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Iranian Air Defense Systems

What is your proof?
First Israel claims that their F35 was flying over Iran , then 3 weeks later commander of our Army Air Defence department was replaced in silence ....
if you except me to show some official signed paper about this issue , then I should say : " I don't have this kind of proofs "
 
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First Israel claims that their F35 was flying over Iran , then 3 weeks later commander of our Army Air Defence department was replaced in silence ....
if you except me to show some official signed paper about this issue , then I should say : " I don't have this kind of proofs "
Iran would not do that, I mean even if what you say about "F35 flying over Iran" be true then Iran would not rush to change commander of our Army Air Defense due to the fact that it would be a sign of acknowledging israel claims ...and he was actually promoted ..
 
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Iran would not do that, I mean even if what you say about "F35 flying over Iran" be true then Iran would not rush to change commander of our Army Air Defense due to the fact that it would be a sign of acknowledging israel claims ...and he was actually promoted ..

promoted to lesser position !?
 
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He was faired after Israelis F35 flied over Iran in silence ...
Have you actually looked at a map of the distances that would involve?.Not to mention that even by the reckless standards of the israelis it would be an utterly foolhardy and pointless risk with virtually no gain apart from some extremely dubious propaganda value,so why bother risking one of the wests most state of the art aircraft,which by the way the israeli airforce is still in the process of working up on,when you`ll have nothing to show for it apart from some dubious rumors.The israelis may be reckless idiots on occasion,but they arent totally stupid idiots either.
 
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Bavar is as ready as then Fateh, which has been ready for the past 4 years.

You can’t tell anything from iranian press releases as they are merely propaganda.

Given the fact we haven’t even recieved the footage of it intercepting a BM missile yet (per Rouhanis requirements). It’s still in testing stages with senior units of the AD force.
Actually, there has been talk of some structural issues with the Fateh (I'm sure @VEVAK would tell you all about them very enthusiastically), but no such issues for Bavar as per latest statements by military officials.



You are partially right. Iranian press is often very unreliable, but the statements of actual high ranking military officials, especially the defence minister, are a good indication. For example, for Bavar-373 I think then-commander of the IRIADF, Farzad Esmaili, said that all tests had been completed and the IRIADF was waiting for MODAFL to produce the systems. SAIRAN at least seems to be able to make radars quite rapidly, judging by the number of radars visible outside their production centre.


1st Fatteh started it's testing ~5 years ago in 2013 and it was concluded that the lower cost materials picked for the hull was not fit for the sub (structural issues) so Iran took the sub back and disassembled it and reassembled it's components in a NEW hull and the New Fatteh started it's Testing in March of 2017 NOT 4 years ago!

Right now the Fatteh can be fielded for battel if needed but as long as it's not a necessity clearly they would rather do more testing, adjustments, gather more data for simulators, due extensive crew training, push and set limits.....

That's why I say it was a mistake to build the 2nd one and they should have just moved on to a larger sized hull for a force multiplier....

As for Bavar being able to take on Ballistic Missiles I also think it's a grave mistake to try to build 1 type of system that can take on both fighters and Ballistic Missiles!

Ballistic Missiles upon reentry can't change their trajectory and the newer RV that can still can't change their trajectory by all that much where as fighter can hit the break turn around and drop chaff but fly at far lower speeds.
The flight path of BM by the most part is in areas with little to no oxygen so your warhead requirements are going to be different
The trajectory you SAM missiles need to fly at to engage fighters beyond 100km will also be completely different than the trajectory you'll need to intercept BM and a lot of the other specs are also different.….

Also modern BM have decoys so you need different systems for tracking and targeting because you don't want decoy's released by BM to effect your ability to detect, track & target fighters and other aircrafts within the atmosphere.

I think Iran should build two completely separate systems that are networked with each other rather than one system tasked to do everything.....
 
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If IRAN can move few units out to Syria some live testing can ensure , improvements can be made if necessary
 
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As for Bavar being able to take on Ballistic Missiles I also think it's a grave mistake to try to build 1 type of system that can take on both fighters and Ballistic Missiles!

Wrong!

S-300, S-400, and S-500 all beg to differ with your absurd logic.

