Iran clarifies Khamenei never linked Kashmir with his call to fight opression & Tyrany in his sermon

[Smoking Snakes]

Nope.
You are going head first into civil war.
Why would anyone waste a nuke for you guys

Only one going into civil war is Pakistan due to Shia-Sunni strife.

 

[patman]

Nope.
You are going head first into civil war.
Why would anyone waste a nuke for you guys

diversity is India's strength too many cultures , too alien to each other , people rather side with union nationality rather than be ruled by a regional domain of alien culture.

 

[El Sidd]

The highlighted part, am unable to understand what is being implied/projected. Perhaps if you can expand on it/clarify.

However, there was an Indo-US 'alignment' under Obama administration over Iran to a certain extent wherein a role of facilitator has been played by India in the accord that had materialised.

This fact I have oft stated in past. The role of India in Iran, Myanmar and Vietnam has been of facilitator in order to allow for an increased interaction with US (on the backdrop of the opposing posture held by US) for convergence of interests.



Did not get this.



It was always a case of Islamic Terror. If you look at the issue dispassionately, you will realise that the case for Islamic Terror can easily be projected.

The fact that the first step of the militant activity lies in calls of Jamaat-i-Islami and other Muslim Group's calls for Kashmiri Pandits to leave Kashmir, in a society wherein there was a recorded bonhomie between the two communities (I can grant certain animosity towards Dogras initially, even that was over within few years of independence) the fact that there was an attempt to remove minorities by forcing them out/killing, is itself the first step of a genocide, something which can be 'reinvestigated'..

It is also a fact that the militancy was stoked by Pakistan at a time when USSR was declining and India was considered a de-facto Eastern Bloc nation, thereby, on the backs of a successful insurgency being run in Afghanistan and defeating the Soviet Bear, the diplomatic position of India was tenuous in the re-arranging world order. Of course, Pakistan made a mistake again. (and here I am speaking from a purely dispassionate perspective) They should have tried a military action somewhere in 1993-95 when the Indian economy was suffering and Pakistan still had the diplomatic leverage and backing to actually launch a synergistic military action along with a thriving militancy at the time in Kashmir to reach some meaningful resolution for it's position.

However, post 9/11, this perspective shifted. Today, the landscape of Kashmiri militant movement is dominated by radicalised versions of Islam as opposed to the more tolerant and flexible ones.

The Indian policy of containment of level of violence (by not introducing artillery, air support, armour etc) allowed for insurgency level to remain at a level that is low enough to not allow diplomatic pressure on India. That is where the Indian Government does not arrest the Separatists except for preventive/house arrests (all tools of political disagreements), as this allows the perception of a political process as ongoing, infinitely.

These two aspects as above, allow India the flexibility to portray the movement as that of being against a militant Islam and the latter as that of addressing the issue through political means. It sits perfectly well with the Indian intent and aims.

The level of violence and escalation in Kashmir we have seen over the past few months, is something that has earlier been predicted by me in immediate aftermath of the liquidation of Burhan Wani, someone who we could have liquidated much earlier too.







Au contraire, you have exactly answered yourself. This particular statement of your's is exact summation of what allows us to project a movement against radical islam.

There is no problem if people want to volunteer for a fight in Kashmir. The only one who will continue to suffer is the Kashmiri. Look at Syria, Libya and Iraq. They are an example of which, everyone is aware. It is a very far fetched idea and merely a hope that such a situation can come across India as a whole. Indeed, except on PDF where even martians will come against India (or Pakistan depends on topic and who is being the target), not much will come of it.



China will not involve itself in Kashmir. And the recent border incidents are on claimed Bhutani land ... IA intervened on that. I have been studying China for a long time, it is not a foolish nation. It shall not make such mistakes. It never goes to war until and unless it has no option left, and the way they are moving economically, they would really be fools to lose the capability and clout they have. China is a nation which believes in manoeuvre and the policy is paying it rich dividends already, as can be seen.

The recent incidents were merely timed to occur with Modi's visit to US, merely as a 'warning'.





The opposing policies of Russia and US are ensuring only one thing - destruction of the Middle East specifically, Muslim Nations.

