Iranian Chill Thread

[SalarHaqq]

well that's misunderstanding the problem , they come to our language way before that . and it has nothing to do with religion either . people are simply people no matter its now , or its Qajar dynasty or 1200 years ago.
those world become part of Persians language is exactly happened as when what we saw at Qajar dynasty , when French was the language of choice for people who went to Europe , when they come back they wanted to tell people they knew more than them , and started to use french words in their talks , and other people also copied them , later English become the language of fashion and some retards wanted to say they are more educated than others so they began talking with English word between their sentences and as people are people , the rest followed them and some other word entered Persian language , those Arabic words also entered Persian language the same way but way before when Arabic was scientific language and language of fashion .

about use of arabic word , I'm not against them , and have no problem using them and I am seriously against running a witch hunt to purify the language from it , its just some nonsense. what I'm against is that some people use some nonsense arabic word to say they are religion and studied some arabic religious book . or when you have some legal work , they speak so if they are not raised in Iran. that's what i say must be fixed

It's not unique to Iran nor to Farsi nor to Islam that certain disciplines or sciences will, for historical reasons, feature increased numbers of loanwords from a given foreign idiom. E.g. Latin in medical sciences and many other such examples. Whether or not it used to be a fashion trend more than a thousand years ago is no longer relevant in present times - perhaps Arabic used to be a threat to the Persian language back then, but the Ferdosis et alii made sure to neutralize it.

However, this is a completely different category of a phenomenon than the existential threat posed here and now by the English language, whose expansive use is linked with a much broader political agenda from an actually existing, domineering hegemonic empire (I cannot see any Arabic empire anywhere nowadays, whether some delusional pan-Arab internet users will accept it or not).

So what's needed today, are the Ferdosis who will efficiently fight off English linguistic imperialism against Farsi.

 

[Dariush the Great]

Meedanam harf shoma dorost hast vali dar masel "cutural" nabayad az doshman tarsid...bayad harf ra zad.

Tars nist baradar. Moshgel injast ke doshman soo estefade mikone az moshgelaat ejtemai.
Hamin harfayi ke to alan inja zadi, emrooz ya farda yeki az doshmanan troll miad be roomoon mige. Chera? Chon ke behesh bahoone dadi.

 

[aryobarzan]

@mohsen ..my friend you asked me who provoked me ..my answer is "Ferdosi" and his beautiful poem

In his honor and memory

 

[SalarHaqq]

@mohsen ..my friend you asked me who provoked me ..my answer is "Ferdosi" and his beautiful poem

View attachment 840557

In his honor and memory
View attachment 840558

Today, Ferdosi would be busy shielding Persian from the actual, existential threat of Anglo-Saxon linguistic imperialism. Where is the real Ferdosi of our time?

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

U.S Natural Gas
From ~4.5(before Ukraine) to 8

 

[Hack-Hook]

Today, Ferdosi would be busy shielding Persian from the actual, existential threat of Anglo-Saxon linguistic imperialism. Where is the real Ferdosi of our time?

who ever it is , its not that useless Academy of Persian Language and Literature which is sleep.
I wonder why they keep Haddad-e-Adel there instead of putting someone who has the energy and will to awaken the useless academy

 

[Dariush the Great]

who ever it is , its not that useless Academy of Persian Language and Literature which is sleep.
I wonder why they keep Haddad-e-Adel there instead of putting someone who has the energy and will to awaken the useless academy

No need to wonder. I tell you why. Because his son married the daughter of Khamenei.

 

[QWECXZ]

Today, Ferdosi would be busy shielding Persian from the actual, existential threat of Anglo-Saxon linguistic imperialism. Where is the real Ferdosi of our time?

And guess who is responsible for the threat of Anglo-Saxons? Is this a problem in Turkey and Saudi Arabia as well?

Iran is becoming like India. There are companies in Iran where written communication between Iranians is done in English.
My friends at the company think I don't speak English because I reply to their emails only in Persian.

