Iranian Air Defense Systems

[mohsen]

This article states.
"The Bavar373 is not designed to detect a reconnaissance drone with an RCS of 0.1 m^2 at 300 km."

This means that if the F-35 has an RCS of 0.005 m^2, it would not be detectable at an approach to 150 km.
The F-22 is rumored to have an RCS of 0.0001 m^2, making it undetectable at a range of 53 km.
It seems that a different approach is needed to engage the stealth fighters that the US has in large numbers...

And that line is followed by "Yet, we have defined such hard (to engage) threats as it's main targets".

Somewhere else says stealthiness of F35 is impossible in some bands.

 

[HGV]

He is right. The last Mowj ships are being built. It’s an outdated 1960’s design.

The new ships of the future (models) have been unveiled by the navy. Wether they actually build them is the real question.

I know they are being built. I said "There will be 3 more" brought into service. I don't understand the point here. Your/his point is that there will not be 3 more because they are already being built? Someone clearly has comprehension issues here and I do not think it is me.

 

[GrandBotBoi]

This article states.
"The Bavar373 is not designed to detect a reconnaissance drone with an RCS of 0.1 m^2 at 300 km."

This means that if the F-35 has an RCS of 0.005 m^2, it would not be detectable at an approach to 150 km.
The F-22 is rumored to have an RCS of 0.0001 m^2, making it undetectable at a range of 53 km.
It seems that a different approach is needed to engage the stealth fighters that the US has in large numbers...

Those are minimum RCS numbers, only anywhere near that small from certain angles. RCS will be vastly different depending on angle of detection and other factors

 

[TheImmortal]

Probably they will but with a very slow production rate, and if the IRGC has no interest in these types of large surface ships, then expect slow progress. IRGC will a mass a large & relatively quick Catamaran missile slinger fleet

IRGC is PG and entrance of Indian/Arabian Sea focused. Big surface ships without a battle group are liabilities. IRIN has blue water (peace time) aspirations, so big ships are natural need.

One F-22 launching a hypersonic CM will take out any ship in Iranian navy possession right now. It wouldn’t even be a fight.

Thus in my opinion, you will see Iranian navy expand more dramatically as the threat of war goes down and eventual detente is reached with the west similar to what China has with the west. Iran isn’t going to build all these ships just so they can be sunk in a couple weeks.

Those are minimum RCS numbers, only anywhere near that small from certain angles. RCS will be vastly different depending on angle of detection and other factors

Not vastly different, but statistically significant.

The rule of thumb generally is you are not detecting a F-22 like object from further than 75KM away (and most cases closer to 50KM). This is assuming the F-22 doesn’t end up in a major radiation zone where its RCS is significantly compromised.

Still I would be shocked if any major air defense system scored a kill on a F-22 like object outside of 50-75KM.

 

[glablo]

Modern RAM has advanced remarkably.
Even radar absorbing coatings for consumer use, developed in Japan for use in building materials, etc.
Even a consumer use radar absorption paint developed for use as a building material in Japan, with a thickness of only 0.4 mm,
has achieved annual durability and absorption performance of -20db or higher.
Unlike conventional RAM that targets specific wavelengths, the new paint absorbs an extremely broad band of radio waves and is effective against oblique radio waves.

F-35 is estimated to have an RCS of -20db or less without RAM based on its shape.
Perhaps the common RCS estimate of 0.005m2 is too low.

If modern RAM were applied to a stealth aircraft, it would be virtually invisible.

 

[Stryker1982]

If modern RAM were applied to a stealth aircraft, it would be virtually invisible.

Cannot be overstated, whether it'd be stealth aircraft or missiles, attacker always has natural advantage

Not vastly different, but statistically significant.

The rule of thumb generally is you are not detecting a F-22 like object from further than 75KM away (and most cases closer to 50KM). This is assuming the F-22 doesn’t end up in a major radiation zone where its RCS is significantly compromised.

Still I would be shocked if any major air defense system scored a kill on a F-22 like object outside of 50-75KM.

Would be very hard for any SAM to down such an aircraft at that range. When they unleash a wave of small diameter bombs, you'd really need your AD to work wonders here to block the munitions.

 

[TheImmortal]

Cannot be overstated, whether it'd be stealth aircraft or missiles, attacker always has natural advantage


Would be very hard for any SAM to down such an aircraft at that range. When they unleash a wave of small diameter bombs, you'd really need your AD to work wonders here to block the munitions.

I believe quantum radars theoretically have the ability to detect stealth object at further ranges. Both Iran and China are working on them (with China much further along).

However, I am not sure if we see quantum radars till another 15+ years in any major capacity.

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1636377207999455232

 

[glablo]

Sorry for the Japanese document, but this shows the structure of a typical recent broadband RAS.
The first layer of light blue serves to convert the wavelength of radio waves, and the second layer of yellow absorbs them.
This type of coating is as thin as 1mm to 3mm and absorbs various wavelengths, making it effective for the VHF~UHF bands.
In addition, a revolutionary RAS with -30db performance against VHF (100Mhz) with a thickness of 7mm has already been introduced for civilian use in Japan.

Unfortunately, VHF radar is not effective against modern stealth fighters.
Technological innovations are beginning to provide greater benefits to the attacker.

 

[siegecrossbow]

This article states.
"The Bavar373 is not designed to detect a reconnaissance drone with an RCS of 0.1 m^2 at 300 km."