Look at this point very dispassionately. Putin launched his political rise on back of anti-Islamist operations in Chechnya. In Moscow, an average Muslim still has a bit more difficulty as compared to any other citizen/person. It is a hard fact on ground. Trump has a declared intent, howsoever, he may portray himself.


Russia is not going anywhere, only we might have our positions at odds with them over their game with US. The only one who will suffer in long term, are the Muslim Nations. Anyone who is not able to see the fact, are purely missing the point.

I understand and fully appreciate the cunning move. The problem is that this Islamic Terror fashion is not going anywhere just as yet.
It would have been much easier if you would have jumped on the bandwagon in 2001. Now thanks to fatigue and the leftist nutties it is not that viable to present Kashmir as such.
It maybe just too hard to convince or sell Kashmir as a case but you know once you invite Uncle Sam it brings all other parties to the table pretty quickly.
I am just postulating that the terrorists will just find an excuse to make Kashmir a destination and its not good for the region.
With China sitting just a stone's throw away Kashmir. Uncle Sam would love to sit here and fiddle with Chinese Muslim issues which is the ultimate goal.
It would have been much better if Kashmir would have stayed bilateral.
You do realise that Pakistan offers Kashmir nothing but rudimentary support and this violence is nothing but a new wave of frustrated youths?
They don't even need our support.
By the way these would be the very first terrorists who wave Pakistani flag and not jihadi flags.

except

It is not Islamic but Pakistani terrorism that is behind the Kashmir unrests. India has always known and shown it to be this. And within the past 10 years, Pakistani retired leaders have confirmed that AND events such as Abbottabad have proved Indian charges.

Pakistan's struggle is for Pakistan now, forget Kashmir.

You can try convince the Americans who see Pakistan as an ally in war on terror.

diversity is India's strength too many cultures , too alien to each other , people rather side with union nationality rather than be ruled by a regional domain of alien culture.

I am a big fan of your diversity. But the North vs South divide might well prove just a little hard for you.
Not to mention the other seperatist movements but the biggest seems to be the secular vs the BJP.
Modi will get another term but at what price? That's the million dollar question

Only one going into civil war is Pakistan due to Shia-Sunni strife.

We have been in a civil war for over a decade now. This shia sunni drama is just another shade of it.

Don't worry about such things. The people at the top of the pile know how to play this game.

We have seen it for the past 1400 years.

It takes one sentence to finish this shia sunni divide so you are just exhausting yourself in that

 

[patman]

I am a big fan of your diversity. But the North vs South divide might well prove just a little hard for you.
Not to mention the other seperatist movements but the biggest seems to be the secular vs the BJP.
Modi will get another term but at what price? That's the million dollar question

as a guy who was born in visakhapatnam , do enlighten me on the north south divide lol every state is a ricval to its opposing state

teligana hates Andhra pradesh cultural influence
kanadigas hates the Tamils cultural influence
tamils hate hate anyone with different cultural influence
north India is 10x more diverse

we Indians are too diverse to form any union for sapration movement, aka we are the worlds melting pot

 

[Dash]

Nope.
You are going head first into civil war.
Why would anyone waste a nuke for you guys

I suppose then you will waste your nukes on USA? Because even if there is a civil war, India will survive and you never know , India might come back as a better nation? As taught by history?

 

[Kaniska]

Well, sis. It clear who is sectarian here since i never generalize people of a country and insult them altogether.

We call those who insult a whole nation "idiot", assuming you're a "lady" i refrain from that like an Iranian man will do.

ISIS, AQ, Taliban, LeJ, Anusra, al-shabab and all those al-crap terrorist groups call themselves sunnis and call all those they kill "rafida".

thats a fact. no matter who actually their target is, they call them rafida. cause thats who they want to kill. thats their ultimate goal

Again, all these groups have a significant support group among civilian population or else they cannot survive a single day


i won't even comment on what you said. i do however comment on your civility and politeness.

kudos mate.

even though i attacked Indian policies you still remained calm and polite like a civilized person would do.

we don't see that from many people here

@haman10 ...No issues...any healthy discussion is always based on listening to others who really makes sensible feedbacks...I should be honest to say that to some extent your claims are true...But there is a context to the perception of being Muslims are not being developed.

