Iranian Air Defense Systems

[925boy]

So, how does Iran possess all kinds of the State-of-the-Art Russian, Chinese, and Belarusian radars in its AD inventory if nobody sells them to Iran? In all honesty, no one should ever overlook and underrate the help and support Iran has received from its strategic allies in the last 4 decades. The same way members of this forum ridicule Weastern propaganda in underrating Iranian military achievements, they should condemn the lies Iranian officials tell to people through state media. Getting help from others is not a shame, and is understandable for normal people. What is wrong with it?

You make a good point. Respect for that. I/we have suspected or/and known Iran was probably receiving military technology from RUssia and China, but the problem with why people dont say much or "admit it "like you ask is that : 1) Good accurate information on it is hard to find and 2) THe nature and consistency of the help is unknown.

I do think and suspect has been getting some help, but i would guess more from the Chinese than Russians. With Iran's recent big AD asset deployments and unveilings, i think we can say Iran has probably gotten help to produce/create those. RUssia or/and China, whoever is helping Iran, also doesnt want to be seen as doing it because it might complicate things for them. You cant underestimate Iran's decisiveness in getting to this point though...you're ALMOST toeing the line of "Iran isnt in that bad a situation, this isnt a big deal" kinda argument.

 

[WinterNights]

You make a good point. Respect for that. I/we have suspected or/and known Iran was probably receiving military technology from RUssia and China, but the problem with why people dont say much or "admit it "like you ask is that : 1) Good accurate information on it is hard to find and 2) THe nature and consistency of the help is unknown.

I do think and suspect has been getting some help, but i would guess more from the Chinese than Russians. With Iran's recent big AD asset deployments and unveilings, i think we can say Iran has probably gotten help to produce/create those. RUssia or/and China, whoever is helping Iran, also doesnt want to be seen as doing it because it might complicate things for them. You cant underestimate Iran's decisiveness in getting to this point though...you're ALMOST toeing the line of "Iran isnt in that bad a situation, this isnt a big deal" kinda argument.

Without any disrespect to China, their air defence technology and radars tech etc is not advanced enough for us to be assuming they are giving Iran this level of help. Another fact to remember, is that they pulled out of so many deals in the past, such as c-802. This is not about them not saying anything so they're not seen to be doing it, if they're helping, the US etc would know. Just like they know these Chinese are helping the saudis with their missile program.


If anyone offered help, I'd say it's the Russians (they're also advanced enough). But Iran's advances in air defence is simply too much to assume it's due to anyone's help. These advances are due to the high level of priority air defence has in Iran, plus Iran's highly capable electronic industry base in places like SAIRAN. Check this out:

We don't question Iran's ballistic missile advances due to the fact we know how much attention Iran gives that sector, the same is true of it's air defence.

 

[PeeD]

Russia does business. When they agreed to the TOR-M1 deal they also agreed on the Kasta-2, Nebo-SVU, Gamma-D and (early) Resonanz. The main reason for selling this collection seems to have been their cancellation of the S-300 deal. Today the Kasta copy Kavosh is Irans main gapfiller.

But tech transfer that would explain 3rd Khordads Buk-M2 like radar, the Hafez's Gamma-S like array or this Ghadir-2 which looks like the lastest Resonanz variant (non-export, Russian standard) are not likely.
Russians are leading in many radar sectors hence Iran sometimes emulates their concept with those systems and may add to it in some cases. Means: Russia upgrades Resonanz with new add-on phased arrays? We do the same based on our (early) Resonanz copy we got from them.

So Russia does rather business, nothing more. Selling a "strategic" asset like the Resonanz was a good gesture from them. However even the UAE has a Resonanz based radar today, so not that exclusive anymore.

China does effectively also just business, no real ToT, although it might exist to a low degree. China might have been a great help on setting up the "dual-use" manufacturing industry of SA Iran, I don't know.
Irans biggest jump was from a unexpected source and building on that it lead to Irans S-band AESAs.

Belarus was probably a larger source of help than Russia and China.

 

[WinterNights]

@PeeD

Have we seen any indication of gallium nitrate modules being made in Iran for AESA?

 

[Draco.IMF]

Irans biggest jump was from a unexpected source and building on that it lead to Irans S-band AESAs.

technology came allegedly from Armenia, not a secret anymore, so lets not make a big deal about it

Iran’s Najm-802 phase-array antenna came from Armenia

https://alert5.com/2017/11/01/irans-najm-802-phase-array-antenna-came-from-armenia/

 

[Myself]

Belarus was probably a larger source of help than Russia and China.

Although few page earlier on this topic you said you wouldn’t, I am glad you finally mentioned the name of that country which has unbelievably provided Iran with detailed technical support in many aspects of the weaponary systems. So, responsibility for this correct claim stays with you !
I wish we could get some more information about technical aspects of the U.S. drone mission on that date: why did it fly at midnight? What was its mission? Should an MQ-4 always be accompanied by another manned spy/surveillance plane such as P-8? Etc.?

