Iran unveils hypersonic weapon 'Fattah'

[Philosopher]

I really want to troll you on this,

Trolling is the only thing you're capable of attempting. The issue you have is you're not even a good troll. You're just getting slapped around.

but why bother trolling someone who is trolled by their own government by producing such propoganda every day.

You're describing your own country here. Stick to being humiliated by Pakistan, seems the only thing your nation is capable of.

Yes Iranian missile technology is as great as its fighter jet technology, who can forget the Qaher 313 intergalactic space ship.

You're getting desperate now. Trust me, insulting India is quite easy for me if I wanted to do so. I'd be spoild for choice choosing which area to humiliate your country on.

Ok here is an American MaRV missile
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pershing_II now tell me how different does this MaRV look from your supposedly hypersonic glide vehicle
How The f*** will it glide in mid course it's shape does not allow for that.
That wedge shape is a prerequisite for gliding in the midcourse because the conical shape will not generate enough lift for it to glide.



Which US hypersonic system is conical in shape. AARW is wedge shaped and so is LRHW, HACM is a hypersonic cruise missile, so come again which hypersonic glide vehicle is conical in shape.

You're making yourself look like an imbecile. The wedge shaped HGV is one type of glide system. Another shape for example is the American "Common Hypersonic Glide vehicle:

"The Common-Hypersonic Glide Body (C-HGB) is a weapon system that uses a booster rocket motor to accelerate to hypersonic speed and then jettisons the expended rocket booster. The glide body continues to fly at hypersonic speed, bouncing over the upper atmosphere and into space in a series of ‘leaps’, each leap changes the trajectory of the glide body, thus determines the final impact point. "

Lockheed Martin, Dynetics to Build a Hypersonic Missile System for the US Army - Defense Update:

Lockheed Martin and Dynetics Technical Solutions (DTS) have both won contracts to develop and supply hypersonic weapon systems to the US Army. Lockheed Martin will be the prime contractor for the land-mobile Long-Range Hypersonic Weapon (LRHW) system, while Dynetics primes the development and...

defense-update.com

t's shape is not aerodynamic enough to allow it to glide without an engine in the mid course

Nonsense. As shown above, various shapes can be utilised.

, it's needs an engine pushing it forward all the time to keep flying in the midcourse so you saying it's engine will only kick in in final phase is just bonkers.

I have already explained to you why this is the case:


"Now, when the Fattah gets around few 100's of KM from its taget, its motor kicks it allowing it to performs much more kinematic maneuvers defating any curren air defence. By keeping its more extensive manoeuvres for the final stages, the system essentially reduces the amount of time the warhead experiences the relatively more extreme conditions, which, like I mentioned earlier allows for more economical mass production due to lower system cost."

Do you need me to dumb it down for you even more?

The only possible explanation I have for this missile is that it's a quasi ballistic missile with a MaRV warhead.

Iran has had quasi BM with MaRV for years. This is a glide system:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666044730730225665

But in that case it can not attain a speed of mach 12 as you guys claim, for that you will need a longer and more powerful midcourse burn time (which the tiny engine of the Iranian glide vehicle can not provide). Even the DF ZF can not attain a speed of mach 12.
So this Iranian missile is not exactly a glide vehicle but can be considered a hypersonic missile, it's more closer to Iskander than DF ZF.

I think your main issue is you think all hypersonic missiles have to satisfy the wedge shape characteristics. Like I have explained to you many times, there are many ways to create these systems, they're not all the same. No one is claiming this is a wedge shaped hypersonic system with that exact characteristics, however it is a hypersonic system with glide capabilities. If you can't comprehend these not so nuances, then stick to something you actually understand.

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

How fast should it be ?

 

[SecularNationalist]

5th Country in the world

2nd stage booster means no ABM can stop this guy

So this is what Iran got in exchange for delivering drones to Russia.
No way Iran can have a hypersonic tech that fast. Russians for sure helped Iran a lot or we can also say this missile has a made in Russia engine and components.

 

[Blue In Green]

Trolling is the only thing you're capable of attempting. The issue you have is you're not even a good troll. You're just getting slapped around.




You're describing your own country here. Stick to being humiliated by Pakistan, seems the only thing your nation is capable of.



You're getting desperate now. Trust me, insulting India is quite easy for me if I wanted to do so. I'd be spoild for choice choosing which area to humiliate your country on.