India has the largest democracy...By our constitution, we have exactly same right for every one irrespective of religion...Trust me, this is something, i find it very special, as i may not find the same in Islamic countries to provide equal rights to Non Muslims too...So definitely there is no discrimination at any institutional level. But it is also a fact, in the society level, some form of finger pointing still exists for Muslims...But you also have to understand, this is not only limited to Muslims only, our society even discriminates socially based on the cast, tribe, regions and so many other factors...As a nation, we are slowly developing...With more than 100 million people, it takes time for all the people of such a diverse society like us to understand to live together peacefully...

Having said that, it should also be noted that, for Hindus, India is the only place where they can take shelter of...Unlike other religion people...So there is a fear psychosis, of being threatened in our own place by other religion people...It may be a false sense of thinking in short term, but for an ordinary person like Jon Doe, they have that mindset, which impacts in our societal fabric..

So whenever you or any one from your friends, are having opinion about us, try to understand the perspective of India where not only Muslims, we have people of every religion exists in our nation where they have equal stake in our nationgood. So definitely it is challenging and it takes time to build a nation that we all Indian desires..

 

[Kambojaric]

I love how many Indian's have just accepted the notion of "shia kashmiris being pro-India" that has been spoon fed to them by the Indian media propaganda machine. Some of the most prominent anti-India leaders in Kashmir are Shia such as Syed Ali Shah Geelani, Agha Syed Hassan Al-Moosvi Al-Safvi etc.

(Al-Moosvi thanks Khamenei for supporting Kashmir cause)
https://www.kmsnews.org/news/1728.html

Geelani leading the chant "We are Pakistanis, Pakistan is ours"

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/22/434540/India-Kashmir-Muharram-Imam-Hussein-Shia-mourners
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/10/10/488490/Police-break-Muharram-processions-Kashmir
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-kashmir-procession-idUSTRE5BP0PL20091226
https://www.telegraphindia.com/1091229/jsp/nation/story_11919545.jsp
https://www.dawn.com/news/437538

The Indian attempt to create a bridge between shias and sunnis is classic divide and rule, which only their own citizens (and unfortunately some Iranians here due to their own nationalist reasons) seem to be falling for. It is like the Israelis who claim Palestinian Druze and Christians are happy to be Israelis, in order to create internal strife within the Palestinian freedom movement.
Then again India nowadays is taking direct inspiration from the Israelis on how to oppress independence movements. Human shields is the classic example.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/outrage-india-award-human-shield-soldier-170523110224040.html
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180772

 

[lastone]

@haman10 ...No issues...any healthy discussion is always based on listening to others who really makes sensible feedbacks...I should be honest to say that to some extent your claims are true...But there is a context to the perception of being Muslims are not being developed.

India has the largest democracy...By our constitution, we have exactly same right for every one irrespective of religion...Trust me, this is something, i find it very special, as i may not find the same in Islamic countries to provide equal rights to Non Muslims too...So definitely there is no discrimination at any institutional level. But it is also a fact, in the society level, some form of finger pointing still exists for Muslims...But you also have to understand, this is not only limited to Muslims only, our society even discriminates socially based on the cast, tribe, regions and so many other factors...As a nation, we are slowly developing...With more than 100 million people, it takes time for all the people of such a diverse society like us to understand to live together peacefully...

Having said that, it should also be noted that, for Hindus, India is the only place where they can take shelter of...Unlike other religion people...So there is a fear psychosis, of being threatened in our own place by other religion people...It may be a false sense of thinking in short term, but for an ordinary person like Jon Doe, they have that mindset, which impacts in our societal fabric..

So whenever you or any one from your friends, are having opinion about us, try to understand the perspective of India where not only Muslims, we have people of every religion exists in our nation where they have equal stake in our nationgood. So definitely it is challenging and it takes time to build a nation that we all Indian desires..

