‘Iran, Pakistan do not need US permission for ties’

[DV RULES]

Exactly. Pakistan has always yielded under pressure. Davis is an example of how we surrender on this front regularly. Furthermore another example is the India-Us nuclear deal on which we again surrendered. We have no foreign policy and are keen to surrender to US pressure. Kaira mistreated the minister for this project on US insistence as well. We have been delaying this and electricity rental project from Iran for many many years now. Time to revisit our foreign policy.

Do note it is rare for an unassertive nation to be anything in the world. South Korea, Japan China and even India are all assertive and have shown great economic growth throughout time. We cannot afford to be acquiescing but need to be assertive of our rights and Pakistani dignity. A servile nation invites aggression-that includes the raid US launched.

You are again starting from blame game, we didn't surrender but locked in our own rules suggested by our own hi profile officer, inability can't mean into surrender in US-India atomic deal, when government official's believe, faith, nationalism could be purchasable then also not means surrender.

Pakistan lost meanings of A NATIONALISM and until people will not wake up from their stupid every day thinking nothing possible to do and useless to comment.

To support Shia regime and influence in Pakistan government and more over completion of Pakistan-Iran Gas pipe line Iran came to this level where last reason impotant5 than others.

 

[Hobo1]

What remains to be seen with what will Pakistan pay for Iran gas. Probably in chinese currency . Any thing that iran wants from the west can some how be sourced from the china. From drugs to heavy machines.

 

[T-Rex]

Pakistan needs to get its policy straight. India has always been keen for the gas pipeline deal as well as has jailed Italians that killed Indians. Indians don't compromise on their dignity like we did with Davis. Its time to learn something and let relations with Iran and China improve. Hopefully Iran will get rid of the mullah.

It's because of the 'mullahs' that Iran has an independent foreign policy. On the other hand, it's because of the secular leaders in Pakistan that Pakistan has never had an independent foreign policy.

 

[haviZsultan]

You are again starting from blame game, we didn't surrender but locked in our own rules suggested by our own hi profile officer, inability can't mean into surrender in US-India atomic deal, when government official's believe, faith, nationalism could be purchasable then also not means surrender.

Pakistan lost meanings of A NATIONALISM and until people will not wake up from their stupid every day thinking nothing possible to do and useless to comment.

To support Shia regime and influence in Pakistan government and more over completion of Pakistan-Iran Gas pipe line Iran came to this level where last reason impotant5 than others.

Look these are my reasons for seeking a better relationship with them:

1) Nuke deal with India but refused to Pakistan
2) Davis kills 2 Pakistanis and escapes. There is no proof of Afia being a terrorist and still in jail and will be there forever.
3) Fazlullah hiding in Kunar. Faqir Mohammed's (Ex-Bajaur Chief's) bases in Afghanistan.
4) US refusal to condemn India for the Siachen incursion but raising an outcry on the Kargil one which was made by fauji's after the Siachen debacle when they took 1000 miles of our land.
5) USA's offer to sell better quality F16's to India compared to what they sold us.
6) Framing of Pakistani innocents in the name of terrorism-Seen it, researched it.
7) Maltreatment of Pakistanis in airports and hounding of Pakistani political Organizations in north America. Even secular ones. Yes-this is the only thing they are good at.
8) Support for dictators in Pakistani land. 3 major ones had their backing. Zia was the one who Islamicized Pakistan with their blessing in case you did not notice.
9) Presler Amendment. When we were not needed by USA anymore. Cold war over, Afghanistan in ruins but of course the Soviets disgraced as they wanted that is what came. Military and economic cooperation CUT and mark my words IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN-200% chance and I bet on my life when this war on terror is over this will come again. They will harass us even more than they are now.
10) The blame Pakistan suffers on a daily basis. Pakistan is held responsible for every failure. I believe you think we are responsible. Partly I agree, yes. But you do not know about the successes, Ramzir yousuf, Baradar, Khalid Sheikh (top 9/11 terrorist) were all capture by us.
11) Pakistan counting on US support and not getting any in 1971. Weak point? Leave that then. I think it is too. But consider the rest.
12) Add to this the Indian nuclear test smiling Buddha in 74 being ignored by the US while our military and economy being sanctioned.
13) Add to this the framing of Kashmiri activist Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai in a false case as an ISI agent in another attempt to malign ISI

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...n-pakistanis-against-usa-8.html#ixzz2JuttiIGm

This relationship will end soon. In 1989 when we had been used in the Afghan soviet war the presler amendment came. We have to know what we will do when it comes again in 2014. The only glue here binding us together is the war on terror. It ends and we know whats coming for us. Its our choice to accept or not.

