Iranian Chill Thread

[Esfand]

Why can't I sent Private Message?!!?!?!?!?

No need to be worry about it, you will became a full member very soon by posting a few more posts

Ahh, being a full member feels sooo good. Guys, in order to celebrate that we are full members, I suggest we make one single, large private discussion and continue everything there.

 

[rmi5]

Ahh, being a full member feels sooo good. Guys, in order to celebrate that we are full members, I suggest we make one single, large private discussion and continue everything there.

 

[INDIC]

Dadabhai Naoroji, he was a Parsi, he was the leader of Indian National Congress in early years, he is termed as "Grand Old Man of India".

 

[Azizam]

Muslim countries have no sense of peaceful coexistence of different religion believers. Malaysia, Iran, Saudi, ... all of them are almost the same in this regard. only , newly independent Turkic countries of Central Asia, and Azerbaijan are good in being religious tolerant. and also Turkey in some extent is religious tolerant. in which, it is not surprising, since these countries have been secular countries for a very long time. Among Arab countries, I have only found Tunisians in general, not all of them, to be religion tolerable. Some Pakistanis are also very open minded, but their problem is that they have some ultra fanatic people amongst themselves as well. Rest of the muslim countries are intolerable toward non-muslims and other faiths and they are not different from each other in this regard
If you live in a more secular and moderate country, you would care less about religions

Above all Muslim majority countries, Kazakhstan is doing impressively well in all social indicators especially gender equality. From my personal experience, most liberal Muslims I've met are Iranians but I am not sure whether they can be called Muslims. As for South Asian Muslims, one thing I noticed that the majority of religious people including the ones from good families tend to imitate Arabs in every way.

Whatever it is I would love to visit Kazakhstan (backpacking) one day because of its natural beauty that is preserved because of low population density.

 

[Serpentine]

Muslim countries have no sense of peaceful coexistence of different religion believers. Malaysia, Iran, Saudi, ... all of them are almost the same in this regard. only , newly independent Turkic countries of Central Asia, and Azerbaijan are good in being religious tolerant. and also Turkey in some extent is religious tolerant. in which, it is not surprising, since these countries have been secular countries for a very long time. Among Arab countries, I have only found Tunisians in general, not all of them, to be religion tolerable. Some Pakistanis are also very open minded, but their problem is that they have some ultra fanatic people amongst themselves as well. Rest of the muslim countries are intolerable toward non-muslims and other faiths and they are not different from each other in this regard
If you live in a more secular and moderate country, you would care less about religions

First define 'intolerant'. Are you talking about the ruling system or tolerance among people?

About the people, Iranians are one of the most tolerant people in ME towards other religious groups. I have never seen a Jew, Christian, Muslims or Zoroastrians harass each other because of religion.

I won't talk about the ruling system because it requires a long discussion and I'm not in the mood really. But about regular people, it's like what I said.

on a side note, thugs exist in every country. You may be harassed because of your religion in any part of the world, including the first world ones, but they are called exceptions, not a common thing. So naturally, we don't include thugs in our calculations.

 

[rmi5]

First define 'intolerant'. Are you talking about the ruling system or tolerance among people?

About the people, Iranians are one of the most tolerant people in ME towards other religious groups. I have never seen a Jew, Christian, Muslims or Zoroastrians harass each other because of religion.

I won't talk about the ruling system because it requires a long discussion and I'm not in the mood really. But about regular people, it's like what I said.

on a side note, thugs exist in every country. You may be harassed because of your religion in any part of the world, including the first world ones, but they are called exceptions, not a common thing. So naturally, we don't include thugs in our calculations.

Dear Serpentine, The ruling system is consisted of some people who are from Iranian people not from Mars
Who were destroying Bahais cemeteries and tombs and burn their houses? Our history about zoroasterians is not much different. well, lets not even talk about irreligious people who got mass hung. BTW, almost every country in the world is more tolerable toward other religions as ME countries. So, it is not surprising IF Iran is more tolerable than ME countries.

 

[Esfand]

Dear Serpentine, The ruling system is consisted of some people who are from Iranian people not from Mars
Who were destroying Bahais cemeteries and tombs and burn their houses? Our history about zoroasterians is not much different. well, lets not even talk about irreligious people who got mass hung. BTW, almost every country in the world is more tolerable toward other religions as ME countries. So, it is not surprising IF Iran is more tolerable than ME countries.

Yes, but the individuals in the ruling system are not independent, that is where your argument fails. I dont condone the acts though

 

[rmi5]

Yes, but the individuals in the ruling system are not independent, that is where your argument fails. I dont condone the acts though

Dear @Esfand , What do you mean that they are not independent? have they been forced to do those inhumane actions? >>> NO
Many of them, have done the same things before the revolution era as well. Did Shah told them to do so? >>> NO
Are all of this inhumane behavior done only by the people associated with the government? >>> NO

 

[Serpentine]

Dear Serpentine, The ruling system is consisted of some people who are from Iranian people not from Mars
Who were destroying Bahais cemeteries and tombs and burn their houses? Our history about zoroasterians is not much different. well, lets not even talk about irreligious people who got mass hung. BTW, almost every country in the world is more tolerable toward other religions as ME countries. So, it is not surprising IF Iran is more tolerable than ME countries.