Disagree . As a Hindu in India no fear psychosis at all regarding other religions.
Muslims will have to be dragged to the 21st century like was done in Turkey.
In some areas Muslims in India are ahead of Hindus but in many behind us.
Unfortunately in many nations esp Muslim , might is right is too widespread.
Also they find ridiculous reasons to get into fights over , like forcibly closing bazaars in support of Palestinians or some similar faraway cause.
Has reduced considerably over the years though.
Our state police forces have to be made independent and answerable and rest all is fine in India.

 

[Smoking Snakes]

I love how many Indian's have just accepted the notion of "shia kashmiris being pro-India" that has been spoon fed to them by the Indian media propaganda machine. Some of the most prominent anti-India leaders in Kashmir are Shia such as Syed Ali Shah Geelani, Agha Syed Hassan Al-Moosvi Al-Safvi etc.

(Al-Moosvi thanks Khamenei for supporting Kashmir cause)
https://www.kmsnews.org/news/1728.html

Geelani leading the chant "We are Pakistanis, Pakistan is ours"

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/22/434540/India-Kashmir-Muharram-Imam-Hussein-Shia-mourners
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/10/10/488490/Police-break-Muharram-processions-Kashmir
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-kashmir-procession-idUSTRE5BP0PL20091226
https://www.telegraphindia.com/1091229/jsp/nation/story_11919545.jsp
https://www.dawn.com/news/437538

The Indian attempt to create a bridge between shias and sunnis is classic divide and rule, which only their own citizens (and unfortunately some Iranians here due to their own nationalist reasons) seem to be falling for. It is like the Israelis who claim Palestinian Druze and Christians are happy to be Israelis, in order to create internal strife within the Palestinian freedom movement.
Then again India nowadays is taking direct inspiration from the Israelis on how to oppress independence movements. Human shields is the classic example.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/outrage-india-award-human-shield-soldier-170523110224040.html
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180772

Geelani was never a Shia.
He is a wahabbi Sunni.

 

[StraightShooter]

I love how many Indian's have just accepted the notion of "shia kashmiris being pro-India" that has been spoon fed to them by the Indian media propaganda machine. Some of the most prominent anti-India leaders in Kashmir are Shia such as Syed Ali Shah Geelani, Agha Syed Hassan Al-Moosvi Al-Safvi etc.

(Al-Moosvi thanks Khamenei for supporting Kashmir cause)
https://www.kmsnews.org/news/1728.html

Geelani leading the chant "We are Pakistanis, Pakistan is ours"

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/22/434540/India-Kashmir-Muharram-Imam-Hussein-Shia-mourners
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/10/10/488490/Police-break-Muharram-processions-Kashmir
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-kashmir-procession-idUSTRE5BP0PL20091226
https://www.telegraphindia.com/1091229/jsp/nation/story_11919545.jsp
https://www.dawn.com/news/437538

The Indian attempt to create a bridge between shias and sunnis is classic divide and rule, which only their own citizens (and unfortunately some Iranians here due to their own nationalist reasons) seem to be falling for. It is like the Israelis who claim Palestinian Druze and Christians are happy to be Israelis, in order to create internal strife within the Palestinian freedom movement.
Then again India nowadays is taking direct inspiration from the Israelis on how to oppress independence movements. Human shields is the classic example.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/outrage-india-award-human-shield-soldier-170523110224040.html
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180772

There are no Shia terrorists in Kashmir. All killed terrorists are wahhabi Sunnis.

Most of the Shias live in Jammu and Ladahk (Kargil region) regions and they never indulge in any violence.

Even most of the Sunnis in the Valley are happy with the status quo. Only minuscle minority are brian washed to pickup the gun.

