Iran-Pakistan joint defence projects

[The Last of us]

I thought I make this thread because I could not find another one like it.

I am not sure how to start off but I think Iran-Pakistan, as two neighbours, whom have good relations and in general Iranians and Pakistanis have brotherly relations, even in real life (I can testify to this on a personal level), why do you think there has been a lack of cooperation in the defence field?

Do you think the sanctions against Iran were a major reason, or do you think there is politics involved?

Pakistan is obviously an advanced nation in the military field and has good experience in variety of fields, such as in fighter jets, cruise missiles, armoured machines etc and Iran is quire advanced in the air-defence sector, submarine, missiles etc. There is no questions both countries can learn from each other and unfortunately, there is currently a void that could have been filled with Pakistan-Iran joint projects, but sadly there is nothing right now. Many nations undergo joint development in the military, why not Iran-Pakistan?

Don't you think Iran-Pakistan joint projects could also seriously improve our relations and our views on each other?

Which projects would you like to see Iran-Pakistan jointly develop?

The number one for me would be fighter jets obviously. What are your thoughts?


@Atanz @waz @Irfan Baloch @haviZsultan @Horus @WAJsal @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @black-hawk_101
@HAIDER @Arsalan @RAMPAGE @Luftwaffe @Pakistanisage @HRK @Syed Hussain @other Pakistani bros/sisters

Sorry if I forgot to mention anyone specifically. Anyway, lets keep this thread clean and full of good discussions

 

[kaonalpha]

Hmm , good point . I suppose it can be due to the fact that our government at large is not interested in dealing with Iran in terms of defense sectors.

 

[The Last of us]

Hmm , good point . I suppose it can be due to the fact that our government at large is not interested in dealing with Iran in terms of defense sectors.

Why do you think that would be bro? Pressure from the Americans or due to Pakistan-Saudi relations?

 

[haviZsultan]

I am all in support of cooperation with Muslim countries in developing new fighter aircrafts, submarines or in any other military or even civilian fields. But the truth is we are far behind in all technological fields from the west. The logic for Pakistan has been "since we cannot beat them we ally with them until we can outstrip them in technology". Iran's policy has been different. It has been that whatever we develop will be on our own because if you rely on a western state for one thing it will require you to ally for many others for example a fighter aircraft-you will next have to rely on the west fr AWAC's, air to land missles, cluster bombs and what not. This policy makes sense but all muslim states are far behind in technology and that means Iran does not have very advanced military. Iranians may differ in viewpoint about this but most of the world including Islamic nations do not have a view of the Iran military as a major power in the Islamic world.

This difference in military doctrine also speaks of a difference in general policy. Iran became a theocratic state while Pakistan became a partner of the US-both have suffered. Iran became isolated in the world and Pakistan suffered due to its closeness to US and failed to develop a reputation as an independent power, rather a stooge of the US despite things like Presler Amendment and other bullying from USA. So we have eaten our pride to play second fiddle to the US. We have no honor in reality.

In fact when you look at it many of my Lucknowi cousins felt Pakistan had abandoned its "Islamic state" principles and many gradually drifted away from it even though we are secularists-there has to be something Islamic in your policy-secularism and religion are not divergent paths-they can be one. Anyway I am from Lucknow, a region that had been taken over by India but with relatives there I can tell how our ruinous foreign policy has repelled muslims left in Indian occupied parts from us. But still we have China as an ally. Iran the way I see it is way to isolated and needs a major power as an ally.

I respect Iran for its strong foreign policy in regards to the west and for it trying indigenous production of its military needs. Iran was also the first country to accept Pakistan as a nation when it was born. So i and many other Pakistanis are very keen to develop relations with Iran. I want all Islamic nations to cooperate. We should work together, perhaps our engineers together can solve the problem of this dependence on the west.

 

[Goenitz]

besides that there should be student mobility programs among pak-iran universities...
and exchange of medical/engineering scientific work/professionals (like used to be in Shah's time)
at moment Iran needs urgent induction of tanks and modern air crafts.. though no neigbour impose any significant threat. SO iran for now should buy off shelf weapons and start some projects of interests with pakistan for future..

