What's new

Iran-Pakistan. The past, now and future.

I been on this website for 2-3 years now and all of sudden as soon as restrictions are lifted on Iran, I start seeing threads from Pakistan about Pakistan-Iran loveship and friendship.

I want to know, where was all this friendship when Iran had restrictions? It was mainly India and China supporting Iran

Anyway, I hope Iran and Pakistan become allies as it will be good for the region.
 
I been on this website for 2-3 years now and all of sudden as soon as restrictions are lifted on Iran, I start seeing threads from Pakistan about Pakistan-Iran loveship and friendship.

I want to know, where was all this friendship when Iran had restrictions? It was mainly India and China supporting Iran

Anyway, I hope Iran and Pakistan become allies as it will be good for the region.

And what did India do for Iran under US pressure. In the month of March India for the first time skipped buying of oil from Iran under US pressure.
Sorry I can't post the link since I am a new member but you can find it on Google.
 
Last edited:
Part 2 > From Post#2

I can already see our neighbours on the east are getting convulsions. I am not here to explain anything to them. I am here to try to explain my thoughts to Iranian's because of the importance I attach to that country. In doing so I understand we have had difficult times post 1979 but we should look beyond that. We should have our eyes set on the horizon.


I want to remind the Iranian's here to please look through your own (Persian) perspective. Do not please look through the Western perspective including the use of the word "India". As I said before if my name is "Cyrus" that does not make "me" Cyrus. Labels are not important. What they mean is important. Since the first "Cyrus" came along there have been many called "Cyrus" but non have been the "Cyrus" that you think in history.

This confusion over just a name is used by some people to create false histories and fabricate all sort of rubbish. If I can't frankly explain to the Persian's who wrote most history in this part of world I might as well give up right now.

The fact is Persia has had direct contact and relationship with what is now Pakistan from the dawn of time. Names change but we are talking about the history of our peoples and land. I ask Persian's to go to your own history books and your records to see the truth.

Achaemenid Persians had satrapies in South Asia. What were they called? Where we they? Lets look into this in detail. I have already posted a map of Achaemenid Persia where it is clear that what is now Pakistan is part of the Persian Empire. Let us look at exactly what Persian Behistun inscription, Nakshi- i-Rustam records say.

"King Darius says: These are the countries which are subject unto me, and by the grace of Ahuramazda I became king of them: Persia, Elam, Babylonia, Assyria, Arabia, Egypt, the countries by the Sea, Lydia, the Greeks, Media, Armenia, Cappadocia, Parthia, Drangiana, Aria, Chorasmia, Bactria, Sogdia, Gandara, Scythia, Sattagydia, Arachosia and Maka; twenty-three lands in all."

The Satrapies of the Achaemenid Persians

Darius' Behistun list includes 23 locations
  1. Persia,
  2. Elam,
  3. Babylonia,
  4. Assyria,
  5. Arabia,
  6. Egypt
  7. the countries by the Sea,
  8. Lydia,
  9. the Greeks,
  10. Media,
  11. Armenia,
  12. Cappadocia,
  13. Parthia,
  14. Drangiana,
  15. Aria,
  16. Chorasmia,
  17. Bactria,
  18. Sogdia,
  19. Gandara,
  20. Scythia,
  21. Sattagydia,
  22. Arachosia, and
  23. Maka

Some of these Satrapies were divided into smaller regions.Great Satrapy Harauvatiš/Arachosia was split into:-
  • 6.1. Central Main Satrapy Harauvatiš/Arachosia. #22
  • 6.2. Main Satrapy Zranka/Drangiana. #14
  • 6.3. Main Satrapy Maka/Gedrosia.
  • 6.4. Main Satrapy Θatagus/Sattagydia. #21
  • 6.5. Main Satrapy Hinduš
You need to then figure out where were Maka, Hindush, Sattagydia and Gandara. When you do the research you will find out that all these occupy what is today's Pakistan. This means most of Pakistan's ( about 6% are( Mohajirs ) migrants from India ) ancestors lived in one of those four satrapies. So when you hear Western historians talk of Persia and India they actually mean Persia and Maka, Hindus, Sattagydia and Gandhara and you can see on the map in the previous post where they are.