Religious break up of the population in the Indian controlled areas

Jammu region:

Hindus - 66% (Pro-India)
Muslims - 30% (20% Shias, 10% Sunnis. Both are Pro-India)
Others - 4% (Pro-India)

Ladakh region:

Buddhists - 52 % (Pro-India)
Shias - 45% (Pro-India)
Others - 3 % (Pro-India)

Kashmir region:

Sunni Muslims - 60% (33% Autonomy under India, 18% Pro-India, 6% Pro-Independence, 3% Pro-Pakistan)
Tribes - 20% (Staunchly pro-India tribes likes Gujjars, Bakkarwals, Paharis, Baltis and Shins.)
Hindus/Sikhs - 15% (Pro-India)
Shias - 5% (Pro-India. Declared only. Many Shias declare themselves as Sunnis due to fear)

 

[El Sidd]

as a guy who was born in visakhapatnam , do enlighten me on the north south divide lol every state is a ricval to its opposing state

teligana hates Andhra pradesh cultural influence
kanadigas hates the Tamils cultural influence
tamils hate hate anyone with different cultural influence
north India is 10x more diverse

we Indians are too diverse to form any union for sapration movement, aka we are the worlds melting pot

Yes you are too diverse. There's a problem and that is " what makes you an Indian? "

Slowly but Shirley these cracks are widening.
.
The south and the Eastern edges don't feel that pull towards India.

As long as there's plenty to go around its all good.

I suppose then you will waste your nukes on USA? Because even if there is a civil war, India will survive and you never know , India might come back as a better nation? As taught by history?

History teaches somebody will end up conquering you so don't romanticise much on that.

From the Aryans to the Mongrel mughals.

We have no intentions of nuking anyone. Its just for deterrence.

Why so scared? Lol

 

[Hellfire]

I understand and fully appreciate the cunning move. The problem is that this Islamic Terror fashion is not going anywhere just as yet.

It is not something that is of late, it is something that has been showcased as such since inception itself.

The only difference has been the approach is fructifying over the years. India of 1990s was an economically insecure and diplomatically weak nation, present years give out a different picture for apparent reasons.

It would have been much easier if you would have jumped on the bandwagon in 2001. Now thanks to fatigue and the leftist nutties it is not that viable to present Kashmir as such.

There has been no 'jumping' on bandwagon overnight. Systematic undermining of the pre-eminent organisation of the day is a time tested strategy, that is in vogue as always. Hence the rise and fall of different organisations.

LeT had established itself as the pre-eminent group, now, HM out of the blue, is reasserting itself. These two organisations have their own inherent differences. The situation is more complicated with advent of wahabi fundings into valley. This has enabled mosques sprouting at every nook and corner, which, admittedly are preaching an anti-India agenda, but are also preaching the rabid interpretations that are more identified with places like Afghanistan and mid-East. These are inherent contradictions within a viable armed struggle.

The fatigue is within the common man on ground. The common man on street is caught in a grinder, a corrupt political setup in the state and separatists (whose near and dear ones are comfortable and who control major businesses in Kashmir, including contractors for the armed forces) and militant groups on other side. It is this man who is the daily wage earner, who is being pushed deeper into despair and penury as strikes leave no business unaffected.

There is no fatigue in IA. The fatigue only exists in this forum. Ground realities are quite different. But IA is not the solution here.

The Leftists are actually killing themselves. They are a minuscule population who gets the bytes but has no bite, so hardly an issue.

It maybe just too hard to convince or sell Kashmir as a case but you know once you invite Uncle Sam it brings all other parties to the table pretty quickly.

Uncle Sam is not invited, that is a sure thing. That is why even the present power set up, is stressing on Shimla Accord only. Even Chinese are not exactly a great idea into this dispute over Kashmir.

I am just postulating that the terrorists will just find an excuse to make Kashmir a destination and its not good for the region.

I doubt many will find a way into Kashmir save from coming in through LC from your side. And any who do come, will meet their fate here. As for homegrown ones, short life span. The present military strategy of restrained targeting will provide the necessary controls, but then, again, it remains only a stop gap measure.

With China sitting just a stone's throw away Kashmir. Uncle Sam would love to sit here and fiddle with Chinese Muslim issues which is the ultimate goal.

The ultimate game remains to isolate China into South China Sea in order to establish a status quo there. CPEC allows China an alternate and simply disallows that. Hence, Kashmir is very stupid place for US to bother in. I would always point to Baluchistan area.

My logic, for past 9 months now, remains on Iran as being a target for US. US moves to destabilise Iran, logically go towards Baluchistan-Sistan province of Iran.