We don't need a new Ferdowsi now. We have a center for preserving the Persian language. What are they doing there?

 

[SalarHaqq]

who ever it is , its not that useless Academy of Persian Language and Literature which is sleep.
I wonder why they keep Haddad-e-Adel there instead of putting someone who has the energy and will to awaken the useless academy

Useless for what reason? Because it's focusing on the actual threat rather than on the mirage of Arabization, a mirage that is being constructed to deflect the actual issue at hand? Or maybe because it's not presided over by a reformist?

There's only so much an Academy of Persian Language can do when confronted with the most formidable cultural-imperialist onslaught in the history of mankind. With the biggest and most resourceful, most well funded psy-ops, media machinery and propaganda apparatus ever witnessed.

One thing they can do and did extremely well, was to systematically create equivalents for new vocabs, which generally make their first appearance in English. Most countries in the world have given up on that, Iran hasn't, thanks to the Academy.

Another one of its achievements is the supervision of state owned media and public teaching staff to make sure English vocabulary isn't used by these. With some recent exceptions, it has been successful to a very large extent.

As for the way people talk in private, liberals will get mad of rage if public authorities use coercion to regulate individual linguistic practice.

- - - - -

And guess who is responsible for the threat of Anglo-Saxons? Is this a problem in Turkey and Saudi Arabia as well?

Iran is becoming like India. There are companies in Iran where written communication between Iranians is done in English.
My friends at the company think I don't speak English because I reply to their emails only in Persian.

The Anglo-zionists and their cultural imperialism have nothing to do with it, of course. Probably just a popular "backlash", had Iran bowed to the US like the defunct monarchy, use of English would have been magically contained... not!

It's a global phenomenon, certainly not specific to Iran in any way. The same and much worse in fact can be observed all over old Europe, for instance, key difference being that here they don't have an Islamic Republic capable of ensuring that beyond private companies which use English for written communication, universities and so on will not outright switch to English as their main language, or offer parallel curriculae in English from bottom up.

In the meantime, some secular nationalists will spend their time chasing windmills of Arabization or fully dedicate themselves to 24/7 anti-IR agitation rather than spending half that energy on actively challenging and tackling their westernized compatriots (but is it really surprising, considering that the majority of modern nationalist currents in Iran have themselves been geopolitically pro-western and/or culturally westernized).

 

[QWECXZ]

The Anglo-zionists and their cultural imperialism have nothing to do with it, of course. Probably just a "backlash" too, and had Iran bowed to the US like the defunct monarchy, usage of English would have been magically contained... not!

It's a global phenomenon, certainly not specific to Iran in any way. The same and much worse in fact can be observed all over old Europe, for instance, key difference being that here they don't have an Islamic Republic capable of ensuring that beyond private companies which use English for written communication, universities and so on will not outright switch to English as their main languages, or offer parallel curriculae fully in English.

In the meantime, some secular nationalists spend their time chasing windmills of Arabization and fully dedicate themselves to 24/7 anti-IR agitation instead of spending half that energy on actively challenging and tackling their westernized compatriots (but is it really surprising, considering that most modern nationalist currents in Iran have themselves been geopolitically pro-western and/or culturally westernized).

So, basically you are claiming that in other countries, nationals of that country also communicate with each other in English when there's not even a single foreigner in the radius of 20 kilometers of that company? We are talking about Iran where meeting a non-Afghan foreigner is almost like seeing an alien or a unicorn.

As surprising as it sounds to you, English is in fact closer to Persian than Semitic languages will ever be. At least it's an Indo-European language. Father, mother, daughter, brother, etc. sound much more similar to Persian than their Arabic equivalents.

 

[SalarHaqq]

So, basically you are claiming that in other countries, nationals of that country also communicate with each other in English when there's not even a single foreigner in the radius of 20 kilometers of that company? We are talking about Iran where meeting a non-Afghan foreigner is almost like seeing an alien or a unicorn.