Gandhara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Maka (satrapy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sattagydians - Livius
Hindush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Achaemenid invasion of Indus valley is the Achaemenid military conquests of territories of South Asia of Indus river in 6th century BC, consisting mainly of modern-day Pakistan.[1] Achaemenid penetration into the modern Pakistan occurred in stages, starting from northern parts of Indus river and moving southward.

Provinces_of_the_Achaemenid_empire.png


Achaemenid Provinces during the rule of Darius I showing Hindush, Gedrosia, Sattagydia and Gandara all now in Pakistan today.

Of course if you choose to call "Hindush, Gedrosia, Gandara "Indian" today that your choice but from the map you can tell which land these were, what that land is called today and more importantly which peoples live there today.

Although Arabs invaded Sindh ( Hindush ) in 7th century but they did not go beyond Sindh. Rest of what is Pakistan today remained free from Arab rule. However over the next few centuries the majority population of Indus Valley had converted to Islam. This change was brought about by Persian speaking Sufi saints whose shrines are scattered all over Pakistan and continue to attract huge number of followers.

The subsequent rule of Muslim dynasties involved Persian language, Persian culture, Persian architecture infuse into South Asia and as Pakistan was the first point of contact it recieved the infusion the most. Being Muslim dominant Persian culture was indicator of high society. Persian continued to be the official language until the British removed it.

In 1849 most of what is now Pakistan was conquered by the British and merged into their colony which they named "British India". Two battles that resulted in most of what is Pakistan falling under British control were:

The ancient Achaemenid provinces of Sattagydia/Punjab -http://Battle of Gujrat | Second Sikh War | Britannica.com

The ancient Achaemenid provinc of Hindush/Sindh was captured by the British at the Battle of Miani - Battle of Miani | Sind-British conflict | Britannica.com

After 1900 the Muslim consciousness revolved around religion - Islam and culture which in this case was Persian or Persian hybrid. This can be seen in everything. The Muslims started to revolving around Urdu and the Hindu around Hindi. Both languages have the same core but the differance is the Muslims push toward Persian and Hindu toward Sanskrit. In other words the division. This divergence applied to everything. Urdu uses using Persian derived Nastaʿlīq. Culture, art, clothing. Similar to how the Western world adopts Latin or Greek in particular the high culture in the same way the Muslims adopted Persian and everything connected like food as "high culture". The Hindu did the opposite and pushed toward Sanskrit. This process still continues even today as Hindu fanatics try to erase anything the Muslims might have brought. In this case Muslim invariably equates to Persian as those invaders mostly had Persian culture.

Post 1920s as the Muslim movement for Pakistan took off it very appparent that Pakistan's founding fathers were heavily steeped in Persian traditions. This is not surprising as Persian was seen as the thing for Muslim's to differantiate them from Hindu culture. To be Muslim you added Persian words or culture. To be Hindu you tried to remove Persian words or culture to make it more pure Hindu.

AllamaIqbal21_0.jpg


This can be seen in most of the famous figures being conversant in Persian. Many wrote books on Islam or poetry or other subjects in Persian. Allama Iqbal the Mufakkir-e-Pakistan is man who concetualized the idea of Pakistan in 1930 with his famous speach:-

Allama Iqbal
Muhammad Iqbal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"India is a continent of human groups belonging to different races, speaking different languages, and professing different religions [...] Personally, I would like to see the Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sindh and Baluchistan amalgamated into a single State. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of North-West India".

Allahabad Address - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can see in his speach he is in fact asking for the ancient satrapies of Sattagydia(Punjab), Gandara(NWFP), Gedrosia(Balochistan) and Hindush(Sindh) to be made into Pakistan.

Some of his works:-

The Secrets of the Self - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Message from the East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Persian Psalms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gift from Hijaz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan's national anthem The Qaumi Taranah (Urdu: قومی ترانہ‎, Qaumī Tarānah pronounced [ˈqɔː.mi ˈt̪ə.rɑː.nɑ], lit. "National Anthem"), also known as Pāk Sarzamīn (Urdu: پاک سرزمین‎ is heavily Persianized Urdu.