Now reading it with Modi's statements over Baluchistan over the last year (rhetoric notwithstanding), one can imagine a convergence of interests here between US and India if Iran follows a policy of supporting Kashmiri movement. That is what my original contention remained.

This combination of US-Indian interest in Baluchistan (including Baluchistan-Sistan region) allows addressing two major interests of US - Iran and CPEC. Two of India also are addressed - CPEC and destabilised Pakistan (I say destabilised as anything more than destabilised aka like Syria will be dangerous for US and Indian interests, so even if India wanted, US will not allow that; so perhaps a level of violence enough to make CPEC unviable/risk prone option yet not enough to allow destruction of host country itself)

would have been much better if Kashmir would have stayed bilateral.

I remain a strong proponent of that. Never allow hungry wolves into your pen.

You do realise that Pakistan offers Kashmir nothing but rudimentary support and this violence is nothing but a new wave of frustrated youths?

I will laugh at this one as I know exactly what level of support Pakistan provides. Been there done that situation for me

I don't hold it against Pakistan, they have to do everything to secure their interests. But then, it is a game two can play

I think we can leave this bit to our understandings on this aspect

By the way these would be the very first terrorists who wave Pakistani flag and not jihadi flags.

Actually, it makes our job easier

 

[Sam.]

My logic, for past 9 months now, remains on Iran as being a target for US. US moves to destabilise Iran, logically go towards Baluchistan-Sistan province of Iran.

Now reading it with Modi's statements over Baluchistan over the last year (rhetoric notwithstanding), one can imagine a convergence of interests here between US and India if Iran follows a policy of supporting Kashmiri movement. That is what my original contention remained.

This combination of US-Indian interest in Baluchistan (including Baluchistan-Sistan region) allows addressing two major interests of US - Iran and CPEC. Two of India also are addressed - CPEC and destabilised Pakistan (I say destabilised as anything more than destabilised aka like Syria will be dangerous for US and Indian interests, so even if India wanted, US will not allow that; so perhaps a level of violence enough to make CPEC unviable/risk prone option yet not enough to allow destruction of host country itself)

Don't share too much otherwise you won't get the arrear hoodboy.

For my understanding US is master in this art craft and you can see it pulled many string already.

It will create a scenario for host country to indulge in it's own destabilization.

If you will see border area org like Taliban etc supporting baluch struggle in both side of the border then don't be surprised as Pakistani state will look at the other side(India).

You can re read my post and everytime you will see new meaning to it.

Now history repeating itself and we are playing the role of China in this great game.( hint - 1980's history)

 

[patman]

Yes you are too diverse. There's a problem and that is " what makes you an Indian? "

yes

Slowly but Shirley these cracks are widening.

India more united today than it ever was. indias openly intermarry 70 years of interstate migrations, we have integrated within the national identity . same cant be said for our western neighbors.

The south and the Eastern edges don't feel that pull towards India.

again i am a south indian and you are full of sh*t

As long as there's plenty to go around its all good.

lol that's true for any country , dry up the resource and humans turn to animals , that's the nature of humanity . grow up kid.

History teaches somebody will end up conquering you so don't romanticise much on that.

like the Mauryan and Afghan empire conquered Pakistan?

From the Aryans to the Mongrel mughals.

sad to see you insult yourself this bad

We have no intentions of nuking anyone. Its just for deterrence.

that's like saying "i have no intentions of suicide bombing anyone.Its just for deterrence."

Why so scared? Lol

as scared as USA is of north Korea and Columbia

 

[Dash]

Yes you are too diverse. There's a problem and that is " what makes you an Indian? "

Slowly but Shirley these cracks are widening.
.
The south and the Eastern edges don't feel that pull towards India.

As long as there's plenty to go around its all good.



History teaches somebody will end up conquering you so don't romanticise much on that.

From the Aryans to the Mongrel mughals.

We have no intentions of nuking anyone. Its just for deterrence.

Why so scared? Lol

So you are saying the blacks won American civil war and then they got equal right?

And I am scared coz I don't have some bigot mullahs from Taliban sitting on the buttons of my nuclear arsenal. And not some tom dick and Harry blowing up naval bases to get access to nukes!!