Iran before Khomeini

[Bengal71]

Yeah I am aware of what happened with Mossadegh. My point was how Iran would be like if the Shah had never been overthrown. I feel like Iran would probably be the richest and most culturally influential Middle Eastern power today. Probably with a strong industrial base as well. Something like the Japan of the Middle East, economic powerful but not completely independent.

If the shah was still in power, Iran would be another puppet like the Saudi.

 

[zartosht]

Here we go again another deluded member who think USA is God. CIA contribution is not significant in overthrowing Soekarno regime. Just take a look on Iran, supported USA regime is easily overthrown by popular uprising lead by Khameinei.

The fact that Communism is the anti thesis of Islam is the main thing of why Soekarno can be overthrown. Islamic power is very strong in Indonesia and Soekarno ban Islamist political party, Masyumi, since 1959, despite Islamic party controlled Indonesian parliament and Indonesia PM since 1945 is Muhammad Hatta, West Sumatran politician and he was the one who do the diplomatic struggle during Independence war.

one thing that must be noted is that the US eventually abandoned pahlavi. not even letting him come to the US for cancer treatment.

Pahlavi had been forced onto power by the west twice as their puppet. once to replace his great father who made the grave aggression to the graet allies of the ww2. by declaring Iranian neutrality. and was invaded and replaced by that (possibly gay) so called "shah"

After mossadegh kicked him out, the rat was again re-installed by a coup

by the time of the late 70s, the shah was an old man, with terminal cancer. he was no longer savable. the american knew this.

they took a look at Iranian politics, geopolitical space annd saw that the biggest regime opponents were leftists like Tudeh, and islamists.

They were afraid the leftists would make Iran a soviet ally, so they actually indirectly supported khomeini at first. He was in France, with western media all over him broadcasting his messages into Iran. he enterred Iran on an air france flight filled with westerners. because there was a real possiblity/fear that the still shah loyal air force would shoot his plane down...

But once Khomeini landed in Iran, he gave them a historical middle finger. Declaring Iran an independent state that would be nobodies puppet. and the rest is history.

Khomeini is an underrated man in terms of his geopolitical prowess....... whatever his motivations were. history will judge him as a great man for regaining Iranian soverignty for the first time since the early qajar Era....

 

[Menace2Society]

Was Iran more self sufficient, educated and Industrialized during shah, or measure of progress is how much naked woman get ????????

The problem is some reductionist here only think think with their d**k, maybe religion is good for them. I blame poor rolemodels, they have been taught to obsess over such things, its a psychological condition.

 

[Indos]

one thing that must be noted is that the US eventually abandoned pahlavi. not even letting him come to the US for cancer treatment.

Pahlavi had been forced onto power by the west twice as their puppet. once to replace his great father who made the grave aggression to the graet allies of the ww2. by declaring Iranian neutrality. and was invaded and replaced by that (possibly gay) so called "shah"

After mossadegh kicked him out, the rat was again re-installed by a coup

by the time of the late 70s, the shah was an old man, with terminal cancer. he was no longer savable. the american knew this.

they took a look at Iranian politics, geopolitical space annd saw that the biggest regime opponents were leftists like Tudeh, and islamists.

They were afraid the leftists would make Iran a soviet ally, so they actually indirectly supported khomeini at first. He was in France, with western media all over him broadcasting his messages into Iran. he enterred Iran on an air france flight filled with westerners. because there was a real possiblity/fear that the still shah loyal air force would shoot his plane down...

But once Khomeini landed in Iran, he gave them a historical middle finger. Declaring Iran an independent state that would be nobodies puppet. and the rest is history.

Khomeini is an underrated man in terms of his geopolitical prowess....... whatever his motivations were. history will judge him as a great man for regaining Iranian soverignty for the first time since the early qajar Era....

I dont follow Iran foreign politics during cold war, what is the position of Iran at that time ? I sense Iran has close relationship with USSR, while the rest of Muslim countries are with The West since communist with its economic system is not compatible with Islamic system that still uses market system and allow entrepreneurship to florist, not mentioning Communism is close to Atheism. Even @jamahir as communist fans also has Atheist tendency

 

[QWECXZ]

I dont follow Iran foreign politics during cold war, what is the position of Iran at that time ? I sense Iran has close relationship with USSR, while the rest of Muslim countries are with The West since communist with its economic system is not compatible with Islamic system that still uses market system and allow entrepreneurship to florist, not mentioning Communism is close to Atheism. Even @jamahir as communist fans also has Atheist tendency

So, you're saying that after participating in almost every page of the thread, you don't know if the Shah was pro-USSR or pro-West? lol

 