 

[WinterNights]

technology came allegedly from Armenia, not a secret anymore, so lets not make a big deal about it

Iran’s Najm-802 phase-array antenna came from Armenia

https://alert5.com/2017/11/01/irans-najm-802-phase-array-antenna-came-from-armenia/

These Americans go through some serious mental gymnastic to avoid giving Iran's defence industry its credit. They obviously don't want other nations to follow Irans path in indigenous development and instead want them to rely on importing American systems. No wonder they come up with more ridiculous claims by the day. One day it was Armenia, in the future they will claim Bavar-373 came from sri lanka.

 

[yavar]

 

[skyshadow]

it almost gave me a heart attack but im to young to die



https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20190623.aspx

 

[Myself]

They were phishing for data on radar and ADS. And the bait was the spy drone. They wanted to analyze the Iranian ADS attack on a object and find any weakness for ECMs. So the ADS used is compromised. It probably needs to be altered and/or updated/upgraded. If the Iranians know of any weaknesses.

They probably won't attack Iran until a weakness is found

Appreciating your thought, one can slightly alter your post and conclude Iran was phishing for data on U.S. most expensive and cutting edge drone technology to test its new ADS against such a valuable target. Iran wanted to analyze MQ-4C ECM system to find any weakness for it. So, since the Global Hawk was targeted successfully, AN/ALR-90 is now compromised, and it probably needs to be altered and/or updated/upgraded. If the Americans know of any weakness!
How was that?

 

[WinterNights]

it almost gave me a heart attack but im to young to die



https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20190623.aspx

One has to wonder if these people actually believe the pile of trash they're writing. I hope for their sake that their military does not believe such nonsense otherwise they're in a world of hurt, much worse than this RQ-4 incident if the situation arrises.

 

[TheImmortal]

The other factor people aren’t considering are retired/rogue scientists.

Many of these scientists can be bought ($$$) to assist development a technology in which they are “experts” in the field.

You don’t need the “nation” to help you if you can secure some of its scientists. Did US need post Nazi germany to make its military leap? No they offered amnesty to top Nazi scientists which led to huge leaps in aerospace, space program, and military in general.

There are post Soviet and Chinese scientists/engineer that Iran could attempt to recruit to help in certain areas.

The other way is “back door dealings”. Iran wants something, Russia doesn’t want to do it directly so they use a third country/middleman to hide the transaction. Gives Russia deniability.

Lastly is the arms black market where blueprints, arms, technology are sold to highest bidders.

 

[skyshadow]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1142165544214433792

 

[PeeD]

https://ria.ru/20190618/1555540651.html

- What will be the C-500, what can we tell about it now?

- This is a fundamentally new generation system. The basis of the location means of this system are locators built on the basis of active phased arrays in which there is no transmitting device - the signal is formed by the antenna itself. In its composition there are relatively small power amplifiers, which are phased in a special way. Instead of electrovacuum devices with voltages of 30-40 kV, devices with a voltage of not more than 27 V are used. This design simplifies the task significantly. This has a positive effect on reliability as well as on operational safety. Active phased arrays also allow to obtain more significant characteristics of the radiated power and the width of the spectrum of the signals used. Significantly higher and antenna performance.
Today, the technology of manufacturing AFAR (active phased antenna array - ed.) At the enterprises of the concern has been fully mastered. Locators have been created and are being tested as part of testing a new system.

This is from a interview on the S-500 from a few days ago.
Bavar-373 uses the same approach: AESA engagement radar instead of a PESA such as the S-400. Power output is lower but it achieves same or better results.

Bavar-373 and S-500 somehow manage to create a significantly higher gain compared to PESA S-400. The S-400 makes up for it by a relatively larger array and higher element output.
Interesting is the statement this this new approach is "simpler", yet better.

I have the feeling that there is more to this technology than just a switch to an AESA array like the new Patriot engagement radar. The new Patriot radar will use expensive GaN TRMs to achieve the necessary performance.

 

[T-72B]

https://ria.ru/20190618/1555540651.html



This is from a interview on the S-500 from a few days ago.
Bavar-373 uses the same approach: AESA engagement radar instead of a PESA such as the S-400. Power output is lower but it achieves same or better results.

Bavar-373 and S-500 somehow manage to create a significantly higher gain compared to PESA S-400. The S-400 makes up for it by a relatively larger array and higher element output.
Interesting is the statement this this new approach is "simpler", yet better.

I have the feeling that there is more to this technology than just a switch to an AESA array like the new Patriot engagement radar. The new Patriot radar will use expensive GaN TRMs to achieve the necessary performance.

Is this credible?