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I thought I make this thread because I could not find another one like it.

I am not sure how to start off but I think Iran-Pakistan, as two neighbours, whom have good relations and in general Iranians and Pakistanis have brotherly relations, even in real life (I can testify to this on a personal level), why do you think there has been a lack of cooperation in the defence field?

Do you think the sanctions against Iran were a major reason, or do you think there is politics involved?

Pakistan is obviously an advanced nation in the military field and has good experience in variety of fields, such as in fighter jets, cruise missiles, armoured machines etc and Iran is quire advanced in the air-defence sector, submarine, missiles etc. There is no questions both countries can learn from each other and unfortunately, there is currently a void that could have been filled with Pakistan-Iran joint projects, but sadly there is nothing right now. Many nations undergo joint development in the military, why not Iran-Pakistan?

Don't you think Iran-Pakistan joint projects could also seriously improve our relations and our views on each other?

Which projects would you like to see Iran-Pakistan jointly develop?

The number one for me would be fighter jets obviously. What are your thoughts?


@Atanz @waz @Irfan Baloch @haviZsultan @Horus @WAJsal @AZADPAKISTAN2009 @black-hawk_101
@HAIDER @Arsalan @RAMPAGE @Luftwaffe @Pakistanisage @HRK @Syed Hussain @other Pakistani bros/sisters

Sorry if I forgot to mention anyone specifically. Anyway, lets keep this thread clean and full of good discussions

starting slowly and steady approach will be best. specially re troubles in Baluchistan. we must together beat this greater Baluchistan game being played by some countries.
instead of starting somthing tom grand and big like pipeline and getting sapped in the end. I say we start close cooperation and cross training exchange of officers on courses re stemming smugglers and terrorists along Baluchistan/ seestan area. .. when the personal part is done we can move on to light and mobile vehciles to patrol the area, maybe drones, sharing intelligence to hunt and kill BLA, Jundullah and drug smugglers.
starting anything big like tanks, planes or drones will cause anal pain to some Arab countries despite the fact that they are the ones cozying up with India and might be involved in the unrest in Baluchstian and law and order situation in karachi which our governments are too afraid to say out loud


so start with Baluchistan. no country can bitch about Pakistani effort to bring peace in this province and if it is via help of Iran so be it.. after they get used to it then we can move to other civilian commercial projects slowly. if Pak-Iran gas pipeline gets a go ahead then we have potential to have defence ties too otherwise it will remain a dream

Why do you think that would be bro? Pressure from the Americans or due to Pakistan-Saudi relations?

both reasons are valid

our Finance minster who has billions dollars worth of real estate in UAE never explained to the nation why Saudi Arabia gave us 1.5 Billion dollars after the cancellations of Pak Iran gas project. our government fooled the public by saying because KSA is our brotherly Muslim country and special friend. people in finance and commerce knew its was pure dog shite. they dont give such large sums for free as a friendship.

 

[The Last of us]

I am all in support of cooperation with Muslim countries in developing new fighter aircrafts, submarines or in any other military or even civilian fields. But the truth is we are far behind in all technological fields from the west. The logic for Pakistan has been "since we cannot beat them we ally with them until we can outstrip them in technology". Iran's policy has been different. It has been that whatever we develop will be on our own because if you rely on a western state for one thing it will require you to ally for many others for example a fighter aircraft-you will next have to rely on the west fr AWAC's, air to land missles, cluster bombs and what not. This policy makes sense but all muslim states are far behind in technology and that means Iran does not have very advanced military. Iranians may differ in viewpoint about this but most of the world including Islamic nations do not have a view of the Iran military as a major power in the Islamic world.

Bro, there is no questions Iran is many years behind the west in the military sector. But that is no reason for us not to try and catch up. For example, I can see whenever Iran has invested in a particular field, it has shown good achievement, for example in the ballistic missile sector and the airdefence.

