Iran ranks 1st in intl. Olympiad on Astronomy and Astrophysics

[Madali]

Remember, if we have 2 smart persons and 0% brain drain, we have 2 smart people.

If we have 10 smart people, and 10% brain drain, that's 9 remaining which is better than the above figure of 0%.

And if we have 100,000 smart kids and 30% brain drain, that's 70,000 smart kids!

So, in conclusion, to the kids that are studying their asses of, if some want to leave, God bless amd good luck to them! And inshallah they will be successful and happy whereever they go. Let our job be to always churn out the smartest, best, most creative, and kindest children in the world and if some of them go to other countries, its not a source of shame, but something to be proud of.

Let me use it in a business sense. Our companies policy is to always train and empower the employees as much as they can. We do it so well that some not only leave for other better paid jobs but some actually start their own businesses and become our competitors! But we don't mind! It makes us proud not depressed! So many people have told me to change the style (don't train so much, have binding contracts, don't let them go to competitors, etc) but we and myself don't listen. I've even actually helped one of them find a job in a competitor (I was friends with them).

My own manager once told me, don't be scared of investing money on people and them leaving. Be scared of not investing in them and them staying.

Reread that last part and think about it. It's one of the most important things I have been advised in business.

 

[Daneshmand]

Good for U.S!

You jealous bro?

Congrats to those students .
baghiash ham " bakhshi az ghoroore kazebe yek mellat ".
Brain drain !! hala mage Oonayishon ke moondan azeshon estefade khaasi mishe? boorsiyeha ham ke didim be kia mirese ..

Wonderful reply. Ma naft darim. Gaz darim. Beza ina beran. Vala to Iran jayi barai ina nist. Mageh Iran radio telescope dareh ya seti dareh ya SIRTF dareh. Pool e naft bayad biad sar e sofreh. In mohemeh.

No need to get jealous. As I wrote in my above reply.

these Olympiads have only one goal and that's identifying the brains in other countries for free. that's it. nothing more, no more goal, nothing, tell me if you know some thing.
so regardless of the performance of our system, I will never support such events.
meanwhile wile you are bragging about your countrymen and calling me whinning, Americans are collecting their prize!
good for them!

and about doing something for these kids, all I can do is to criticize the government (who suspends their research projects) in this forum which nobody care about these incidents as long as it's against their hero Rohani!

Ok. Then you should also identify their brains and invite them to Iran. Just like they do. With full array of scholarship, jobs and respect. Just like they do.

What is stopping you?

Remember, if we have 2 smart persons and 0% brain drain, we have 2 smart people.

If we have 10 smart people, and 10% brain drain, that's 9 remaining which is better than the above figure of 0%.

And if we have 100,000 smart kids and 30% brain drain, that's 70,000 smart kids!

So, in conclusion, to the kids that are studying their asses of, if some want to leave, God bless amd good luck to them! And inshallah they will be successful and happy whereever they go. Let our job be to always churn out the smartest, best, most creative, and kindest children in the world and if some of them go to other countries, its not a source of shame, but something to be proud of.

Let me use it in a business sense. Our companies policy is to always train and empower the employees as much as they can. We do it so well that some not only leave for other better paid jobs but some actually start their own businesses and become our competitors! But we don't mind! It makes us proud not depressed! So many people have told me to change the style (don't train so much, have binding contracts, don't let them go to competitors, etc) but we and myself don't listen. I've even actually helped one of them find a job in a competitor (I was friends with them).

My own manager once told me, don't be scared of investing money on people and them leaving. Be scared of not investing in them and them staying.

Reread that last part and think about it. It's one of the most important things I have been advised in business.

That is an excellent advice. Do you think the government is running things accordingly?

 

[jammersat]

good for iran , i hope iran breaks new frontiers , like the sound barrier

 

[yavar]

these Olympiads have only one goal and that's identifying the brains in other countries for free. that's it. nothing more, no more goal, nothing, tell me if you know some thing.
so regardless of the performance of our system, I will never support such events.
meanwhile wile you are bragging about your countrymen and calling me whinning, Americans are collecting their prize!
good for them!

and about doing something for these kids, all I can do is to criticize the government (who suspends their research projects) in this forum which nobody care about these incidents as long as it's against their hero Rohani!

