Iranian military engine development news and updates

[Arian]

He is tweeting there are two operational turbofan egines not revealed yet
curious if one of them is comparable to AL-31/AL-41 as brother @yavar once mentioned....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1382692360115617796

It's good to know that Iran has reverse-engineered the engine of Kh-55 missile. Soumar is a strategic weapon at our disposal.

 

[Hack-Hook]

He is tweeting there are two operational turbofan egines not revealed yet
curious if one of them is comparable to AL-31/AL-41 as brother @yavar once mentioned....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1382692360115617796

those two engine are not in class of AL-31 AL-41 .
he say that they have built a turbofan engine for Tolue 4 and reverse engineered MSICH R95-300
(wekk I don't knew why those two engine would be in the same class but if its true then we can say we have some good engines for our drones and cruise missiles.
only I hope they made them of a more resilient material compared to the originals by the way if they managed to build a Turbofan variant of Tuloe-4 I wonder if Iran also have plan of a turbofan variant of the OWJ

 

[yavar]

He is tweeting there are two operational turbofan egines not revealed yet
curious if one of them is comparable to AL-31

No he's talking about for long range strategic nuclear missiles

AL-31 is still under development in sense of quality of Russian engine ( quality material)

 

[Draco.IMF]

AL-31 is still under development in sense of quality of Russian engine ( quality material)

on which version of the AL-31?

Because AL-31F (basic model) is nearly 40 years old, and there are newer models (early 2000s) but they are only operated by China/Russia afaik

I think the venezuelan SU-30MKV are operating the basic model (AL-31F)

Back than there were no (or not as developed as today) computers, CAD, nanotechnology, 3D printers,... and Iran is still struggling with the quality with todays technology available?

 

[yavar]

Because AL-31F (basic model) is nearly 40 years old, and there are newer models (early 2000s) but they are only operated by China/Russia afaik

no the .. one i an not allowed to say as we are in finilstion contract with russia

Back than there were no (or not as developed as today) computers, CAD, nanotechnology, 3D printers,... and Iran is still struggling with the quality with todays technology available?

all of these technology which you mentioned requirement manufacturing , which we have
but when it comes to quality Raw material Russian standard is are the best in world, in some sectors jet engine or turbine we are head of Russia but this particular engine they are head
so we have caching up to do...

 

[TheImmortal]

on which version of the AL-31?

Because AL-31F (basic model) is nearly 40 years old, and there are newer models (early 2000s) but they are only operated by China/Russia afaik

I think the venezuelan SU-30MKV are operating the basic model (AL-31F)

Back than there were no (or not as developed as today) computers, CAD, nanotechnology, 3D printers,... and Iran is still struggling with the quality with todays technology available?

Bro if Iran could even make basic AL-31 it would be a breakthrough

Right now it’s doubtful if Iran can make RD-33.

Time will tell, they claim they have engines in development so I will give them benefit of doubt for now.

 

[Stryker1982]

Bro if Iran could even make basic AL-31 it would be a breakthrough

Right now it’s doubtful if Iran can make RD-33.

Time will tell, they claim they have engines in development so I will give them benefit of doubt for now.

Indeed, AL-31 would be huge for Iran. I mean, @Draco.IMF try to keep in mind, Iran doesn't have a lot of experienced engineers in aircraft development, and a well developed and diverse supply chain in this sector. By the time AL-31 was developed, Russia had at least 40 years of aeronautical experience.

I do not think we are far away from these breakthroughs either.

 

[TheImmortal]

Indeed, AL-31 would be huge for Iran. I mean, @Draco.IMF try to keep in mind, Iran doesn't have a lot of experienced engineers in aircraft development, and a well developed and diverse supply chain in this sector. By the time AL-31 was developed, Russia had at least 40 years of aeronautical experience.

I do not think we are far away from these breakthroughs either.

Not to mention Nazi scientists (not as many as US, but still)

 

[Draco.IMF]

موتور مینی توربوجت رانش1 این موتور دارای قابلیت استفاده در سامانه‌های پهپادی، هواپیما‌های سبک تک‌نفره، قایق‌های بدون سرنشین و انواع سامانه‌های موشکی به‌عنوان موتور پیشران و راه‌اندازی موتور‌های اصلی هواپیماست

This engine can be used in drone systems, single-seater light aircraft, drones and various missile systems as the propulsion engine and start-up of the main aircraft engines.

 

[EvilWesteners]

It's good to know that Iran has reverse-engineered the engine of Kh-55 missile. Soumar is a strategic weapon at our disposal.

Iran quickly (relatively) developed the kh-55 equivalent (after a few mishaps). Some suggest that it got help, hint, hint. The aft turbofan is the same project Iran has started back in 1977, namely GE CF700 Dassault Falcon 20, with quite a bit of help from France on the "French assumption" that Iran may buy (in the future) Dassault Mirage 4000.

CF700 proved to be a great engine, very good with fuel, easy to maintain, but just fizzled out because Honeywell offered great competition.