Pāk sarzamīn shād bād
Kishwar-i ḥasīn shād bād
Tū nishān-i ʿazm-i ʿālī shān
Arẓ-i Pākistān!
Markaz-i yaqīn shād bād




Pāk sarzamīn kā niz̤ām
Quwwat-i Ukhuwwat-i ʿawām
Qaum, mulk, salt̤anat
Pāyindah tābindah bād!
Shād bād manzil-i murād



Parcam-i sitārah o-hilāl
Rahbar-i taraqqī o-kamāl
Tarjumān-i māẓī, shān-i ḥāl
Jān-i istiqbāl!
Sāyah-yi Khudā-yi Ẕū l-jalāl





In his book The Frontiers of Pakistan, Iranian scholar Dr. Mujtaba Razvi noted that, "almost without exception, Pakistan has enjoyed very cordial relations with Iran since its inception on 14 August 1947. Iran was the first country to recognise Pakistan as an independent state, and Shah of Iran was the first Head of State to come on a state visit to Pakistan in March 1950".[1] Since 1947, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the Founder of Pakistan, had advocated a pro-Iranian policy, and was the main architect of the policy that Pakistan was to pursue with regard to Iran.

However what is amazing is the degree to which Iran supported Pakistan in her wars with India. By the old saying "good friend in need is a friend indeed" Iran came out at the top. This something we in Pakistan should not forget. Some the things Iran dis for Pakistan:-

* In 1965 war "Iran helped Pakistan like as if it was under attack" Paigham-Ilmroze.
* Under CENTO Britain and US refused to help however Iran and Turkey gave 100% support.
* Iranian foreign ministry reacted vehemantly against India crossing the Lahore sector
* Iran gave jet fuel, gasoline, small arms, ammunition and medical supplies despite US disapproval. Iranian nurses were dispatched and helped in treating the war wounded.
* After Indian protests Iran even formally accepted that they were helping Pakistan.
* Iran leased fighter aircraft to Pakistan.

* In 1971 war Iran offered full unconditional support to Pakistan.
* A joint Ir-Pak air exercise was used to transfer Iranian fighers to Pakistan.
* Reports that Iranian and Turkish C-130s were used to ferry troops to East Bengal.
* Iranian airbases were available to PAF if needed.
* Iranian foreign minister openly declared "Iran was 100% with Pakistan".

Please read full text here for details:- Iran's Relation With Pakistan: A Strategic Analysis - Dr. Satyanarayan Pattanayak - Google Books

Iran, Pakistan and Nuclear Ambitions | Project Ploughshares

President Ayub Khan meets the Shah

13915563681_15d578e72b_b.jpg


Iranian stamp with President Ayub and the Shah

Mohammad-Rez%C4%81-Sh%C4%81h-Pahlav%C4%AB-1919-1980-Muhammad-Ayub-Khan-.jpg


Pakistan stamp with Shah and the Queen

6a01287677d52e970c0168e96c41a4970c-pi


And Iranian stamp

Mohammad_Ali_Jenah_Iran_stamp.jpg


Clearly Iran was the most allied of allied countries with Pakistan. The rupture began with 1979 and the revolution. Upto 1979 relations were governed by both countries interests with a secular outlook. However after 1979 religion entered the equation for the first time. When you start looking through the prism of religion the Shia/Sunni divergance begins to impact the relationship.

On top of this Pakistan joined USA and Saudia in the Afghan jihad. This in time would create more differances. In addition within Pakistan Saudi influence post 1980 began to increase and with that the Shia/Sunni issue bgan to impact internal politics. We are still suffering from that today evidenced by the attack on Punjab home minister.

Suicide attack in Pakistan kills Punjab home minister and at least eight others | World news | The Guardian

Today when I look Iran most will agree that Iran poses no threat to Pakistan. Iran would never allow it's land to be used directly or indirectly against Pakistan. I know we hear a lot about the much vaunted India/Iran alliance but the reality is it is lot of talk mostly by Indians. The reality is most of trade by Iran is with China. Indian trade is neglibible.