100% agree

 

[scythian500]

brain drain phenomenon has different meaning sin different brain exporters. in case of Iran, Iran after revolution, had a huge population growth for a decade or more. This created a big young generation in the age of university attendance. Then Iran made huge investments in new universities to cover these demand. Then, suddenly, millions of newly graduate Iranians poured into Iranian Job markets. Not only Iran, but no other country could accommodate that tide of job seekers.

This is why, Iranian government under Khatami, started to openly sign treaties to export some of them in a win-win deal. Iran joined Working & Holiday program with Australia and some other ones. Actually, there were no sufficient jobs for all graduates. Iran had no choice but to let some of them to seek employment in other countries.

Exporting brains had many advantages for Iran. Iran avoided a national security problem by exporting some of in-responded job seekers to overseas. A percentage , even though small, of these exports, brought and still bringing back science and tech updates back to the home land. The percentage of those left Iran as brains are not big comparing to the millions stayed in Iran. Iran had a big young generation coming to live due to population regulations back then. Iran had no jobs for all of them, so encouraged them to postpone their first job and continue their higher education. Actually, this is the main reason behind today's very educated Iranian human capital.

Iranian government somehow controlled this wave, preserved it for the days that Iran can provide them with jobs. Now, Iranian science and tech sector is benefiting a lot from this generation. It is very ideal to have jobs for millions of newly graduates but it is not reality. Maybe in coming years with extension of tens of thousands of new science and tech companies in private sector a big part of these talented guys find their dream job back home.

so, brain drain is no big deal for Iran as some ignorant people are trying to portray it. It has minimal effects but the whole picture is a win-win phenomenon for both Iran and brains themselves.

 

[rmi5]

brain drain phenomenon has different meaning sin different brain exporters. in case of Iran, Iran after revolution, had a huge population growth for a decade or more. This created a big young generation in the age of university attendance. Then Iran made huge investments in new universities to cover these demand. Then, suddenly, millions of newly graduate Iranians poured into Iranian Job markets. Not only Iran, but no other country could accommodate that tide of job seekers.

This is why, Iranian government under Khatami, started to openly sign treaties to export some of them in a win-win deal. Iran joined Working & Holiday program with Australia and some other ones. Actually, there were no sufficient jobs for all graduates. Iran had no choice but to let some of them to seek employment in other countries.

Exporting brains had many advantages for Iran. Iran avoided a national security problem by exporting some of in-responded job seekers to overseas. A percentage , even though small, of these exports, brought and still bringing back science and tech updates back to the home land. The percentage of those left Iran as brains are not big comparing to the millions stayed in Iran. Iran had a big young generation coming to live due to population regulations back then. Iran had no jobs for all of them, so encouraged them to postpone their first job and continue their higher education. Actually, this is the main reason behind today's very educated Iranian human capital.

Iranian government somehow controlled this wave, preserved it for the days that Iran can provide them with jobs. Now, Iranian science and tech sector is benefiting a lot from this generation. It is very ideal to have jobs for millions of newly graduates but it is not reality. Maybe in coming years with extension of tens of thousands of new science and tech companies in private sector a big part of these talented guys find their dream job back home.

so, brain drain is no big deal for Iran as some ignorant people are trying to portray it. It has minimal effects but the whole picture is a win-win phenomenon for both Iran and brains themselves.

The critical point that you are missing is that all talented people are not equal. Emigration of a sharif graduate is not equal to emigration of a Payam Nour graduate. Iran is basically losing her best talents that are no replacement for them. As an example, from my class of graduation in our department, almost all talented ones have emigrated to US. There is simply no way to replace them.

Remember, if we have 2 smart persons and 0% brain drain, we have 2 smart people.

If we have 10 smart people, and 10% brain drain, that's 9 remaining which is better than the above figure of 0%.