Iran Bavar follows same formula it uses 3 DIFFERENT missiles to engage different types of targets.

So the missile that engages a BM is not the same as the missle that engages an aircraft or a cruise missile.

The S series of Russian air defense system shows operate in similar fashion, they incorporate new missile and some additional components (radar, fire and control, etc) instead of reinventing the wheel.

And considering Russia is considered world wide to have the best air defense technology I think they know more than you do.

Ballistic Missiles upon reentry can't change their trajectory and the newer RV that can still can't change their trajectory by all that much where as fighter can hit the break turn around and drop chaff but fly at far lower speeds.



WRONG!

Modern day RV’s can change trajectory and at the upper limits of the atmosphere (where most anti-BM’s seak interception) a simple deviation can throw the trajectory off by many KM’s!

And if you know physics you know a interceptor missile that is going supersonic to intercept the Warhead has to contend with EXTREME G-forces that could potentially tear the interceptor missile apart if it needs to deviate from its own trajectory.

where as fighter can hit the break turn around and drop chaff but fly at far lower speeds.

LOL! You are talking about a UFO at that point. What modern aircraft can go from supersonic speeds or high speeds stop quickly and turn around? You watch too much Hollywood movies.

Lastly even saying a fighter jet can out maneuver An advanced interceptor is just funny. At such an altitude (35,000 feet) an interceptor can withstand much more G-force manuveurs to catch the fighter than a human pilot can withstand before passing out. Hence why most pilots rely on EW,jamming, afterburners rather than dog fighting a interceptor.


I think Iran should build two completely separate systems that are networked with each other rather than one system tasked to do everything.....

Two completely separate systems is expensive and wasteful spending! This is money/resources/time that Iran doesn’t have!

Iran can simply use the Bavar system and add new radar and sub systems and new type of interceptor missile and achieve the same thing (Bavar-2)! That is what Russia does with the S-300, S-350, and S-400 and now S-500 (hypersonic vehicle interceptor).
 
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Wrong!

S-300, S-400, and S-500 all beg to differ with your absurd logic.

Iran Bavar follows same formula it uses 3 DIFFERENT missiles to engage different types of targets.

So the missile that engages a BM is not the same as the missle that engages an aircraft or a cruise missile.

The S series of Russian air defense system shows operate in similar fashion, they incorporate new missile and some additional components (radar, fire and control, etc) instead of reinventing the wheel.

And considering Russia is considered world wide to have the best air defense technology I think they know more than you do.


WRONG!

Modern day RV’s can change trajectory and at the upper limits of the atmosphere (where most anti-BM’s seak interception) a simple deviation can throw the trajectory off by many KM’s!

And if you know physics you know a interceptor missile that is going supersonic to intercept the Warhead has to contend with EXTREME G-forces that could potentially tear the interceptor missile apart if it needs to deviate from its own trajectory.



LOL! You are talking about a UFO at that point. What modern aircraft can go from supersonic speeds or high speeds stop quickly and turn around? You watch too much Hollywood movies.

Lastly even saying a fighter jet can out maneuver An advanced interceptor is just funny. At such an altitude (35,000 feet) an interceptor can withstand much more G-force manuveurs to catch the fighter than a human pilot can withstand before passing out. Hence why most pilots rely on EW,jamming, afterburners rather than dog fighting a interceptor.




Two completely separate systems is expensive and wasteful spending! This is money/resources/time that Iran doesn’t have!

Iran can simply use the Bavar system and add new radar and sub systems and new type of interceptor missile and achieve the same thing (Bavar-2)! That is what Russia does with the S-300, S-350, and S-400 and now S-500 (hypersonic vehicle interceptor).


So now your claiming to know everything about a system Iran hasn't even made public yet!!!!! Yes they showed a few part and components but entire system has not been made public!

And who do you think does more testing of their systems the U.S. or the Russians???