Your logic will not work for some examples.

I can say now that German people are Nazis or believe in it because Nazi regime got all of its force, power and everything from Germans. I can say Russians love Stalin's ideas about freedom because he ruled Russians. I can say Americans are racists because blacks were treated like animals more than century ago (though it was actually related more to people rather than the ruling system, but Americans changed and got rid of it).

Iranians, as seen from people point of view, are very tolerant toward religious groups and you should be able to separate ruling system policies with common people on the street. I was solely talking about people.

 

[Esfand]

Dear @Esfand , What do you mean that they are not independent? have they been forced to do those inhumane actions? >>> NO
Many of them, have done the same things before the revolution era as well. Did Shah told them to do so? >>> NO
Are all of this inhumane behavior done only by the people associated with the government? >>> NO

Of course not, but as was said before, "thugs exist in every country.". No one has claimed that Iranians are each and single one angels, just like Arabs aren't, Turks, etc...

 

[rmi5]

Your logic will not work for some examples.

I can say now that German people are Nazis or believe in it because Nazi regime got all of its force, power and everything from Germans. I can say Russians love Stalin's ideas about freedom because he ruled Russians. I can say Americans are racists because blacks were treated like animals more than century ago (though it was actually related more to people rather than the ruling system, but Americans changed and got rid of it).

Iranians, as seen from people point of view, are very tolerant toward religious groups and you should be able to separate ruling system policies with common people on the street. I was solely talking about people.

Of course not, but as was said before, "thugs exist in every country.". No one has claimed that Iranians are each and single one angels, just like Arabs aren't, Turks, etc...

well, Nazis never had the majority in Germany, and they came into power by illegal means. Communists were not the majority in Russia either and they gain power with civil war, and people fought with them and got killed by stalin in millions. In USA, It was all about some racists in the south, in which they were not even the majority in that region and they went to the trash of history by American people. But, what about Iran? these issues existed even before revolution era, it got official after the revolution, and the majority did not even cared enough about this issue. BTW, you belong to the majority, and it would be hard for you to understand what minorities really feel in the society. you may feel that everything is OK, but it is not even close to the reality.

 

[Esfand]

@Esfand @rmi5 @Serpentine
Comparing a religious system vs a secular one, unfortunately my vote goes for the latter.
Any one familiar with the great teacher of this whole existence, history, can affirm that unfortunately the body of the world population today are equal mentally and intellectually with the same people 1000 years ago.
And also unfortunately the very same history has taught us that religion could be the most ever dangerous weapon in the hand mankind. whom are willing to abuse it.
And when we can't find a world free of power abusers, unfortunately I prefer a religion free governing system.

Why do you say "unfortunately" ?

 

[rmi5]

A religious government will ruin the religion in a country as well. You can clearly observe the Iran's case.
Even majority of Shia maraaje' did not agree with the concept of "mullahs in power". which it makes sense.
The majority of Shia clerics and maraaje' have always believed that the ruling is only the right of the innocent Imam, and no one else has the right to claim that clerics should have the power. since anyone else, including faghih, would abuse the power.
You can consider Ayatollah Boroujerdi, Khoyi, .... as examples, and consider their opinions.
BTW, only followers of Khomeini, who was a big fan of Ibn Arabi, introduced the "Velaayat e Faghih" in Shia religion and society.

 

[New]

Why do you say "unfortunately" ?

Because, deeply within I believe in religion, and you'd better know in sociological studies, Utopia is defined as one of the most restricted communities, but those should be willingly opted self restrictions not governmental oppression's.

 

[Serpentine]

well, Nazis never had the majority in Germany, and they came into power by illegal means. Communists were not the majority in Russia either and they gain power with civil war, and people fought with them and got killed by stalin in millions. In USA, It was all about some racists in the south, in which they were not even the majority in that region and they went to the trash of history by American people. But, what about Iran? these issues existed even before revolution era, it got official after the revolution, and the majority did not even cared enough about this issue. BTW, you belong to the majority, and it would be hard for you to understand what minorities really feel in the society. you may feel that everything is OK, but it is not even close to the reality.

Hitler was elected in an election. Also Bolsheviks had the majority support in Russia in 1917 revolution. People later became against Stalin, but USSR existed much after his death, until 1991. So can we say Russians are like Stalin or not? And racism in America wasn't just about the South, it existed commonly among the whites, and no one cared about it until a movement started to abolish racism.

And what 'issues' existed before revolution and after it? Can you specify?

I think you still can't or don't want to differentiate between the ruling system and people. Let's assume Iran becomes a secular democracy, like the one in Sweden and Norway, I am asking you, will common people harass each other because of religion then?
My answer is no, because they are not doing it now.

Lastly, I never said Iranians are the best in the world, because they aren't, we have too many problems, the people I mean. But religious harassment (people by other people) is not one of them.