Much of the white collar staff in multinational corporations around here won't bother learning the local language anymore, because they simply don't need to: everyone's communicating in English.

Visit a busy restaurant in the business district of any major European economic hub, you'll notice a large chunk of employees hail from East Asia, India, other EU states, America, you name it. And they're not long term immigrants, they spend a couple of years here on a mission, then off to the next standardized global city in some other corner of the world.

Forget about white collars, people doing simple low-wage jobs in the service sector increasingly have no mastery of the native language of the European country they reside and work in.

Go to a university, exchange students will soon surpass locals in numbers.

In Tehran some freaks may be deriving satisfaction from artificially aping these conditions, but it's the appeal of globalism first and foremost, and it's confined to certain areas of the Iranian capital and to a token number of companies. Not a generalized phenomenon like here. Integrate Iran into the global markets, and it'll only boost the issue to western levels.

As surprising as it sounds to you, English is in fact closer to Persian than Semitic languages will ever be. At least it's an Indo-European language. Father, mother, daughter, brother, etc. sound much more similar to Persian than their Arabic equivalents.

You should decide whether you want Persian to stay intact, or whether you don't mind it getting "Anglicized" / globalized, my choice is clear.

 

[QWECXZ]

Exactly. I will also stress that much of the white collar staff in multinational corporations around here won't bother learning the local language anymore, because they simply don't need to: everyone's communicating in English. Visit a restaurant in the business district of any major European economic hub, you'll notice a large chunk of employees hail from East Asia, India, other EU states, you name it. And they're not long term immigrants, they spend a couple of years here on a mission, then off to the next standardized global city in some other country.

Forget about white collars, increasingly people doing simple low-wage jobs in the service sector don't speak the native language of the European country they reside and work in.

Go to a university, exchange students will soon surpass locals in numbers.



Then decide whether you want Persian to stay intact, or whether you don't mind it getting "Anglicized" / globalized.

Do you really have comprehension issues or you just pretend to have it? I said that seeing a non-Afghan foreigner in Iran is as likely as seeing a unicorn or an alien. Even Iraqis or Arabs are not that many in cities like Tehran and it's rare to see them. And you are comparing Iranian companies to multinational corporations with international employees? Nearly all Iranian companies have no foreigners employed, and no foreigner has ever walked in the vicinity of them in decades. None of your examples are relevant. It's quite ridiculous to talk exactly about something that was refuted from the very beginning. It's just pure "oghdeh" that these people communicate in English and guess who is responsible for that oghdeh? I would blame the system for it.

If I have to choose between the two, I would very much prefer Persian to become Anglicized or even better mixed with French vocabulary and pronunciation instead of introducing or using strange words from the vocabulary of a glottal Semitic language that is in nearly every way different from our language. But of course there's a third way. How about just preserving Persian as it is? Hebrew was almost dead and Israel brought it back to existence. Persian is far from the situation where Hebrew was.

 

[TheImmortal]

Persian is far from the situation where Hebrew was.

Persian from the time of Cyrus and the old ancient empires of antiquity is long dead. Just look at ancient Persian inscriptions or historical text inserts from Zoroastrianism religion. You will never be able to understand or read those words as a commoner.

Hebrew from ancient sea scrolls and Hebrew from today while different are still linguistically similar. So while Hebrew was “dead” in a verbally being spoke sense, it’s language was largely kept in tact. Persian (Iranic) language has been killed and modified many times over the centuries. It’s nearly unrecognizable from its ancient roots.