This means that if the F-35 has an RCS of 0.005 m^2, it would not be detectable at an approach to 150 km.
The F-22 is rumored to have an RCS of 0.0001 m^2, making it undetectable at a range of 53 km.
It seems that a different approach is needed to engage the stealth fighters that the US has in large numbers...

Said RCS is for a narrow cone in frontal aspect (+-20 degrees from the nose cone) only. This is why fifth gen fighter pilots are trained so that they only present they smallest RCS to enemy assets. Only when sixth gen fighters are introduced will there be true all aspect stealth.

 

[American College Student]

man, yes no one can claim a superpower ever in history has existed stronger than US .... but but but it is not alone!!! and cannot do what ever she wants .... first Iran has accumulated enough strong cards to prevent the lethal US superiority from going to action with it ...in a smart and brave and long and God blessed effort Iran became the first third world nation to do that... now Iran is finalizing a new level also exclusive to no other third world member where Iran can survive an attack by US... Barberic US only listens to power and Iran mastered and possessed the required ... to fire enough missiles at ain al asad without a strike back from the mega super power!!
start thinking wisely in a new world era and stop thinking of war idiots!!!

But that was a fixed target under peacetime conditions with both sides having leaders who didn't really want direct war, let alone full-scale ground war (example: whats happening with Russia vs Ukraine right now). I'm talking direct war in conjunction between a US/Sunni?Turkish/Azeri alliance vs Iran with massed armies and Massed Armored forces and Missiles deployed.

Iran can defeat a US "intervention" akin to what was implemented in Iraq in the 2000s. But I wasn't talking about an iraq-style "intervention" invasion. I was talking about an old-style world war style ground campaign, with massed mobile units and mobile targeting deployed with the combatants deploying these assets to destroy the opposing massed armies.

 

[glablo]

But that was a fixed target under peacetime conditions with both sides having leaders who didn't really want direct war, let alone full-scale ground war (example: whats happening with Russia vs Ukraine right now). I'm talking direct war in conjunction between a US/Sunni?Turkish/Azeri alliance vs Iran with massed armies and Massed Armored forces and Missiles deployed.

Iran can defeat a US "intervention" akin to what was implemented in Iraq in the 2000s. But I wasn't talking about an iraq-style "intervention" invasion. I was talking about an old-style world war style ground campaign, with massed mobile units and mobile targeting deployed with the combatants deploying these assets to destroy the opposing massed armies.

Let us now review the U.S. strategy at the time of the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
In fact, Turkey and Jordan, which were critical of the U.S., refused to participate in the war.
However, it was advertised in the media that both countries would cooperate in a massive invasion of U.S. forces from the northern border, and this information was passed on to the Iraqi government through double agents.
Furthermore, Kuwait opposed the war until the last minute, pretending to criticize the invasion of Iraq and concealing its intentions.
So the Iraqi army deployed many troops in the north, leaving the south unprotected.
As you know, all U.S. ground troops invaded from Kuwait, and overran the empty south as if they were advancing through a no man's land.

You will notice that the US is employing a similar strategy against Iran.
More and more information will be spread from Turkey/Azerbaijan smelling an invasion of Iran in the future.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

But that was a fixed target under peacetime conditions with both sides having leaders who didn't really want direct war, let alone full-scale ground war (example: whats happening with Russia vs Ukraine right now). I'm talking direct war in conjunction between a US/Sunni?Turkish/Azeri alliance vs Iran with massed armies and Massed Armored forces and Missiles deployed.

Iran can defeat a US "intervention" akin to what was implemented in Iraq in the 2000s. But I wasn't talking about an iraq-style "intervention" invasion. I was talking about an old-style world war style ground campaign, with massed mobile units and mobile targeting deployed with the combatants deploying these assets to destroy the opposing massed armies.

Lay off the sauce and video games.

 

[American College Student]

Let us now review the U.S. strategy at the time of the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
In fact, Turkey and Jordan, which were critical of the U.S., refused to participate in the war.
However, it was advertised in the media that both countries would cooperate in a massive invasion of U.S. forces from the northern border, and this information was passed on to the Iraqi government through double agents.
Furthermore, Kuwait opposed the war until the last minute, pretending to criticize the invasion of Iraq and concealing its intentions.
So the Iraqi army deployed many troops in the north, leaving the south unprotected.
As you know, all U.S. ground troops invaded from Kuwait, and overran the empty south as if they were advancing through a no man's land.

You will notice that the US is employing a similar strategy against Iran.
More and more information will be spread from Turkey/Azerbaijan smelling an invasion of Iran in the future.

There isn't going to be invasion in the near term. Millennials would militantly oppose it as long as the boomers are running the country, Iranians would be tipped off in order scuttle any invasion plans. What I'm talking about is 5 or 10 years from now when the boomers have fully aged out of their positions. Until then Millennials will not fight for Israeli objectives. However once we are in charge and the Israeli alliance is replaced by a US/Sunni alliance such an invasion would become easily doable.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

There isn't going to be invasion in the near term. Millennials would militantly oppose it as long as the boomers are running the country, Iranians would be tipped off in order scuttle any invasion plans. What I'm talking about is 5 or 10 years from now when the boomers have fully aged out of their positions. Until then Millennials will not fight for Israeli objectives. However once we are in charge and the Israeli alliance is replaced by a US/Sunni alliance such an invasion would become easily doable.

You're not making any sense! The boomers are the ones likely to create war, not the woke millenials. So the longer you wait the less liklier war will become. Also US will never abandon Israel for Sunnis, this comment is ridiculous and will age like milk.