And if we have 100,000 smart kids and 30% brain drain, that's 70,000 smart kids!

So, in conclusion, to the kids that are studying their asses of, if some want to leave, God bless amd good luck to them! And inshallah they will be successful and happy whereever they go. Let our job be to always churn out the smartest, best, most creative, and kindest children in the world and if some of them go to other countries, its not a source of shame, but something to be proud of.

Let me use it in a business sense. Our companies policy is to always train and empower the employees as much as they can. We do it so well that some not only leave for other better paid jobs but some actually start their own businesses and become our competitors! But we don't mind! It makes us proud not depressed! So many people have told me to change the style (don't train so much, have binding contracts, don't let them go to competitors, etc) but we and myself don't listen. I've even actually helped one of them find a job in a competitor (I was friends with them).

My own manager once told me, don't be scared of investing money on people and them leaving. Be scared of not investing in them and them staying.

Reread that last part and think about it. It's one of the most important things I have been advised in business.

Read my reply to Scythian. Also, there are some points that you are missing. What if instead of 30% brain drain, you were running a company with 95% brain drain, and none of these 95% were staying in your company even for 1 day. You would have been bankrupt, right?

these Olympiads have only one goal and that's identifying the brains in other countries for free. that's it. nothing more, no more goal, nothing, tell me if you know some thing.
so regardless of the performance of our system, I will never support such events.
meanwhile wile you are bragging about your countrymen and calling me whinning, Americans are collecting their prize!
good for them!

You are delusional if you think these olympiads are deliberately designed to collect all of those students. Those students, themselves, are very much willing to apply to US universities, and those olympiads medals are not even that much important in their resume.

and about doing something for these kids, all I can do is to criticize the government (who suspends their research projects) in this forum which nobody care about these incidents as long as it's against their hero Rohani!

If you want to keep these students, there are many points that need to be corrected:
1. The ridiculous 2 years obligatory military service needs to be abolished.
2. Students need to be paid for their doctoral thesis.
3. Universities need to pay for their travel costs to conferences.
4. Industry needs to cooperate and finance their higher education, and give them specific projects.
5. old fart uneducated professors need to be retired.
6. School officials and government officials need to learn to respect students, right now they treat students like they are criminals.
7. Research equipments of Universities are old garbage. I remember the first aid kit of our laboratories had "Shir va khorshid e Sorkh" sign. Industry, military, government, ... needs to pay for renovation.
8. There should be job security after graduation. In US, I can easily get jobs with 100k+ dollars per year salary, while Sharif students who did not leave Iran, will get 800,000 Toman per month. The gap is too ridiculous.
These are the basic stuff that needs to be fixed. Other wise, talking about scientific progress is BS. To all delusionals who talk about increase in number of papers during Ahmadinejad, I need to say that a couple of years ago, Vezaarat Oloum passed a law, and forced faculty of Saraasari universities to tighten their *** and publish x amount of papers per year. Then, the number of published papers jumped up quickly! It was not a bad decision, but the quality of many of these papers are not something that they can brag about.

@Serpentine @haman10 @rahi2357 @2800 @Abii @scythian500 @Shahryar Hedayati

@The Last of us

@Siavash @JEskandari @SOHEIL

 

[haman10]

good for iran , i hope iran breaks new frontiers , like the sound barrier

i bet you're one of those people who jerks off to his own selfie .

i mean C'mon

 

[rahi2357]

2. Students need to be paid for their doctoral thesis.
3. Universities need to pay for their travel costs to conferences.

Why do you say that rmi ?? We already have such Universities in Iran . It's called " hozeye elmiyeh "

Wonderful reply. Ma naft darim. Gaz darim. Beza ina beran. Vala to Iran jayi barai ina nist. Mageh Iran radio telescope dareh ya seti dareh ya SIRTF dareh. Pool e naft bayad biad sar e sofreh. In mohemeh.

No need to get jealous. As I wrote in my above reply.