The west is more ahead because they in general have a much more advanced scientific industrial base. They're magnets for talented individuals from all around the world and these people go in the west and help fuel their scientific know how. This knowledge is then applied in their industries, such as military. Thus, we first need to actually develop our nations' scientific prowess and then apply those sciences in industries such as military. Iran has invested in science, if you look, you see Iran has ranked nicely in scientific journals, but there is little linkage between the knowledge gained and industries. For example, Iran may in nanotechnology find a way to increase efficiency of electronic circuits etc, but you will rarely see that actually be put into practise. Now compare that to likes of Germany. As soon as there is a new knowledge, method etc found in their universities/ research centres, that is sent to industries and they create products and export them etc. You just don't see that in places like Iran. Due to many factors, such a low budget, bad management, lack of proper facilities etc, there is little proper R&D being done. Hopefully that will change.

I am not going to pretend Iran-Pakistan joint development in military will change the situation in our countries, but atleast it will help mature our industries in some ways.

 

[Bilal.]

- Small arms
- SAM and related core technology
- Advance FnF ATGM

Tons more really. Both countries have similar defence RnD needs.

 

[Sipahi]

Before we move to defence, we have to create a strong economical relations, in current world economic alliance pave the path to defence alliances.

Pakistan is currently close with Arab states more then Iran and you knows that how the alliances works in Middle east, its always like you are with us or against us and in recent times there was a hostality between both nation due to sectarianism.

I personally will love to see the defence alliance between Pakistan, Iran and Turkiye but first we have to develop a close cooperation on other aspects other then only defence.

 

[RAMPAGE]

SAMs, MBTs, Armoured vehicles, Radars and small arms etc.

But lets start by completely securing the IR-PK border against militants and increase cooperation on the border.

Also, Iran should look into JF-17. Like us, they have alot of single engine fighters to replace.

 

[The Last of us]

both reasons are valid

our Finance minster who has billions dollars worth of real estate in UAE never explained to the nation why Saudi Arabia gave us 1.5 Billion dollars after the cancellations of Pak Iran gas project. our government fooled the public by saying because KSA is our brotherly Muslim country and special friend. people in finance and commerce knew its was pure dog shite. they dont give such large sums for free as a friendship.

To be fair, Pakistan's relations with Saudi arabia are no concern of Iran. Pakistan has the right to have relations with whomever it wants. But that relations should not stop Iran-Pakistan relations. I hope, the Pipeline is implemented and from then on, we'll see a serious taking off in our relations.

Pakistan is a nuclear power with a large population, such country wont be allowing itself to be restricted by wills of outsiders forever. Ultimately Pakistan will and should make its own decision with regards to whom it can have relations with. Even saudi arabia has relations with India, yet how can they ask Pakistan not to have relations with Iran?

SAMs, MBTs, Armoured vehicles, Radars and small arms etc.

But lets start by completely securing the IR-PK border against militants and increase cooperation on the border.

Also, Iran should look into JF-17. Like us, they have alot of single engine fighters to replace.

If I remember correctly, Iran and Pakistan wanted to make tanks jointly in the 70's? Such projects can happen again.
As for Jf-17, Who knows, maybe Iran-Pakistan-China could start a joint fifth gen project?

 

[RAMPAGE]

JF-17 is a potential replacement for 100+ F-5s, F-7s, and Mirage F1s.

BLK 3 will come with AESA, HMD, HOBS capability and IRST.

 

[The Last of us]

JF-17 is a potential replacement for 100+ F-5s, F-7s, and Mirage F1s.

BLK 3 will come with AESA, HMD, HOBS capability and IRST.

Has there ever been a project for a two engine Jf-17?

 

[RAMPAGE]

Has there ever been a project for a two engine Jf-17?

Nope.

 

[The Last of us]

Nope.

Seen a CGI of a potential stealthy Jf-17:

Looks nice. I think the Jf-17 platform has potential. Be great to see a stealthy version of it. This could be a project I would love to see Iran-Pakistan-China jointly develop.