 

[EvilWesteners]

Bro if Iran could even make basic AL-31 it would be a breakthrough

Right now it’s doubtful if Iran can make RD-33.

Time will tell, they claim they have engines in development so I will give them benefit of doubt for now.

I have worked on these engines most of my adult life. Trust me, gas turbine engines design and manufacturing is an immensely complex process. Raw materials, yet very very important. Coating, just as important. Sequencing. A wide range of technical issues need to be resolved.

What is important is that reliability must be as important as performance.

Iran (in my humble opinion) cannot design or build AL31-F anytime soon. Even China has been getting stuck in the mud, especially with how much money they spent to reverse engineer CFM-56 which they got before embargo.

It is harder than people know.

But Iran can (as I have mentioned before), go for a more logical choice, which is a 3+ gen turbojet.

 

[aryobarzan]

I have worked on these engines most of my adult like. Trust me, gas turbine engines design and manufacturing is an immensely complex process. Raw materials, yet very very important. Coating, just as important. Sequencing. A wide range of technical issues need to be resolved.

What is important is that reliability must be as important as performance.

Iran (in my humble opinion) cannot design or build AL31-F anytime soon. Even China has been getting stuck in the mud, especially with how much money they spent to reverse engineer CFM-56 which they got before embargo.

It is harder than people know.

But Iran can (as I have mentioned before), go for a more logical choice, which is a 3+ gen turbojet.

Not being an engine expert can I ask:
In terms of R&D work needed for an engine such as AL-31. Can you give an % estimate of effort required for any of the following domains : (If I missed an effort please add).

1- High level and detail design work of the engine itself

2- Material research of the engine (what alloys are needed ..etc)

3- Production of said materials (single crystals, alloys etc)

4- Engine support components (fuel pumps, electronic ..etc)

5- Engine assembly and test.

I am trying the wrap my head around what is it that makes reverse eng of this AL=31 so difficult....and I have no doubt about what so said about it being a very complex process.

 

[sanel1412]

Not being an engine expert can I ask:
In terms of R&D work needed for an engine such as AL-31. Can you give an % estimate of effort required for any of the following domains : (If I missed an effort please add).

1- High level and detail design work of the engine itself

2- Material research of the engine (what alloys are needed ..etc)

3- Production of said materials (single crystals, alloys etc)

4- Engine support components (fuel pumps, electronic ..etc)

5- Engine assembly and test.

I am trying the wrap my head around what is it that makes reverse eng of this AL=31 so difficult....and I have no doubt about what so said about it being a very complex process.

AL-31 is result of decades of aeronautical,metalurgy....etc experience,you can reverse engeenering design but material specification,metalurgy process...also machinery that do these things....only few countries(3..or at best 4) in the world can,without external help,only on its own produce engines like AL-31. I would not say Iran cant do it,simple because it surprised me many times,but it makes a lot of sence to go first with some older engine,but we will see...Any wayjust look what engines China produced 10 yrs ago..just 10-15 yrs ago their best aircraft produced in China was Mig 21 knock of....20 yrs ago 70% of their fleet was mig 19 and Mig 21 derivates and only BVR missile was R27....while Iran already had 30 yrs experience with F14...AIM 54...Point is,once they made technological brakethrough they advanced very fast,but they didnt jump from to 4gen turbo fan...after they produced J-6 and J-7

 

[PeeD]

I have worked on these engines most of my adult like. Trust me, gas turbine engines design and manufacturing is an immensely complex process. Raw materials, yet very very important. Coating, just as important. Sequencing. A wide range of technical issues need to be resolved.

What is important is that reliability must be as important as performance.

Iran (in my humble opinion) cannot design or build AL31-F anytime soon. Even China has been getting stuck in the mud, especially with how much money they spent to reverse engineer CFM-56 which they got before embargo.

It is harder than people know.

But Iran can (as I have mentioned before), go for a more logical choice, which is a 3+ gen turbojet.

Material wise Iran is capable to do it, see MAPNA turbines.

Materials is half of the story.

Design wise I agree, a complete re-design is necessary which is extremely difficult.

 

[TheImmortal]

Iran (in my humble opinion) cannot design or build AL31-F anytime soon. Even China has been getting stuck in the mud, especially with how much money they spent to reverse engineer CFM-56 which they got before embargo.

That is likely true. But what Iran has over China is Ingenuity and fresh ideas. China for all its power (education base, money, espionage) at the end of the day copies the ideas of other nations using various levers of coercion.

If Iran had 1/4 of the clout and economic resources China had it would dominate the world. Right now it has spread across the entire Middle East while under the worst sanctions in human history and 4 major power groups acting against (EU, US, Arabs and Israel, and Russia/China) yes last one is surprising but Russia and China have been working with the West to mitigate Iran’s reach for quite some time.

Now imagine an Iran that has 100B military budget, 3-4T economy, and access to many of the worlds technologies and equipment.....quite scary. Which is why this sanctions machine will never be unraveled.