft ground targets and slow air targets: 10km and fire and forget.

What is missing is a short range laser guided rocket for low-end unarmoured targets. But this might not be cost-effective at this point in time.

Got to say I'm a bit more skeptical!
The Haydar doesn't have any visible moving surfaces that I can see for guidance and with that flat nose they'll either need a good size control surfaces for the guidance control or a TVC (which wouldn't make much sense due to cost & added weight) regardless neither of which the missile currently has. (At least not one that I could see to have a PGM capability....)

Top that off for a missile the size and diameter I believe they should have just gone for a missile powered by Microjet engines preferably one with foldable wings similar to US SDB (For increased glide capability and maneuverability when needed) on a missile with a speed of ~500kph and enough fuel for ~5min flight with a max range of ~50km (effective range of ~40km) & 20-40lb warhead a missile that can be controlled by the co pilot till it gets to within visible lock on range of the target (At least to start with and later improved upon...)

Clearly our Helo's are NOT going to be as good as U.S. Helo's but we have the technology to build weapons for our platforms that are less conventional but can give our guys an edge and keep the limited air assets we have at a safer distance.

I also believe both the Artesh and the IRGC need to completely remove the use of unguided rockets on all their cobra's.... Even for anti terrorist operations why risk a multi million usd platform getting downed by a RPG or a stinger simply because you wanted to save a few hundred bucks

 

[skyshadow]

when a Khalij Fars anti ship ballistic missile fired it needs to see you in order to target you and you need to detect it before it hits you in order to intercept it so you need to turn your radars on at all time until interception but at the same time a Hormuz-1 and -2 the world’s first anti-radiation ballistic missiles are fired at you, in order to target you Hormuz 1_2 missiles needs your radars to be on until it hits you so if you want to neutralize them you need to turn all of your radars off so that the anti-radiation ballistic missiles can not find you but if you turn all of your radars off how you want to intercept Khalij Fars anti ship ballistic missile that is coming at you at the speed of at least mach 3_4 ? you need your radars on to see it and intercept it but if you do that than what are you going to do with anti-radiation ballistic missile that is coming for you at even grater speed than Khalij Fars anti ship ballistic missile at least mach 5_6? perfect irony.



Khalij Fars anti ship ballistic missile

Hormuz-1 and -2 the world’s first anti-radiation ballistic missiles

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/sink-carriers-how-iran-could-go-war-against-us-navy-54022

 

[PeeD]

@Mithridates

I think in the first step they equipped the Crotale missile with a seeker for A-G capability and now they have modified the control surfaces for improved A-G role performance. The Sidewinder is thinner.

I suspect that the old batch FM-80 from China are now deemed too low quality for use as short range SAM. High-G maneuver would put them at risk of destruction.
Hence they were selected as long range missiles for A-G role, instead of scrapping. A perfect low cost SSJ project and same as IRGC Sidewinders-to-AGM project.

Got to say I'm a bit more skeptical!
The Haydar doesn't have any visible moving surfaces that I can see for guidance and with that flat nose they'll either need a good size control surfaces for the guidance control or a TVC (which wouldn't make much sense due to cost & added weight) regardless neither of which the missile currently has. (At least not one that I could see to have a PGM capability....)

Sure, the Heydar mock-up looks very early in development. But there is a credible need for a high penetration power Maverick-like tandem HEAT ATGM for use against things like Abrams.
8km is sufficient, optics and detection systems can't go much beyond that on the Cobras.

The GBH missile at 10km range is for a similar scenario as performed by Apaches against Iraq at the start of the Gulf war: Raiding high value assets behind enemy lines and take them out from long distance.
Iran is lucky that its optics are now capable to support such long range missiles at day and night, a key enabler.
Now the non-TOW Corbas must be upgraded first with the Kornet, GBH and later Heydar if ready.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

@Mithridates

I think in the first step they equipped the Crotale missile with a seeker for A-G capability and now they have modified the control surfaces for improved A-G role performance. The Sidewinder is thinner.

I suspect that the old batch FM-80 from China are now deemed too low quality for use as short range SAM. High-G maneuver would put them at risk of destruction.
Hence they were selected as long range missiles for A-G role, instead of scrapping. A perfect low cost SSJ project and same as IRGC Sidewinders-to-AGM project.



Sure, the Heydar mock-up looks very early in development. But there is a credible need for a high penetration power Maverick-like tandem HEAT ATGM for use against things like Abrams.
8km is sufficient, optics and detection systems can't go much beyond that on the Cobras.

The GBH missile at 10km range is for a similar scenario as performed by Apaches against Iraq at the start of the Gulf war: Raiding high value assets behind enemy lines and take them out from long distance.
Iran is lucky that its optics are now capable to support such long range missiles at day and night, a key enabler.
Now the non-TOW Corbas must be upgraded first with the Kornet, GBH and later Heydar if ready.

IRIAA has had actual battlefield experience with long range missiles when they mounted Maverick missiles on Ah-1J during the Iran-Iraq war. It would make sense for them to develop long range missiles more suitable for the Cobra fleet.

 

[skyshadow]

Hellfire missile in size VS Heydar missile in size.

 

[aryobarzan]

Hellfire missile in size VS Heydar missile in size.

I was thinking...if Heydar has a fire and forget seeker then can it be totally independent of the helo that is carrying it...if the answer is yes then that can practically make any type of helicopter that Iran has and can carry it ( simple hard point and launcher rail) into a gunship..all the helicopter pilot has to do is fly toward the target and with a simple optical device/display Id the target (8 km away) and wait for Heydar to search and lock on the target and then fire (call it Heydar conversion kit).......just a brain fart..lol

 

[skyshadow]

I was thinking...if Heydar has a fire and forget seeker then can it be totally independent of the helo that is carrying it...if the answer is yes then that can practically make any type of helicopter that Iran has and can carry it ( simple hard point and launcher rail) into a gunship..all the helicopter pilot has to do is fly toward the target and with a simple optical device/display Id the target (8 km away) and wait for Heydar to search and lock on the target and then fire (call it Heydar conversion kit).......just a brain fart..lol

yes its fire and forget type, good points you said there, agreed and its almost twice as big than Hellfire.

 

[PeeD]

There is one problem with that idea: the seeker sensor is most certainly a uncooled one and has thus only a effective detection range of 2-4km.
For a long range shot, a data-link for lock-on after launch is needed.
What is also necessary is a a sight system that can support identification of targets at 8km, a potent cooled sensor.