[Indos]

So, you're saying that after participating in almost every page of the thread, you don't know if the Shah was pro-USSR or pro-West? lol

Not Shah Iran Lol, but Khameini. As Islamist state, where does Iran position during that time ? Cold War is ended around early 1990's

 

[QWECXZ]

Not Shah Iran Lol, but Khameini. As Islamist state, where does Iran position during that time ? Cold War is ended around early 1990's

Then you're confused about the terminology perhaps. The Cold War was from 1962 to 1970s, starting from the Cuban missile crisis in 1962 and ending with the Nixon-Brezhnev period in 1970s. The fall of the Soviet Union was in 1991 (in fact, it started in 1989 and led to dissolution of the Soviet Union finally) and has nothing to do with the Cold War.

And Khomeini was against the Soviets. That's why the Soviet Union supported Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war.

 

[Indos]

Then you're confused about the terminology perhaps. The cold war was from 1962 to 1970s, starting from the Cuban missile crisis in 1962 and ending with the Nixon-Brezhnev period in 1970s. The fall of the Soviet Union was in 1991 and has nothing to do with the cold war.

And Khomeini was against the Soviets. That's why the Soviet Union supported Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war.

Here:

The Cold War was a period of geopolitical tension between the United States and the Soviet Union and their respective allies, the Western Bloc and the Eastern Bloc, which began following World War II. Historians do not fully agree on its starting and ending points, but the period is generally considered to span the 1947 Truman Doctrine (12 March 1947) to the 1991 Dissolution of the Soviet Union (26 December 1991).[1]

Cold War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

--------------------------------------------

Iraq is supported by US and Saudi during Iran-Iraq war, look like you dont know your own country history

United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[QWECXZ]

Here:

The Cold War was a period of geopolitical tension between the United States and the Soviet Union and their respective allies, the Western Bloc and the Eastern Bloc, which began following World War II. Historians do not fully agree on its starting and ending points, but the period is generally considered to span the 1947 Truman Doctrine (12 March 1947) to the 1991 Dissolution of the Soviet Union (26 December 1991).[1]

Cold War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

--------------------------------------------

Iraq is supported by US and Saudi during Iran-Iraq war, look like you dont know your own country history

I'm not sure if you're seeing the same page as me on Wikipedia. This is the very first paragraph:

The Cold War (1962–1979) refers to the phase within the Cold War that spanned the period between the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis in late October 1962, through the détente period beginning in 1969, to the end of détente in the late 1970s.

You don't know anything about world history. Do you? I'm not surprised. Your posts are generally are of low quality from what I have seen so far.

The dissolution of the Soviet Union had little to do with the Cold War. It was rather a decision made by the Soviet leadership after a chain of events that were mostly due to mismanagement and incompetency.

It is ridiculous that your title is Analyst while your critical thinking is quite childish and basic. Just because the US and the Saudis supported Iraq does not imply that the Soviets could not support Iraq. It's perhaps the most basic critical thinking skill to understand what implies what and what doesn't necessarily imply what. In fact, the Soviets were the biggest sponsor of Iraq during the war. Iraqi weapons were mostly Soviet made and Iraqi soldiers also constantly received training by the Soviets.
Go fact yourself, kid. Learn to think and use your head before you open your mouth and say somebody doesn't know the history of his own country. Maybe your title on PDF wouldn't seem ridiculously misplaced then.

 

[Uguduwa]

Not really, i am just stating the truth. I am not a blind nationalist. For example i admit that Turkey currently has a better rate of progression compared to Iran.

Central Asia? Are you kidding? Kazakhstan, Tajik,Uzbek, Mongolia etc? Most of them look like they are still stuck in the soviet times. They are dirt poor. Perhaps Pakistan can compete with Tajikistan, yes but that was not the discussion. It was about Iran vs Pakistan human development, infrastructure etc and it is not even a fair comparison.

Dude, lol.

Pakistan is still living in stone age. I can't believe how delusional people on this forum are comparing Iran with Pakistan LOL! Pakistan doesn't even have a functioning society to begin with. Pakistan can compare itself with other failed states like Somalia. Even Tajikistan is far ahead IMO.

 

[Indos]

I'm not sure if you're seeing the same page as me on Wikipedia. This is the very first paragraph:

The Cold War (1962–1979) refers to the phase within the Cold War that spanned the period between the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis in late October 1962, through the détente period beginning in 1969, to the end of détente in the late 1970s.

You don't know anything about world history. Do you? I'm not surprised. Your posts are generally are of low quality from what I have seen so far.

The dissolution of the Soviet Union had little to do with the Cold War. It was rather a decision made by the Soviet leadership after a chain of events that were mostly due to mismanagement and incompetency.