Language naturally “evolves” over time. But what happened to Persian (Iranic) language is something distinctly different.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Do you really have comprehension issues or you just pretend to have it? I said that seeing a non-Afghan foreigner in Iran is as likely as seeing a unicorn or an alien. Even Iraqis or Arabs are not that many in cities like Tehran and it's rare to see them. And you are comparing Iranian companies to multinational corporations with international employees? Nearly all Iranian companies have no foreigners employed, and no foreigner has ever walked in the vicinity of them in decades. None of your examples are relevant. It's quite ridiculous to talk exactly about something that was refuted from the very beginning. It's just pure "oghdeh" that these people communicate in English and guess who is responsible for that oghdeh? I would blame the system for it.

I'm pointing to a simple reality that for some reason you prefer to ignore, namely the fact that you're comparing a marginal phenomenon in Tehran to a generalized one here in the west and in other places affected by globalism.

Now I let you guess what would happen if it wasn't for the Islamic Republic's inward looking strategy, and Iran was integrated into the global economy - then the issue wouldn't be confined to bunch of complexed employees in a handful of companies seated in northern Tehran, it would turn into a widescale norm.

Yes, I'll take a thousand oghdeis over hundreds of thousands of globalized, uprooted zombies any day.

If I have to choose between the two, I would very much prefer Persian to become Anglicized or even mixed with French vocabulary instead of introducing or using strange words from the vocabulary of a glottal Semitic language. But of course there's a third way. How about just preserving Persian as it is? Hebrew was almost dead and Israel brought it back to existence. Persian is far from the situation where Hebrew was.

Modern Persian in its present form is heir to an extremely rich literary legacy, of which Ancient and Middle Persian are nowadays deprived. Extinct languages that are mutually unintelligible with Modern Persian by the way. Most people have no interest in ditching the present heritage for the sake of ultra-nationalist imperatives of purity. Ferdosi himself continued to use 700+ Arabic words in the Shahname. Moreover, these Semitic-origin vocabs imported into Persian aren't pronounced in a glottal manner.

And to a westerner, Persian doesn't sound related to their own idioms but completely alien including in tone - there's the letter kh in Persian, which is lacking in most European idioms, although it's there in German and Spanish. Then Parsi has the gh sound in common with Arabic, that does not exist in any western language. And both these letters were by the way present in Ancient Persian already. As for the typical ā of Persian, it sounds exotic to about everyone, westerners included.

It's not a matter of subjective preference, but of what the most acute present threat is. It's not a matter of supposed "ethno"-linguistic ties either, western regimes have been Iran's biggest enemies in modern times, and continue to be existential foes to the Iranian nation.

If you have no issues with allowing a new stream of vocabs from European languages into Persian, then perhaps you ought not claim adherence to nationalism but openly endorse westernization.

And a crucial difference with Hebrew is that the modern Iranian nation was constructed under the Safavid dynasty while leaning on Modern Persian. The zionists were deprived of a nation-state and a unifying language hence the necessity to concoct one from scratch. Iran's modern nation-station building was accomplished four hundred years ago, and it has its own well rooted markers of identity already.

 

[QWECXZ]

Persian from the time of Cyrus and the old ancient empires of antiquity is long dead. Just look at ancient Persian inscriptions or historical text inserts from Zoroastrianism religion. You will never be able to understand or read those words as a commoner.

Hebrew from ancient sea scrolls and Hebrew from today while different are still linguistically similar. So while Hebrew was “dead” in a verbally being spoke sense, it’s language was largely kept in tact. Persian (Iranic) language has been killed and modified many times over the centuries. It’s nearly unrecognizable from its ancient roots.

Language naturally “evolves” over time. But what happened to Persian (Iranic) language is something distinctly different.

Persian has gone through different phases in history. Just like English or many other languages. Obviously, today's Persian is different from its ancestors like the Wakhi language or the Avestan language. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Not even remotely related to what we are talking about.

Hebrew was literally dead. Israel revived it and turned it into a proper language again. They have done it several times throughout history. You can always reintroduce old words again. It's not unheard of in history.

Look at the inventory of the IRGC. Fateh, Kheybar, Zelzal, Sejjil, Ababil, etc. The only exceptions are Khorramshahr and Dezfoul probably.