I think the wildcard is Saudia Arabia. If Saudia Arabia can be convinced to give up it's suicidal love of sectarian politics and hatred for Iran it would be a great thing. However unltimately it is for Pakistan to carve a balanced path between both Saudia knowing that it is the custodian of the holy places and Iran a neighbour we have had and known for the last 5,000 years and will do for the next 5,000 years.

I am certainly convinced that was we move forward over the next two decades our relations with Iran will go back to the way they were before 1979. 5,000 years of history is not about get erased by two decades.

The two neighbours, Germany and France who fought three wars, millions were killed on both sides can today be closest allies I can't see why we cannot have a similar future. We will.

Please excuse me for any grammar or spelling mistakes.

@Serpentine @Daneshmand

Quick facts: At least 50 million people in Pakistan speak Iranic languages and belong to the ethnic Iranian group. These include Kurdish in Turkey, Ossetian in Russia, Persian in Iran, Dari in Afghanistan,Tajik in Tajikistan, Pashto and Baloch in Pakistan.

Pashto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Balochi language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

sprachkarte-v2-0610-mit-rand.gif
 
Last edited:
now with the deal here
Iran and Pakistan can do a lot of business together
 
Good post, great history of Pakistan (real India)

Real? I used names of Persian satrapies as listed on the Behistan inscription. I tried to stay authentic to the Persian sources. I used exact transliteration.I have no idea what your "real India" is but let me refer to the Persian sources.

1. Hindush
2. Sattagydia
3. Gedrosia/Maka
4. Gandhara

Do you see anything there that reads "real India"? I don't. The only thing left is to transliterate those names to 2015. In 2015 they are Pakistan.

When you transliterate you can't cheat by playing with meanings. The exact transliteration has to be done. I give a example. Muhammed Ali the great boxer was Cassius Clay till in his 20s. If you found something that belonged to him in his youth marked "Casius Clay" according to your logic you would refuse to give it to Ali but find another person with name Clay and hand them it.

You choose to use the term "Ancient India" when no such term was in use then. We have Persian records showing the names of differant satrapies. We also know which geographic space these satrapies occupied. Thus when we translate them it is rather easy. For exampleBabylon is in Iraq today.


Iran and Pakistan share history, culture, language, religion and people (race). In ancient times while Pakistan (ancient India) was thriving in arts, music, dance, maths, science, culture, its neighbour India (name unknown) had naked people roaming around in jungles.

Yes, indeed true. Why are you insisting on calling Pakistan "ancient India". I already gave you what names the Persian used and no is "Ancient India". There is mention of Gandhara, Sattagydia, Hindush and Gedrosia. Are you not able to read the Persian names? Why do you insist on using Western ( English) labels that were applied post 16th century?

As regards to you "India" naked people or whatever you can open another thread and tell us what it was called then and what the peope were doing. This thread was only covering the Persian Satrapies of the Achaemenid period which thank god for the Persian were recorded on the Behistan Inscriptions etc.

Here is the list. Your more than welcome to find your "Ancient India" there because there is no record of such a thing.

The Satrapies of the Achaemenid Persians

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@yavar That is one idiot saying it. I already posted the findings of the PEW research but will do it again. Even he is retired 25 years ago.

Pakistan only country where majority views Iran positively: PEW - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
Iran’s Global Image Mostly Negative | Pew Research Center

However the most important question I would love to ask this ex chief. How much of the Pakistan armed forces are deployed on the Iranian border? Do you know how many? Almost ZERO. Compare that with Indian border ( 85%? ) and Afghan border (15%). All we have on Iranian border is few border guards. This speaks about the reality more than words.

Military deployment always exposes where the real danger is.
 
Last edited:
I can already see our neighbours on the east are getting convulsions. I am not here to explain anything to them. I am here to try to explain my thoughts to Iranian's because of the importance I attach to that country. In doing so I understand we have had difficult times post 1979 but I am not bothered about now. I am looking at the long distance. I have my eyes set on the horizon.