Yes the U.S. Patriot system can also intercept crude BM so what? I can't comment on the S-500 because I just don't know much about it! For all I know they also have a totally independent tracking specialized for and specifically made for BM I DONT KNOW!
And it's not about reinventing the wheel!!!!!!! Right now the RCS of modern aircrafts are as small as birds so you need to use speed and altitude to remove clutter from real threats because there will always be a limit to the number of targets you can track and it becomes much harder with longer ranged systems

And a real life scenario is completely different than controlled tests! In real life you'll have BM's with decoys + Fighters + Cruise Missiles + UCAV's + Decoy UAV's... coming at you! And that's just too many threats with different specs (Like attitude and speed) coming at you for one radar tracking system at Iran's technological capabilities to handle!


As for modern RV as I said "UP ON RE-Entry" They can't change their trajectory or speed by all that much & yes a small change in trajectory at high altitude will make a lot of difference as to where they land but the actual trajectory does not change by all that much! so the requirements for your missiles ability to change it's speed and trajectory are completely different than a fighter that can easily turn around and can constantly change it's speed, heading, altitude & release chaff especially when fired upon from over 100km away!

And the fact that fighters can turn is nothing NEW I honesty don't know of any fighter that can't turn!! The Bavar 373 is not a short range system equipped with Scramjet engines! So a modern fighter equipped with modern sensors and a sensor fuzzed network will have ample time to detect your launch and react to it!
And no trained fighter pilot fly's straight towards an incoming SAM or A2A missile! They turn and release chaff & or flairs depending on the threat!

Bavar is meant to be a long rang system with a wide field of view and you have to be picky as to what you plan on tracking and if try to put it all into one tracking system you'll end up with something like the Patriot system which is a fine system as long there are a limited number of threats it has to face and if you try to throw too much at it, it will come up short & that's why the U.S. developed the THAAD to focus on higher altitude threats with specially designed missiles to deal with them

Now the U.S. could have networked the THAAD into the Patriot and called it the New Patriot and for all I know that's how the new S-500 works!!!!!!!!!! Names do NOT matter but the various types of Radars, Sensors, Missiles,... you have do!
And I'm telling you at Iran's technological capabilities trying to put all that responsibility on one system from what I have seen of the Bavar 373 so far is too much! And I could be wrong there could be a different fire control systems and altitude detection radar that hasn't been made public so far I DONT KNOW

but so far I haven't seen 3 different type of missiles for the Bavar 373 I have only seen 1!!!!
 
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It is my wish, and I hope the wish of all Pakistanis, that Iran has an ironclad defense against Israeli aggression.

Why isn't Iran going for the S400 instead of the S300?

With the Israeli F-35 in the mix, things can get tricky.
 
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It is my wish, and I hope the wish of all Pakistanis, that Iran has an ironclad defense against Israeli aggression.

Why isn't Iran going for the S400 instead of the S300?

With the Israeli F-35 in the mix, things can get tricky.

The S-300 that Iran got is heavily upgraded and designed to Iran’s specifications and is probably closer in capability to S-400 than S-300 as Russia stopped production in S-300 a few years ago.

While Iran could talk with Russia for S-400 or maybe even S-500 future delivery. I doubt the Russians can be counted on to deliver. Just look at how long it is taking Turkey and Saudi Arabia to recieve S-400.
 
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The S-300 that Iran got is heavily upgraded and designed to Iran’s specifications and is probably closer in capability to S-400 than S-300 as Russia stopped production in S-300 a few years ago.

While Iran could talk with Russia for S-400 or maybe even S-500 future delivery. I doubt the Russians can be counted on to deliver. Just look at how long it is taking Turkey and Saudi Arabia to recieve S-400.

Lol why should Iran spent money for buy new S-400 while Iran could upgrade their S-300PMU-2 to S-400 with Russian request,S-400 is just a development of S-300PMU-2'
 
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exactly, S-400 is "just" S-300 PMU-3 (better radars....)

Afaik Iran technologically surpassed S-300 PMU-2, so for Iran only S-500 would make sense to purchase, if necessary, but I doubt Iran will go for it, instead they will pump the money in its own R&D

Anyway, short and medium AD systems are more important, I hope we will see Irans breakthrough in this fields:

Raad-Family (3rd Kordad, Tabas....)
Talash-Family (Sayyad....)
Mersad
Herz-9
Ya Zahra
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...
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