You're making yourself look like an imbecile. The wedge shaped HGV is one type of glide system. Another shape for example is the American "Common Hypersonic Glide vehicle:

"The Common-Hypersonic Glide Body (C-HGB) is a weapon system that uses a booster rocket motor to accelerate to hypersonic speed and then jettisons the expended rocket booster. The glide body continues to fly at hypersonic speed, bouncing over the upper atmosphere and into space in a series of ‘leaps’, each leap changes the trajectory of the glide body, thus determines the final impact point. "

Lockheed Martin, Dynetics to Build a Hypersonic Missile System for the US Army - Defense Update:

Lockheed Martin and Dynetics Technical Solutions (DTS) have both won contracts to develop and supply hypersonic weapon systems to the US Army. Lockheed Martin will be the prime contractor for the land-mobile Long-Range Hypersonic Weapon (LRHW) system, while Dynetics primes the development and...

defense-update.com

Nonsense. As shown above, various shapes can be utilised.




I have already explained to you why this is the case:


"Now, when the Fattah gets around few 100's of KM from its taget, its motor kicks it allowing it to performs much more kinematic maneuvers defating any curren air defence. By keeping its more extensive manoeuvres for the final stages, the system essentially reduces the amount of time the warhead experiences the relatively more extreme conditions, which, like I mentioned earlier allows for more economical mass production due to lower system cost."

Do you need me to dumb it down for you even more?



Iran has had quasi BM with MaRV for years. This is a glide system:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666044730730225665

I think your main issue is you think all hypersonic missiles have to satisfy the wedge shape characteristics. Like I have explained to you many times, there are many ways to create these systems, they're not all the same. No one is claiming this is a wedge shaped hypersonic system with that exact characteristics, however it is a hypersonic system with glide capabilities. If you can't comprehend these not so nuances, then stick to something you actually understand.

There seems to be a difficulty in understanding that HGVs come in different shapes and sizes.

Idk, maybe when Iran releases a “Wedge” shaped HGV missile. Then the relentless denial will stop.

 

[Philosopher]

I don't know what this Fattah thing is but it isn't a glide vehicle.

It is a glide system, just not the same as the so called "wedge shaped" systems.

The glide phase of an HGV implies absence of onboard thrust.

That's not necessarily the case. Sure you can go without the need of such a TVC booster, but I have explained why Iran chose to go for this version.

Since the final phase of flight for this missile is powered it isn't a glide vehicle

According to who? The missile glides through its mid course but not extensively like a wedge shaped version, this is to reduce thermal load. It activates the booster few 100kms form its target to allow it to perform more energy bleed counter ABM defence maneuvers.

It is a hypersonic glide vehicle, just a different version.

.Beside you can't throttle a solid fueled motor so the only thing keeping this thing on target is the thrust vector controls.

So what?

Also, the US has been intercepting Mach 5 cruise missiles since the 1960's so if this thing slows down to Mach 5 in its final phase it isn't invulnerable to interception.

I think you're missing the point. The issue is by the time this warhead is reaching its target, you will not have the time to actually target it reliably. Your response time will be minimal.

The US even purchased Mach 5 anti-ship cruise missiles from Russia in the 90's to test against the sea sparrows.

When you manage to shoot down something like this Fattah then we can talk. It's not impossible, but US is not there yet. And wont be there for a while.

finally lets addresses the fools that think this can be used against non stationary targets. How? without onboard sensors solely relying on INS/GPS? You can't use off board sensors to cue a hypersonic missile due to something called latency especially at distances as large as it's claimed 1,000 km range.


.

Even though non-stationary targets like ships travel very slowly, I do see your point. However bare in mind, one way to help mitigate this issue is using multi-munition warheads. The Khoramshahr-4 missile for example which was shown couple of weeks back can carry 80 bomblets.

 

[LeGenD]

It s sad you say this in this Iranian achievement. Pakistan is a neighbourn country and can benefit of Iranian leadership. Region needs a strong country, capable to defend people, Iran is capable of that, and this a nice step froward.

To have envy of Iranian military progress is not the way, to critize or Iranians does is nonsense, and to say iranians are arrogants is mad funny, having in account other have come to this region to kill people and impose it s foreign views.

I hats off of Iran and i hats off of Pakistan if similar advances are done by your country.

My apologies. I have always appreciated Iranian technological achievements.

I shall do this again:

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Congratulations. This missile looks good and might be one of the best in its class.

@ReasonableStar75

My message is simple. Be realistic and humble in your claims. This is what Allah Almighty expects from good Muslims. Allah Almighty absolutely dislikes "arrogance."

Two examples come to mind:

Titanic was touted as being unsinkable but sank in its maiden voyage.

Kinzhal missile was touted as being unstoppable but it was shot down in Kyiv repeatedly.

Propaganda is the art of Kuffar, not Muslims.