I want to remind the Iranian's here to please look through your own (Persian) perspective. Do not please look through the Western perspective including the use of the word "India". As I said before if my name is "Cyrus" that does not make "me" Cyrus. Labels are not important. What they mean is important. Since the first "Cyrus" came along there have been many called "Cyrus" but non have been the "Cyrus" that you think in history.

This confusion over just a name is used by some people to create false histories and fabricate all sort of rubbish. If I can't frankly explain to the Persian's who wrote most history in this part of world I might as well give up right now.

The fact is Persia has had direct contact and relationship with what is now Pakistan from the dawn of time. Names change but we are talking about the history of our peoples and land. I ask Persian's to go to your own history books and your records to see the truth.

Achaemenid Persians had satrapies in South Asia. What were they called? Where we they? Lets look into this in detail. I have already posted a map of Achaemenid Persia where it is clear that what is now Pakistan is part of the Persian Empire. Let us look at exactly what Persian Behistun inscription, Nakshi- i-Rustam records say.

"King Darius says: These are the countries which are subject unto me, and by the grace of Ahuramazda I became king of them: Persia, Elam, Babylonia, Assyria, Arabia, Egypt, the countries by the Sea, Lydia, the Greeks, Media, Armenia, Cappadocia, Parthia, Drangiana, Aria, Chorasmia, Bactria, Sogdia, Gandara, Scythia, Sattagydia, Arachosia and Maka; twenty-three lands in all."

The Satrapies of the Achaemenid Persians

Darius' Behistun list includes 23 locations

  1. Persia,
  2. Elam,
  3. Babylonia,
  4. Assyria,
  5. Arabia,
  6. Egypt
  7. the countries by the Sea,
  8. Lydia,
  9. the Greeks,
  10. Media,
  11. Armenia,
  12. Cappadocia,
  13. Parthia,
  14. Drangiana,
  15. Aria,
  16. Chorasmia,
  17. Bactria,
  18. Sogdia,
  19. Gandara,
  20. Scythia,
  21. Sattagydia,
  22. Arachosia, and
  23. Maka
Some of these Satrapies were divided into smaller regions.Great Satrapy Harauvatiš/Arachosia was split into:-

  • 6.1. Central Main Satrapy Harauvatiš/Arachosia. #22
  • 6.2. Main Satrapy Zranka/Drangiana. #14
  • 6.3. Main Satrapy Maka/Gedrosia.
  • 6.4. Main Satrapy Θatagus/Sattagydia. #21
  • 6.5. Main Satrapy Hinduš
You need to then figure out where were Maka, Hindush, Sattagydia and Gandara. When you do the research you will find out that all these occupy what is today's Pakistan. This means most of Pakistan's ( about 6% are( Mohajirs ) migrants from India ) ancestors lived in one of those four satrapies. So when you hear Western historians talk of Persia and India they actually mean Persia and Maka, Hindus, Sattagydia and Gandhara and you can see on the map in the previous post where they are.

Gandhara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Maka (satrapy) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sattagydians - Livius
Hindush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Achaemenid invasion of Indus valley is the Achaemenid military conquests of territories of South Asia of Indus river in 6th century BC, consisting mainly of modern-day Pakistan.[1] Achaemenid penetration into the modern Pakistan occurred in stages, starting from northern parts of Indus river and moving southward.

Provinces_of_the_Achaemenid_empire.png


Achaemenid Provinces during the rule of Darius I showing Hindush, Gedrosia, Sattagydia and Gandara all now in Pakistan today.

Of course if you choose to call "Hindush, Gedrosia, Gandara "Indian" today that your choice but from the map you can tell which land these were, what that land is called today and more importantly which peoples live there today.

Although Arabs invaded Sindh ( Hindush ) in 7th century but they did not go beyond Sindh. Rest of what is Pakistan today remained free from Arab rule. However over the next few centuries the majority population of Indus Valley had converted to Islam. This change was brought about by Persian speaking Sufi saints whose shrines are scattered all over Pakistan and continue to attract huge number of followers.

The subsequent rule of Muslim dynasties involved Persian language, Persian culture, Persian architecture infuse into South Asia and as Pakistan was the first point of contact it recieved the infusion the most. Being Muslim dominant Persian culture was indicator of high society. Persian continued to be the official language until the British removed it.