Blaming the government is not really a solution. If we, Nationalists had protested heavily then we wouldn't see this day. Iran should not be distrusted I believe. Shia vs Sunni and vice-versa mindset is stupid and childish and a game to divide us. Forget that stuff and seek allies, not enemies. We will need them when US abandons us again.

 

[haviZsultan]

It's because of the 'mullahs' that Iran has an independent foreign policy. On the other hand, it's because of the secular leaders in Pakistan that Pakistan has never had an independent foreign policy.

It is a problem I agree. I wish to "meld" secularism and nationalism. Our liberal leaders have always surrendered on foreign policy. Its a huge mistake.

 

[Backbencher]

Osama bin ladin didnt required US permission for 9/11 , however the consequences are known to everyone here .
Similarly Pakistan - Iran doesnt require US permission , however the consequences will be...........

 

[KRAIT]

US may threaten with economic sanctions. They tried to pressurize India regarding trade with Iran but India didn't budge. Same can't be said post 2014 as Pakistan may not have Supply lines as leverage.

 

[Albatross]

Look these are my reasons for seeking a better relationship with them:



This relationship will end soon. In 1989 when we had been used in the Afghan soviet war the presler amendment came. We have to know what we will do when it comes again in 2014. The only glue here binding us together is the war on terror. It ends and we know whats coming for us. Its our choice to accept or not.

Blaming the government is not really a solution. If we, Nationalists had protested heavily then we wouldn't see this day. Iran should not be distrusted I believe. Shia vs Sunni and vice-versa mindset is stupid and childish and a game to divide us. Forget that stuff and seek allies, not enemies. We will need them when US abandons us again.

I agree with you till the point that we should keep healthy relations with everyone and above all balance things...But regarding Iran dont forget the way it gave chabahar port to india letting india exercise all its influence in afghanistan plus it gave support to some extremist groups of balochistan as well..We can use this pipeline building as a mean to increase our influence on iran.

Also balancing of realtions with Iran and other gulf countries is of great importance we shouldn't forget KSA gave us billion of dollars to build nuclear bombs and have been giving us oil on deffered payments and low prices but again there had been instances when even they dint support us plus there are certain elements in KSA which supports Islamic extremism, OBL was an example.

I guess our predicament throughout history had been lack of diplomacy the things which we would have used in our favor were always used against us. All we need is self sufficiency and balance and yes we live in a world where a brother gets jealous of other so if gwadar is fully functional it will cut the business of chabahar and also dubai and both these states wont like that but its in our national interest to build it asap and fend off any resistance with good diplomacy.

And yes this is high time that we get out of that shia,sunni,wahabi thing as that was made just to bring us we are right now...And to get out of this we will have to move forward and dont let religious beliefs cloud our interests.

 

[KRAIT]

@Albatross "We can use this pipeline building as a mean to increase our influence on iran."

Iran will be the supplier and the influence of Iran on Pakistan, will increase more than vice versa.

As for balancing act with KSA and Iran, its very tough for Pakistan.

 

[Ayush]

Naturally they would be a bit concerned. Though they won't show it.

 

[Albatross]

@Albatross "We can use this pipeline building as a mean to increase our influence on iran."

Iran will be the supplier and the influence of Iran on Pakistan, will increase more than vice versa.

As for balancing act with KSA and Iran, its very tough for Pakistan.

well Iran will be getting money from us for that gas ..Its same like you have a huge cotton exports to europe but they dont depend on you its the way around..Iran will listen to all states which are doing business with her considering Iran's present international isolation ..Pakistan has gas of its own but we are not utilizing it at full throttle ,besides we have ample coal reserves and then that TAPI gas project is there as well...In the long run I see this IP gas line project just as a balancing factor not something on which Pakistan will be critically depending also according to agreement there is no set minimum amount yeah the max figures are quoted that means it will be on need basis .So I really dont think Iran would be in any position to exert some pressure on Pak it will be other way around.

I agree with you regarding KSA and Iran, but seeing india having good relations with KSA,Iran and israel should give us some food of thought... Plus KSA knows one thing that our strategic partnership with them cant be broken by such variable energy deals and that is guaranteed by our mutual defence pacts such as if KSA goes to war against any nuclear state it would Pak responsibility to provide her nukes that she can fire via her f-15 incase a need arises.