 

[Foinikas]

My apologies. I have always appreciated Iranian technological achievements.

I shall do this again:



Congratulations. This missile looks good and might be one of the best in its class.

Or you can just bring in MMM-E and have a party of "Mine is bigger and thicker".

 

[Philosopher]

Just to clear any confusion. This missile is a Hypersonic Glide Vehicle (HGV), but not a wedge shaped hypersonic glide vehicle. The wedge shaped version have their own advantages and also disadvantages, which is why Iran has not gone for that form in this missile. The wedge shapes system have a great deal of thermal load and actually slow down considerably as they approach their targets. Iran's solution? Don't glide as extensively during the mid course but when you near the target gain a boost in kinematics via a solid booster, this allows the system to keep its energy for the end point whilst still manoeuvring enough during is mid course to confuse enemy air defence. This also greatly reduce price per missile as the warhead does not require as expensive material to deal with the thermal load.

This Iranian version of HGV is much better for conventional warheads!

Some member are just misinformed and thinking All HGVs= wedge shapes.
It's like thinking all cruise missiles have to be shaped like tomahawk.
I understand the confusion, but just remember not all hypersonic have to "look" the same.

 

[mohsen]

So this is what Iran got in exchange for delivering drones to Russia.
No way Iran can have a hypersonic tech that fast. Russians for sure helped Iran a lot or we can also say this missile has a made in Russia engine and components.

Yeah sure, everyone can sell some weapons to Russia and receive top notch classified tech!
lol

 

[Philosopher]

What a beautiful missile!

 

[Blue In Green]

What a beautiful missile!

FATTAH should be prioritized in production/fielding output if it hasn’t already. It’s a game changer of a weapons system, that much is certain.

 

[dbc]

It is a glide system, just not the same as the so called "wedge shaped" systems.



That's not necessarily the case. Sure you can go without the need of such a TVC booster, but I have explained why Iran chose to go for this version.




According to who? The missile glides through its mid course but not extensively like a wedge shaped version, this is to reduce thermal load. It activates the booster few 100kms form its target to allow it to perform more energy bleed counter ABM defence maneuvers.

It is a hypersonic glide vehicle, just a different version.




So what?




I think you're missing the point. The issue is by the time this warhead is reaching its target, you will not have the time to actually target it reliably. Your response time will be minimal.




When you manage to shoot down something like this Fattah then we can talk. It's not impossible, but US is not there yet. And wont be there for a while.





Even though non-stationary targets like ships travel very slowly, I do see your point. However bear in mind, one way to help mitigate this issue is using multi-munition warheads. The Khoramshahr-4 missile for example which was shown couple of weeks back can carry 80 bomblets.

during the glide phase of flight there is no onboard thrust that is the definition of glide. They teach this in basic flight school. The Space Shuttle was a hypersonic glide vehicle upon reentry into the earth's atmosphere it travels at MACH 25. For the shuttle reentry to landing is unpowered i.e. no onboard thrust.

The Iranian missile is hypersonic but it isn't a glide vehicle. Glide vehicles need a lifting surface, the Fattah has none.

A glide is a basic maneuver in which the airplane loses altitude in a controlled descent with little or no engine power. Forward motion is maintained by gravity pulling the airplane along an inclined path, and the descent rate is controlled by the pilot balancing the forces of gravity and lift. Airplane Glides Introduces essential pilot skills and knowledge to fly airplanes and helicopters; aids student pilots in learning to fly; improves flying proficiency www.flight-study.com

Even though non-stationary targets like ships travel very slowly

A nuclear powered aircraft carrier can travel at 40 knots indefinitely. In five minutes the carrier can travel 6.2 km at 40 knots.

 

[Blue In Green]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1666075396033622016

 

[Philosopher]

during the glide phase of flight there is no onboard thrust that is the definition of glide.

The missile does not utilise this rocket booster during is mid course glide phase. It is turned nearer to the end.
Semantics aside, I don't see any reason why a booster cannot be added to a HGV for its end phase for obvious reasons. Call it a boosted HGV if you want.

The Iranian missile is hypersonic but it isn't a glide vehicle. Glide vehicles need a lifting surface, the Fattah has none.

What lifting surfaces do you see on the American common hypersonic glide vehicle that you don't think Iranian Fattah has?

Iranian Fattah may have a different lift:drag ratio but to say it cannot function as a HGV is completely false. Look here:

It can function as a HGV, just with a lower lift to drag ratio.

 

[lydian fall]

The painful part is :

It cannot shot down by enemies for decades

And it can arm with a tactical nuclear warhead in future (my opinion)