In 1849 most of what is now Pakistan was conquered by the British and merged into their colony which they named "British India". Two battles that resulted in most of what is Pakistan falling under British control were:

The ancient Achaemenid provinces of Sattagydia/Punjab -http://Battle of Gujrat | Second Sikh War | Britannica.com

The ancient Achaemenid provinc of Hindush/Sindh was captured by the British at the Battle of Miani - Battle of Miani | Sind-British conflict | Britannica.com

After 1900 the Muslim consciousness revolved around religion - Islam and culture which in this case was Persian or Persian hybrid. This can be seen in everything. The Muslims started to revolving around Urdu and the Hindu around Hindi. Both languages have the same core but the differance is the Muslims push toward Persian and Hindu toward Sanskrit. In other words the division. This divergence applied to everything. Urdu uses using Persian derived Nastaʿlīq. Culture, art, clothing. Similar to how the Western world adopts Latin or Greek in particular the high culture in the same way the Muslims adopted Persian and everything connected like food as "high culture". The Hindu did the opposite and pushed toward Sanskrit. This process still continues even today as Hindu fanatics try to erase anything the Muslims might have brought. In this case Muslim invariably equates to Persian as those invaders mostly had Persian culture.

Post 1920s as the Muslim movement for Pakistan took off it very appparent that Pakistan's founding fathers were heavily steeped in Persian traditions. This is not surprising as Persian was seen as the thing for Muslim's to differantiate them from Hindu culture. To be Muslim you added Persian words or culture. To be Hindu you tried to remove Persian words or culture to make it more pure Hindu.

AllamaIqbal21_0.jpg


This can be seen in most of the famous figures being conversant in Persian. Many wrote books on Islam or poetry or other subjects in Persian. Allama Iqbal the Mufakkir-e-Pakistan is man who concetualized the idea of Pakistan in 1930 with his famous speach:-

Allama Iqbal
Muhammad Iqbal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"India is a continent of human groups belonging to different races, speaking different languages, and professing different religions [...] Personally, I would like to see the Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sindh and Baluchistan amalgamated into a single State. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated North-West Indian Muslim State appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of North-West India".

Allahabad Address - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can see in his speach he is in fact asking for the ancient satrapies of Sattagydia(Punjab), Gandara(NWFP), Gedrosia(Balochistan) and Hindush(Sindh) to be made into Pakistan.

Some of his works:-
The Secrets of the Self - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Message from the East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Persian Psalms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gift from Hijaz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan's national anthem The Qaumi Taranah (Urdu: قومی ترانہ‎, Qaumī Tarānah pronounced [ˈqɔː.mi ˈt̪ə.rɑː.nɑ], lit. "National Anthem"), also known as Pāk Sarzamīn (Urdu: پاک سرزمین‎ is heavily Persianized Urdu.

Pāk sarzamīn shād bād
Kishwar-i ḥasīn shād bād
Tū nishān-i ʿazm-i ʿālī shān
Arẓ-i Pākistān!
Markaz-i yaqīn shād bād



Pāk sarzamīn kā niz̤ām
Quwwat-i Ukhuwwat-i ʿawām
Qaum, mulk, salt̤anat
Pāyindah tābindah bād!
Shād bād manzil-i murād


Parcam-i sitārah o-hilāl
Rahbar-i taraqqī o-kamāl
Tarjumān-i māẓī, shān-i ḥāl
Jān-i istiqbāl!
Sāyah-yi Khudā-yi Ẕū l-jalāl



In his book The Frontiers of Pakistan, Iranian scholar Dr. Mujtaba Razvi noted that, "almost without exception, Pakistan has enjoyed very cordial relations with Iran since its inception on 14 August 1947. Iran was the first country to recognise Pakistan as an independent state, and Shah of Iran was the first Head of State to come on a state visit to Pakistan in March 1950".[1] Since 1947, Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the Founder of Pakistan, had advocated a pro-Iranian policy, and was the main architect of the policy that Pakistan was to pursue with regard to Iran.