Bro , I didn't say that .But If you look for solutions (and not delusions ) , Then there are so many things need to be changed first :

If you want to keep these students, there are many points that need to be corrected:
1. The ridiculous 2 years obligatory military service needs to be abolished.
2. Students need to be paid for their doctoral thesis.
3. Universities need to pay for their travel costs to conferences.
4. Industry needs to cooperate and finance their higher education, and give them specific projects.
5. old fart uneducated professors need to be retired.
6. School officials and government officials need to learn to respect students, right now they treat students like they are criminals.
7. Research equipments of Universities are old garbage. I remember the first aid kit of our laboratories had "Shir va khorshid e Sorkh" sign. Industry, military, government, ... needs to pay for renovation.
8. There should be job security after graduation. In US, I can easily get jobs with 100k+ dollars per year salary, while Sharif students who did not leave Iran, will get 800,000 Toman per month. The gap is too ridiculous.
These are the basic stuff that needs to be fixed. Other wise, talking about scientific progress is BS. To all delusionals who talk about increase in number of papers during Ahmadinejad, I need to say that a couple of years ago, Vezaarat Oloum passed a law, and forced faculty of Saraasari universities to tighten their *** and publish x amount of papers per year. Then, the number of published papers jumped up quickly! It was not a bad decision, but the quality of many of these papers are not something that they can brag about.

Well said .

 

[Shotgunner51]

Congrats to Iran!

Human capital is everything to the long term prosperity of a nation, with such an intelligent populace Iran shall move on the path of resurgence once the temporary limits like a restraining external environment are relieved!

 

[Daneshmand]

Why do you say that rmi ?? We already have such Universities in Iran . It's called " hozeye elmiyeh "


Bro , I didn't say that .But If you look for solutions (and not delusions ) , Then there are so many things need to be changed first :


Well said .

I think you misunderstood me. Sorry for that. You tell me what you can do as a setareh-shenas when the country does not even have a single worthy observatory; then what these guys should do in Iran? count the stars with their bare eyes as children do?

Khodetoon ghezavat konid:

وداع جامعه نجوم با نخستين رصدخانه خورشيدي كشور

بزرگترین طرح علمی ایران در آستانه تعطیلی

 

[Daneshmand]

That's sad indeed . I was trying to say that it's not their fault. They love their country but there is no other choice than leaving the country or being wasted . At least it's possible to encourage these talents to visit Iran sometimes so they can transfer their science back to the old country . Of course ! this needs a big amount of money, investment and respect. we can't encourage them with candy . But for now.. literally nobody cares man .. I don't even see a practical policy on this .

It is just tragic. What made me angry is that some of our compatriots can not see the reality. They claimed above, "US is stealing our talent". Not at all. It is Iran that is pushing these talents away. What is the total Iranian budget for the field of astronomy this year? Then how can we even expect these people remain in Iran. And this is also very wrong to bring in the "measurement of patriotism" into every thing. This is just so cheap. It is below the belt.

And the field of astronomy is actually quite an open field. If there are good observatories in Iran, even the American and European and Japanese astronomers will come to Iran. But when you do not have anything and you have not invested in any observatory or radio telescope or any other damn thing, then you should keep your mouth shut. This is the harsh fact. It is like you do not build any hospital and do not have any health budget and then you complain why Iranian doctors are leaving Iran and why no American doctor comes to practice in Iran. It is just an oxymoron.

 

[Arminkh]

Remember, if we have 2 smart persons and 0% brain drain, we have 2 smart people.

If we have 10 smart people, and 10% brain drain, that's 9 remaining which is better than the above figure of 0%.

And if we have 100,000 smart kids and 30% brain drain, that's 70,000 smart kids!

So, in conclusion, to the kids that are studying their asses of, if some want to leave, God bless amd good luck to them! And inshallah they will be successful and happy whereever they go. Let our job be to always churn out the smartest, best, most creative, and kindest children in the world and if some of them go to other countries, its not a source of shame, but something to be proud of.