It is ridiculous that your title is Analyst while your critical thinking is quite childish and basic. Just because the US and the Saudis supported Iraq does not mean that the Soviets could not support Iraq. It's like one of the most basic critical thinking skills to understand what implies what and what doesn't necessarily imply what. In fact, the Soviets were the biggest sponsor of Iraq during the war.
Go fact yourself, kid. Learn to think and use your head before you open your mouth and say somebody doesn't know the history of his own country. Maybe your title on PDF wouldn't seem ridiculously misplaced then.

LOL, ask any senior member here and they will laugh on you saying the cold war is ended in 1970's. Cold War is basically a competition between USA and Soviet Union in term of weapon productions, economic, and influence. It is ended when USSR dissolved in early 1991 and then USA become sole superpower until China raises.

 

[QWECXZ]

LOL, ask any senior member here and they will laugh on you saying the cold war is ended in 1970's. Cold War is basically a competition between USA and Soviet Union in term of weapon productions, economic, and influence. It is ended when USSR dissolved in early 1991 and then USA become sole superpower until China raises.

You could at least read the very first paragraph of the Wikipedia article before you embarrass yourself. Always fact check before you make strong statements. And nobody cares what senior members on some online forum think in the real world, and not necessarily all of them agree with you.
Also, get a Critical Thinking 101 book to understand that just because the Saudis and the US supported Iraq, that doesn't mean that the Soviets must've sided with Iran.

 

[Indos]

You could at least read the very first paragraph of the Wikipedia article before you embarrass yourself. Always fact check before you make strong statements. And nobody cares what senior members on some online forum think in the real world, and not necessarily all of them agree with you.
Also, get a Critical Thinking 101 book to understand that just because the Saudis and the US supported Iraq, that doesn't mean that the Soviets must've sided with Iran.

Here how about Britannica

Gorbachev’s internal reforms had meanwhile weakened his own Communist Party and allowed power to shift to Russia and the other constituent republics of the Soviet Union. In late 1991 the Soviet Union collapsed and 15 newly independent nations were born from its corpse, including a Russia with a democratically elected, anticommunist leader. The Cold War had come to an end.

Cold War - Toward a new world order

Cold War - Cold War - Toward a new world order: In the course of the 1960s and ’70s, however, the bipolar struggle between the Soviet and American blocs gave way to a more-complicated pattern of international relationships in which the world was no longer split into two clearly opposed blocs. A...

www.britannica.com

USSR did try to stay neutral, but it is correct that in the end of war USSR helped Iraq since Iran tried to invade Iraq that will create change in balance of power

 

[QWECXZ]

Here how about Britannica

Gorbachev’s internal reforms had meanwhile weakened his own Communist Party and allowed power to shift to Russia and the other constituent republics of the Soviet Union. In late 1991 the Soviet Union collapsed and 15 newly independent nations were born from its corpse, including a Russia with a democratically elected, anticommunist leader. The Cold War had come to an end.

Cold War - Toward a new world order

Cold War - Cold War - Toward a new world order: In the course of the 1960s and ’70s, however, the bipolar struggle between the Soviet and American blocs gave way to a more-complicated pattern of international relationships in which the world was no longer split into two clearly opposed blocs. A...

www.britannica.com

USSR did try to stay neutral, but it is correct that in the end of war USSR helped Iraq since Iran tried to invade Iraq that will create change in balance of power

The Iraq-Iran war itself is a good example of why events in 1980s do not necessarily fall in the same pattern of the Cold War. The detente period is in fact famous in world history. There are tens of videos of Brezhnev and Nixon attempting to mend ties and after that you don't see dick measuring contest between the Soviet Union and the United States anymore post the detente period. Strategic Arms Limitation Talks started in that period. You don't see unnecessary space launches, new nuclear tests over 50 megatonnes, etc.

Brezhnev drinks champagne with Nixon, only after Nixon starts first.​

The Soviets supported Iraq with MBTs, jet fighters, air defense, training, etc. from the very beginning of the war as Saddam was considered a strategic Soviet ally after Egypt chose to side with the Western bloc. They never attempted to stay neutral. As far as communists are concerned, Iran established new relations with China in 1983-1984 by Rafsanjani to import weapons from China. 1984 was a new period for our relations with China. North Korea supported Iran out of despise for the US but they didn't have much to offer, but the Chinese did. But we never approached the Soviets because they were fully behind Iraq and there was bad blood between us.

 

[Mujahid Memon]

The benefits outweigh the poor decisions of a few.

Between Pakistan and Iran who is more modern and advanced?