However what is amazing is the degree to which Iran supported Pakistan in her wars with India. By the old saying "good friend in need is a friend indeed" Iran came out at the top. This something we in Pakistan should not forget. Some the things Iran dis for Pakistan:-

* In 1965 war "Iran helped Pakistan like as if it was under attack" Paigham-Ilmroze.
* Under CENTO Britain and US refused to help however Iran and Turkey gave 100% support.
* Iranian foreign ministry reacted vehemantly against India crossing the Lahore sector
* Iran gave jet fuel, gasoline, small arms, ammunition and medical supplies despite US disapproval. Iranian nurses were dispatched and helped in treating the war wounded.
* After Indian protests Iran even formally accepted that they were helping Pakistan.
* Iran leased fighter aircraft to Pakistan.


* In 1971 war Iran offered full unconditional support to Pakistan.
* A joint Ir-Pak air exercise was used to transfer Iranian fighers to Pakistan.
* Reports that Iranian and Turkish C-130s were used to ferry troops to East Bengal.
* Iranian airbases were available to PAF if needed.
* Iranian foreign minister openly declared "Iran was 100% with Pakistan".


Please read full text here for details:- Iran's Relation With Pakistan: A Strategic Analysis - Dr. Satyanarayan Pattanayak - Google Books

President Ayub Khan meets the Shah

13915563681_15d578e72b_b.jpg


Iranian stamp with President Ayub and the Shah

Mohammad-Rez%C4%81-Sh%C4%81h-Pahlav%C4%AB-1919-1980-Muhammad-Ayub-Khan-.jpg


Pakistan stamp with Shah and the Queen

6a01287677d52e970c0168e96c41a4970c-pi


And Iranian stamp

Mohammad_Ali_Jenah_Iran_stamp.jpg


Clearly Iran was the most allied of allied countries with Pakistan. The rupture began with 1979 and the revolution. Upto 1979 relations were governed by both countries interests with a secular outlook. However after 1979 religion entered the equation for the first time. When you start looking through the prism of religion the Shia/Sunni divergance begins to impact the relationship.

On top of this Pakistan joined USA and Saudia in the Afghan jihad. This in time would create more differances. In addition within Pakistan Saudi influence post 1980 began to increase and with that the Shia/Sunni issue bgan to impact internal politics. We are still suffering from that today evidenced by the attack on Punjab home minister.

Suicide attack in Pakistan kills Punjab home minister and at least eight others | World news | The Guardian


Today when I look Iran most will agree that Iran poses no threat to Pakistan. Iran would never allow it's land to be used directly or indirectly against Pakistan. I know we hear a lot about the much vaunted India/Iran alliance but the reality is it is lot of talk mostly by Indians. The reality is most of trade by Iran is with China. Indian trade is neglibible.

I think the wildcard is Saudia Arabia. If Saudia Arabia can be convinced to give up it's suicidal love of sectarian politics and hatred for Iran it would be a great thing. However unltimately it is for Pakistan to carve a balanced path between both Saudia knowing that it is the custodian of te holy places and Iran a neighbour we have had and known for the last 5,000 years and will do for the next 5,000 years.

I am certainly convinced that was we move forward over the next two decades our relations with Iran will go back to the way they were before 1979. We have 5,000 years of history as neighbours.

Quick facts: At least 50 million people in Pakistan speak Iranic languages and belong to the ethnic Iranian group. These include Kurdish in Turkey, Ossetian in Russia, Persian in Iran, Dari in Afghanistan,Tajik in Tajikistan, Pashto and Baloch in Pakistan.

Pashto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Balochi language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


sprachkarte-v2-0610-mit-rand.gif
Good read, very well researched, please tag me in the third part, almost missed it.
 
Raja Dahir had a lot of Arab Muslim consultants for different branches of knowledge and arts. Even in his battle with Mohammad Bin Qasim, his army commander was an Arab Muslim. Many Hindu Rajas were progressive people and they liked to acquire knowledge and arts from anywhere else.
 