Let me use it in a business sense. Our companies policy is to always train and empower the employees as much as they can. We do it so well that some not only leave for other better paid jobs but some actually start their own businesses and become our competitors! But we don't mind! It makes us proud not depressed! So many people have told me to change the style (don't train so much, have binding contracts, don't let them go to competitors, etc) but we and myself don't listen. I've even actually helped one of them find a job in a competitor (I was friends with them).

My own manager once told me, don't be scared of investing money on people and them leaving. Be scared of not investing in them and them staying.

Reread that last part and think about it. It's one of the most important things I have been advised in business.

Can't agree more.

Furthermore, in the current state, Iran needs more entrepreneurs than anything else. EQ is a much more important factor in determining who becomes a better entrepreneur than IQ.

Our top brains, have great IQ but 9 out of 10 lack the required EQ to succeed in business. So usually, they become successful employees not employers. You can just track the graduates from Sharif university for example and see what they are doing right now either in Iran or abroad. Good successful entrepreneurs are usually a rarity. They usually end up as university instructors or successful employees in high tech industries because that is what they are good at and doesn't need high EQ. While graduates from lower ranking universities are usually better at business because they were the ones who had lower IQ and higher EQ.

So overall, the brain drain issue is overrated. Iran can't keep most of it's high IQ (not EQ) people because we still don't have the industrial base to keep them satisfied. Those who could be absorbed, are happy with what they have or do in Iran. When and if the industry eventually pick up, more of those brains will remain. An 80 million strong nation never runs out of talent.

P.S. we need more of these kinds:
List of 55 School Drop Out Billionaires + Entrepreneurs | MyTopBusinessideas.com

 

[scythian500]

The critical point that you are missing is that all talented people are not equal. Emigration of a sharif graduate is not equal to emigration of a Payam Nour graduate. Iran is basically losing her best talents that are no replacement for them. As an example, from my class of graduation in our department, almost all talented ones have emigrated to US. There is simply no way to replace them.

your point makes sense but...

Iranian current and near future capacity for quality brains is already somehow filled with current ones who are employed by thousands of high tech companies or government or military research centers.

Normal procedure is to create new capacities and then call for employees... It is very rare to see top brains go start their won initiative when there is no infra or capacity for employing them.

There are practically three types of top brains in Iran:

1- Gherti Brains who not only seek for high paid jobs but also immigration to a place with free social life is well rooted in their minds even before starting the higher education. These kids can not live in a system like Iran. They feel chocked by the air let others alone.

2- Hizbullahi Brains who never get out of country.. maybe only to do Haj and Ziarah... These brains are the top human capital of current Iran. They do high tech stuff, with no little expectations... they love to live in a a social environment as Iran. These are the back bone of Iranian military and some of private research and high tech centers.

3- Ordinary at the middle guys who have no desire to change their social life, and will be happy to stay in Iran, working in any high tech center as long as they receive enough salaries.

So, it is true that many brains leave Iran, but it is also true that a bigger number of brains stay due to many reasons.
It is always better to have more brain stay in Iran, but as far as there are not enough centers to employ them or as far as there are limitations on social life, some of these brains will leave Iran. I personally see no threats through this so called brain drain. I believe, the existing diaspora will in some stage come back help Iran (not the government necessarily). I also believe with creating more capacities for high tech employment more of these will stay at home.

Due to my personal encounters with these guys outside Iran, the above mentioned is my belief. I could be wrong but it is my perception.

In near future Iran will even create more of these new high tech centers in many forms. The existing 9000 private high tech companies are going to grow very quick based on their own estimates. This probably will not bring back any diaspora, but at least keep more brains inside. and one other thing is that Iranian brain production far exceeds its current needs. This means, even though some of them leave Iran, we still have enough to nurture future developments. A prat of these brain drain never stay at home. Their motivation is not money or good jobs, they have different desires. I have seen some that are not going to stay for very naive reasons, like that they think that they can not bare driving culture of the people or things like this...

I'm very optimistic though... new developments... new research and high tech companies will keep much more brain involved in Iran and this is something happens automatically. A percentage of brain drain is natural and can not be avoided as it is the case for other industrial nations.

there are good hints in this page:

More precious than oil: Iranian Exiles returning home