But still lots of diplomacy is required to achieve a balance relationship with both these states and our moto should be nothing is impossible as its the high time to use all our resources in the right way otherwise we will be lost and I guess people high up in the real chain of command in PAK are now finally making some right decisions Plus I am sure Pakistan had a go ahead from KSA regarding this IP project.

 

[kam83]

I also said about PLA navy blocking gulf of Oman from Gwadar



keep looling

they won't understand this ...it a waste of time trying to convince them..they always needed a backing to fall upon in case things get really ugly like 1971
Earlier it was USA now its China
they think there whole Army and navy are so capable thats why they gave Gilgit to china now this Gwadar port to china ...
soon Pakistan will a part of republic of china as all of the security of pakistan will be outsourced to china..

China like a shrewed businessman will squeeze every penny out of them and leave them high and dry ....
US atleast sent a Carrier group for pakistan help in 1971 supplied it with all arms and fighter jets when they needed..provided with Aid money and still does
when was the last time chinese done anything to help you Economically and Military wise....

 

[Albatross]

US may threaten with economic sanctions. They tried to pressurize India regarding trade with Iran but India didn't budge. Same can't be said post 2014 as Pakistan may not have Supply lines as leverage.

They will leave us anyways as they did in 89 so its better to do something which is in our national interests ...But as for as af'tan is concerned I guess world would be needing Pak more once Nato withdraws .

they won't understand this ...it a waste of time trying to convince them..they always needed a backing to fall upon in case things get really ugly like 1971
Earlier it was USA now its China
they think there whole Army and navy are so capable thats why they gave Gilgit to china now this Gwadar port to china ...
soon Pakistan will a part of republic of china as all of the security of pakistan will be outsourced to china..

China like a shrewed businessman will squeeze every penny out of them and leave them high and dry ....
US atleast sent a Carrier group for pakistan help in 1971 supplied it with all arms and fighter jets when they needed..provided with Aid money and still does
when was the last time chinese done anything to help you Economically and Military wise....

Just go on google and try to see karakoram highway from gilgit till pak-china border ,you cant see it because our goverments have asked google to not show it calling it a strategic and sensitive installation.But in reality a widening work is going on since 2008 aiming it widening it from 10 m to 30 m and almost 40% work on Pak side is done and 100% on china side is done...All those chinese you mentioned are there to undertake that work...Plus a land survey for erecting supports for rail link is also being carried out since 2011 and I guess work will commence in early 2014.

 

[DV RULES]

Look these are my reasons for seeking a better relationship with them:



This relationship will end soon. In 1989 when we had been used in the Afghan soviet war the presler amendment came. We have to know what we will do when it comes again in 2014. The only glue here binding us together is the war on terror. It ends and we know whats coming for us. Its our choice to accept or not.

Blaming the government is not really a solution. If we, Nationalists had protested heavily then we wouldn't see this day. Iran should not be distrusted I believe. Shia vs Sunni and vice-versa mindset is stupid and childish and a game to divide us. Forget that stuff and seek allies, not enemies. We will need them when US abandons us again.

No any relationship not going to end as it is continuous process, Shia, Sunni, Wahabi are point of discussion here in my posts but not like other's stupid mind set. You just added lot of common reasons and named cause of relations. We know these things from years. You are talking as surface observer & front events and connecting them.

Iran couldn't be trusted country but we support every step from Iran which can suitable for us.

 

[Screambowl]

they won't understand this ...it a waste of time trying to convince them..they always needed a backing to fall upon in case things get really ugly like 1971
Earlier it was USA now its China
they think there whole Army and navy are so capable thats why they gave Gilgit to china now this Gwadar port to china ...
soon Pakistan will a part of republic of china as all of the security of pakistan will be outsourced to china..

China like a shrewed businessman will squeeze every penny out of them and leave them high and dry ....
US atleast sent a Carrier group for pakistan help in 1971 supplied it with all arms and fighter jets when they needed..provided with Aid money and still does
when was the last time chinese done anything to help you Economically and Military wise....

China knows that in world politics only self interest matters.

Pakistan'S mentality is dangerous to the world. It's like we are in stone ages, we will bring you in the stone ages too because we did not work hard for our betterment we will not let you develop either.