Clearly the region that is Pakistan today continued to be in the Persian realm. Even after invasion by Greeks things did not change. We in Pakistan region found ourselves being under Alexander's rule but and under the same administrative structure as the old Persian Empire. Please refer to the Alexander domain and his route,

. . .

During this time Zoroastrianism and Buddhism were dominant in Pakistan. This can be seen in Indo-Parthian Kingdom. Again when the term "Indo" is used people relate that with modern day India which is a mistake. In this case it refers to the River Indus in Pakistan.

I am a keen reader of Achaemenid history and Zoroastrianism and took a course on them both when i was at university so can tell you that what you have presented here is not correct.

Hendu / Hendi in Middle Persian (Indo / Indian in Latin/Greek) basically means 'Indian'. It was just a generic label for dark skinned natives of Pakistan and India. It didnt have any religious connotation to it like it does now, it was a racial label for South Asians. Hend and Hendustan in Persian historiography includes what is now central, eastern and southern Pakistan and basically the rest of India. Similar to how the Balkans and eastern Mediterranean in Middle Persian was generically called 'Rhum' (the old Greco-Roman heartlands).

Zoroastrianism never had any presence in South Asia until the 10th century CE when some Zoroastrian communities from Khorasan left Iran and eventually ended up taking refuge in western India in a coastal region called 'Saurashtra'. That was the first time in history that there had ever been any Zoroastrian community in the Indian subcontinent. The historical record for this first ever Zoroastrian migration to the east is a Middle Persian text called the Qissa-e Sanjan. The only other Zoroastrian migration eastwards that is known to have taken place was by the Sogdians and then the Sassanid elite to China after the Arab invasion but they all disappear from the Tang historical record a century or so after their migration and nobody knows what their fate in China became.

In the Avesta Zoroastrianism is tied to the Iranian identity and this is how the concept of Iran and Aniran came about in both the Iranian historical tradition and Persian mythology. It was never spread to foreigners until the later Sassanids tried to re-conquer and re-convert the Armenians well into the Christian era in the Middle East. Zoroastrianism was never spread east to South Asia or to any other conquered or vassal peoples, East or West.

The only non-Iranian peoples to have ever been Zoroastrian at some point in their history were the Armenians. Otherwise, Zoroastrians had been synonymous with the confederation of Iranian peoples (ie, the Ariya in Avestan and Old Persian). The 'Ariya' in Old Persian were the broadly the Persians, Medes, Parthians, Bactrians, Sogdians and Khwarazmians. The non-Zoroastrian Iranians, ie the various Scythian peoples of the north (Turan), were condemned for being 'Drujvant' and so fell outside of the Zoroastrian and Iranian fold, kind of like being expelled from the Ariya fold but were still considered to be a closely related kin to Iranians. All other peoples and lands were considered foreigners - Aniran, by the Achaemenids and Sassanids and so were subject to conquest and tribute to Persia whenever the great Kings of Iran decided to go to war against them.

Darius the Great basically invaded India to extract tribute from them and to subordinate this area of Aniran as vassals that would pay annual tributes in exchange for their freedom to govern their own local affairs. There wasnt actually a direct Persian presence in the three Indian vassal states beyond Darius the Great's invasion of India/Pakistan. You can read about the relations between Achaemenid Persia and South Asia in an archaeological survey undertaken by some historians from Cambridge University. The title of their paper is called "West of the Indus-East of the Empire: The Archaeology of the Pre-Achaemenid and Archaemenid Periods in Baluchistan and the North-West Frontier Province, Pakistan". According to the evidence for an Achaemenid influence in South Asia, which is quite limited, it was restricted mainly to the extreme northwest of what is now Pakistan, near the border with Afghanistan. There is practically no evidence for Achaemenid control in the rest of what is now Pakistan but small traces of Achaemenid influence can be found in some pockets there, probably as a result of occassional invasions to extract tribute from the natives and trade with the vassal states listed by Darius I.

If anyone wants to seriously read into Achaemenid history and Zoroastrianism i can recommened you some books to buy. Although be warned that many are quite dry and academic and are only intended for the serious rather than general reader, but they are in-depth and you will learn a lot about this great period of Iranian history.
 

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom