Iran backed Zainebiyoun brigade composed of Pakistani Shia guarding the Baghdad Damascus highway

[Philosopher]

We have to be objective, or try to. Clearly Pakistan will hold concerns and angers around this issue. One would have to be foolish to not see this, or pretending not to. Iran, Saudi Arabia nor any nation should be actively trying to recruit fighters from another sovereign nation. This is not just a disrespect to their sovereignty, but you may ignite and/or fuel tensions in that country. Assuming this is not case and these fighters are volunteering to leave their country to fight in another nation independent to outside pressure, then they should abolish their current citizenship and not return to their original nation. Of course the fact there is a considerable religious element to this issue makes it much more sensitive and complex.

However, for those of you that are debating this issue in good spirit, please be aware of those that are using such a topic as a cover to drive their sectarian agendas.

 

[925boy]

Iran doesn't want to see a Taliban ruled Afghanistan because then you're influence would be limited and would be wiped out, given that Iran is a Shia nation and we are a Sunni nation.

this is false because this assumes the Taliban of today are just like the Taliban and the same conditions as in 2001, which is false, so your context is not correct- the old Taliban is different from the New Taliban. For one, the new Taliban has to share power, but back in 2001 it had 100% of the ruling power in Afghanistan.

Fortunately for us we have Pakistan as our neighbour which prevented us from become another Iraq or Syria

whaaat?? Afghanistan was the first "Syria" or "Iraq"- these wars are all a bit different, but what they all have in comon is how nasty and long they've all been. imo Afghanistan is definitely another Syria or Iraq.

and have gotten ample support to continue our struggle and prevent ourselves from becoming a client state.

But Afghanistan is a client state today, just that the loyalty is divied up between different masters.

Its not that I have anything against Iran, its that we don't want accept imperatori from another nation especially if the citizens of that nation don't want their the very government that is in charge.

but u do this with Pakistan though..

Well said bro, before I heard of Liwa Fatimyun and Zainabyun I was pro-Iran, they don't see that this sectarianism is a huge slap across our face discounting our sovereignty; This is how we feel about this why do they try to justify it? But time and time again as I grow older I realise that we have to play by Jahil rules of "Might is right". We simply have to be strong, as strength is the only thing that is respected around the world, and without strength we can't protect anything let alone ourselves.

wow, this post by you just confirmed that you are very susceptible to propaganda, like that of this Pan Islamic guy. you are agreeing that Iranians should go to Iran when 3M of your desperate citizens ran to and live in Iran now??? please use your head. dissapointed you're blindly following this low key sectarian, xenophobic post.

 

[Aramagedon]

They are fighting in way of Allah.

 

[925boy]

Sunnis were victims yes. Of ISIS; another Sunni group.

exactly bro!!! THese people ignore the massacres of Extremist Sunni groups!! ISIS and AQ mostly kill Sunnis at the end of the day.

Nobody cares

salty bra

 

[Safriz]

They are fighting in way of Allah.

Taliban, TTP , ISIS. All claim exactly the same.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Wait a second, a thread about the Iranian regime using gullible Pakistani Shias as cannon fodder several 1000's of km away from both Pakistan and Iran in Arab lands (Northwestern Iraq and Eastern Syria) somehow involves KSA and nonsense talk about KSA doing the same? In which world has KSA ever used foreign mercenaries abroad in conflict zones? Which exact proxies do KSA control/rely on outside of KSA's borders?

Clueless people that have no clue about affairs in the Arab world and the Middle East, moreover on PDF where 99.99% of all Arab users have left, thus leaving non-Arabs to discuss Arab affairs while those same people cannot even count to 10 in Arabic, should not equate KSA and Iran.

Iran's influence in Iraq, Southern Lebanon and Syria is limited to proxies. It is not civilizational ties, ethnic, ancestral, tribal, linguistic etc. ties. The vehicle of Iranian regime influence in the Arab world is limited to Shia proxy/terrorist groups that in return for material and monetary support, adopt the Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih model. Sometimes this policy aligns as is the case in tiny Southern Lebanon where the historical (recent) enemy has been the Israeli entity. We have to remember that all those groups predate the Iranian regime. Southern Lebanon (Lebanon as a whole) was fighting against Israel long before Khomeini took power in Iran and while Iran was the closest regional ally of Israel. Similarly Shia Islamists in Iraq. They far predate any political movement (of that kind) in Iran as well. Similalry the Zaydis in Northern Yemen.
In Iraq it was Saddam/previous regimes and the common goal of wanting Iraq to turn into a Shia Mullah ruled Islamist entity aligned to the Iranian regime. In Yemen (Houthis), despite hardly any ideological or sectarian connection, the common goal was animosity towards KSA/Ali Abdullah Saleh and the West.

All the clueless trolls that keep blabbering nonsense stories about KSA using Pakistanis as cannon fodder or mercenaries, are quite frankly a joke.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

The Iranian grudge against Arabs is propagated in Abundance to Pakistan through Iranian mouthpiece Imam Bargah network.
So why are you surprised?
We as Pakistani should only like what Iran likes and dislike what Iran dislikes. The end.

A lot of people have inferiority complexes and personal problems which they use as an excuse to troll/attack nations/peoples online.

You can see all the recent nonsense threads about KSA's economy (despite being one of the best prepared nations and economies in the world to tackle the global financial crisis by every measure that you can use) that a bunch of users (trolls) of various nationalities are creating, while you never see any Arab user stating the obvious of say the crippling Iranian economy or many other nations. We simply don't care enough to obsess about such things. Similarly you will see many more foreigners obsessing/focusing on Arab affairs than whatever Arabs use of energy on foreign affairs. I have been noticing this on PDF for 7 + years and every Arab user can attest to the same thing.

As for Pakistan, I have read that KSA is the most well-liked foreign country in Pakistan alongside China (makes sense historically as well and given that KSA hosts the largest Pakistani diaspora and the religious angle - as well as civilizational ties dating back 5000 + years and geography and other cultural elements, Urdu for instance is heavily influenced by Arabic - more than any other foreign language - not to mention the script) but that some circles of Pakistani media are controlled by Shia media conglomerates which might explain this strange phenomenon of Arab bashing on PDF which is not really representative in the real world or even online (social media).

I have also noticed that invented words like "Wahhabi" (Hanbali Sunni Muslims) are thrown left and right on PDF without any consequences yet if users reply in similarly derogative ways, they are targeted but you have already written about this extensively yourself alongside tons of other users. It seems that certain moderators are turning a blind eye but that is their problem. If the owners of PDF are content with the status quo and the ongoing downfall of PDF (in terms of visitors, new users, activity, quality discussions, diversity)

You are wrong, these groups joined the conflict later. You are bothered by this thread because it raises important issues against Iran.

These Pakistani groups will be used to attack both Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Iran has already used it's Iraqi proxies to attack Saudi Arabia. It sends Lebanese Hezbollah to train Houthi rebels. Tomorrow it will use these Pakistani groups to attack Turkey or Saudi Arabia. This is a problem no one in region can afford to have.

Look what the Iraqi militias did to protesters in Iraq. They should not be involved in cracking down on demonstrators and leave that to the Iraqi gov't who will settle matters with them.

They are having a counter productive role all over the place.

Btw what cultural site did HTS attack? Can you even name one? The HTS head is a Syrian , why would he destroy his own nations heritage?



That is the case, imagine one of these groups involved in hostilities with Turkey or Saudi Arabia. It already supposedly happened during Turkeys op in Idlib. Eventually Turkey and Saudi Arabia may request from Pakistan to ban these groups.

Brother, just took a quick glance through this thread. Tons of absurd nonsense as expected. Keep exposing and countering nonsense whenever you see it if you have the energy to do it as I quite frankly no longer intend to engage in irrelevant troll feasts that don't mean a thing in the real world and won't alter the realities of the real world either.

Just saw/received tags of brother @HannibalBarca retiring on PDF. Very sad. Liked his presence and I was hoping that he could become a moderator on the Arab section of the forum or this one. How many active Arab users are left? 5? Due to real life obligations, I do not intend/cannot longer be much active so I just suggest that the old guard moves to Twitter, social media and existing Arab forums and give new Arab users (if new ones will ever register ) the chance to take the mantle. I wish them good luck, they will need it.

BTW, I noticed those false-flaggers recently as well. There is an Albanian that pretends to be Egyptian while badmouthing ALL Arab neighbors and countries (very realistic for ANY Egyptian regardless of political ideology, ethnicity) while **** ridding Erdogan. Rather pathetic but I have an good idea which Turkish user it could be.

 

[Enigma SIG]

You are wrong, these groups joined the conflict later. You are bothered by this thread because it raises important issues against Iran.

Habibi, I couldn't care less about Iran or what it does on the geopolitical stage. Sunnis however calling Pakistani Shias as traitors is an affront to a minority who are living in Pakistan and are one of the most patriotic segment of society.

These Pakistani groups will be used to attack both Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Iran has already used it's Iraqi proxies to attack Saudi Arabia. It sends Lebanese Hezbollah to train Houthi rebels. Tomorrow it will use these Pakistani groups to attack Turkey or Saudi Arabia. This is a problem no one in region can afford to have.

This is going in circles. One group attacks, other responds. Has been since the dawn of man. Everybody needs to take a chill pill.

Look what the Iraqi militias did to protesters in Iraq. They should not be involved in cracking down on demonstrators and leave that to the Iraqi gov't who will settle matters with them.

And this is what I mentioned about Bahrain hiring people from Pakistan to quell "Majority Shia" protestors. But that is fine as it is the Sunnis doing it with the permission of the Government.

Btw what cultural site did HTS attack? Can you even name one? The HTS head is a Syrian , why would he destroy his own nations heritage?

So many groups operating just mentioning names get me dizzy.

They are having a counter productive role all over the place. That is the case, imagine one of these groups involved in hostilities with Turkey or Saudi Arabia. It already supposedly happened during Turkeys op in Idlib. Eventually Turkey and Saudi Arabia may request from Pakistan to ban these groups.

How is it any different from a small segment of Sunnis who went to fight alongside Daesh/ISIS? Intelligence agencies know about Liwa Zainabyoun cadres who have joined in from Pakistan and i'm sorry to say that it was the governments responsibility to stop this from happening. A ban would be a welcome start; including those who went to work for Daesh/ISIS. Need two hands to clap.

 

[Ace of Spades]

2) Punjabi is descended from Sanskrit, do you have evidence to the contrary?

Do you have any evidence for what you are speaking or just a logic coming out of your rear like majority indians?

Here go through the thread and posts; may be you will learn something

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/punjabiat-zindabad.654133/page-13#post-12106941

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/punjabiat-zindabad.654133/page-13#post-12106991

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/punjabiat-zindabad.654133/page-13#post-12107041

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

These threads just serve to flame up internal biases and most of the flames are diverted towards a minority sect which time and time again has been vilified on the pretext of loyalties to another nation which is not the case. Similar cases could be made up against people who went in to join Daesh/ISIS from Pakistan. However we do not see the same anger directed towards them because they belong to a majority sect? The logic presented here is untenable.

Also my reply was because a respected poster whose posts I read to increase my knowledge insinuated that Sunni's were on the receiving end of violence from the Iran/Russia nexus. However conveniently forgetting that Daesh/ISIS/ISIL/HTS and the myriad Sunni rebel groups are responsible for majority of the carnage in Syria especially blowing up sites with historical and cultural and religious significance.

You are wrong here, Pakistanis of all sects disown and reject Daesh. You are stoking flames here and implying double standards which are not there.

Furthermore you claimed Daesh are Sunnis, they are most definitely not. All Sunnis have disowned them and made takfir on them. We identify them for who they are, they are Khawarij.

Thanks for the appreciative words.

From what I have seen and from talking to Syrians (whom I am very close to,) I can gauge that 90% Syrians want the end of the Assad regime. Unfortunately it has become a sectarian war because Assad (actually an Atheist) used religion to gain the support of Iran against his mostly Sunni country (even though Alawiyoon are not even Shia.) How long did he expect to stamp out genuine calls by Syrians for a say in their future?

One of my close friend's brother was jailed in the first university protest against Assad. He overreacted and killed students and tortured innocent kids, only for having a voice. I helped him write a letter to the UN to get some pressure to release his brother. Alhamdulilah they got out of Syria.

Other than this, I used to listen to Assad speeches before the revolution. I always remember they were vehemently anti-Islamic and promoted this false illusionary secular nationalism which was not connected to reality. I mean, this guy was brainwashing Arabs to believe they were Phoenicians and hence had no relation to other Arabs. His is an ideogy of hate, so I am not surprised that today he is doing the same against the Sunni Muslim majority of Syria.

This brings me to the actions of militant groups in Syria. Yes, human rights violations have been committed on all sides. We saw the massive human rights violations of a third party, Daesh, those were the televised to the whole world.

However what Assad regime did to Idlib, Homs, Hama, Aleppo, and other cities deserves mention too. PKK/YPG ethnic cleansing, with full Assad blessing, of Sunni Arabs, Turkmens, and Kurds also should not be forgotten. Those crimes are equal to those of Daesh.

From looking at maps and gathering information from Syrians, the Sunni Muslim rebels (Arab, Turkmen, Kurd) have been fighting a largely defensive war. Considering that the vast majority of refugees and war victims have been Sunni as well. You can make your own analysis.

Now, to get back on topic, our Pakistani and Afghan citizens are fighting under an Iranian proxy to brutalize Syrian civilians. Yes, there are cases of rape, sex camps, torture, and blatant murder of civilians by these proxies. Much to the shame of Pakistanis and Afghans.

Are we surprised? We read about this in Iraq also. Iranian proxies did the same thing when they took Western Iraq's Sunni Arab cities like Fallujah. It is an organized genocide in the making, neither women, children, or elderly are spared.

This is why I applaud Turkish attacks on Liwa Zanabiyoun. I am glad action is being taken against them, while our government sits idle and worries about Iran's reaction.

Liwa Zanabiyoun should be declared a terrorist group ASAP. All people affiliated, recruiting for, or helping them need to be given the death penalty. We cannot afford this sectarian brainwashing of our citizens. It is a cancer for our society. Pro-Indian Iranian designs are well known. We should treat them as the enemy they are.

 

[Falcon29]

Brother, just took a quick glance through this thread. Tons of absurd nonsense as expected. Keep exposing and countering nonsense whenever you see it if you have the energy to do it as I quite frankly no longer intend to engage in irrelevant troll feasts that don't mean a thing in the real world and won't alter the realities of the real world either.

Just saw/received tags of brother @HannibalBarca retiring on PDF. How many active Arab users are left? 5? Due to real life obligations, I do not intend/cannot longer be much active so I just suggest that the old guard moves to Twitter, social media and existing Arab forums and give new Arab users (if new ones will ever register ) the chance to take the mantle. I wish them good luck, they will need it.

BTW, I noticed those false-flaggers recently as well. There is an Albanian that pretends to be Egyptian while badmouthing ALL Arab neighbors and countries (very realistic for ANY Egyptian regardless of political ideology, ethnicity) while **** ridding Erdogan. Rather pathetic but I have an good idea which Turkish user it could be.

The pro-Iran crowd is trying to shift discussion away from topic by attempting to equate KSA to Iran. It is simply not true that KSA sponsors proxy groups and uses them for revolutionary purposes in the region in scale Iran does. Also, it is not true that Sunni's be default support Saudi Arabia, actually many Sunni's especially in Arab world are very critical of Saudi gov't and many times take it even farther by developing a grudge against Saudi's. So this loyalty to Saudi Arabia doesn't exist in Sunni world. Many people simply don't like the Iranian gov't and by criticizing them does not mean they are in favor of Saudi gov't.

I do not know about the Albanian guy, have seen him here and there. I don't mind his political views and I don't know to what extent he is Egyptian though. But I definitely see lots of Iranian people masquerading as French, Iraq and other European backgrounds in some cases.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Sunnis however calling Pakistani Shias as traitors is an affront to a minority who are living in Pakistan and are one of the most patriotic segment of society.

Only those who join Liwa Zanabiyoun are traitors.

How is it any different from a small segment of Sunnis who went to fight alongside Daesh/ISIS? Intelligence agencies know about Liwa Zainabyoun cadres who have joined in from Pakistan and i'm sorry to say that it was the governments responsibility to stop this from happening. A ban would be a welcome start; including those who went to work for Daesh/ISIS. Need two hands to clap.

300+ Daesh have been arrested in Pakistan. We are helping Taliban to eliminate Daesh on their side if the border.

Interestingly enough, in Afghanistan Daesh are functioning as Indian and US proxies. You can look into how Kabul government is giving them dinner parties and ANA uniforms. So I would not be surprised if Iran has a hand in it too.

Taliban, TTP , ISIS. All claim exactly the same.

Raping Sunnis fi sabilillah. What a joke.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Bro there is 1 solution that would make the Iranians shit their pants tmrow... open relations with Israel

truce with israel is a possibility but there is too much indian factor. i hate iran now. what are we protecting in damascus? absolutely terrible.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Btw what cultural site did HTS attack? Can you even name one? The HTS head is a Syrian , why would he destroy his own nations heritage?

No Iranian supporter answered this question of yours.

They are equating FSA with Daesh, but two are not related. Daesh is a US proxy, we all know this, but Assad also used Daesh to discredit FSA.

 

[Falcon29]

Habibi, I couldn't care less about Iran or what it does on the geopolitical stage. Sunnis however calling Pakistani Shias as traitors is an affront to a minority who are living in Pakistan and are one of the most patriotic segment of society.

Well it seems you are speaking of Pakistani's in this regard so I am not part of that and will leave that to you guys to discuss.

This is going in circles. One group attacks, other responds. Has been since the dawn of man. Everybody needs to take a chill pill.

Saudi's never attacked Iraqi's but Iran used its Iraqi proxies to stage attack on Saudi soil. In today's region we can't have Iran igniting flames of conflict in Muslim world.

And this is what I mentioned about Bahrain hiring people from Pakistan to quell "Majority Shia" protestors. But that is fine as it is the Sunnis doing it with the permission of the Government.

I do not know of any Pakistani's in Bahrain, they have their own police force and I never seen a revolution in Bahrain. There were protests which ended. Syria is very different case and brutality of crackdown/war on Syrians far exceeds anything that happened in Bahrain. Bahraini's have a lot more rights and better quality of life than Syrians do under Assad regime.

So many groups operating just mentioning names get me dizzy.

So you cannot back your accusation up, ISIS is a cancer and we agree on that. HTS did not do any such thing as targeting cultural heritage of their own nation.

How is it any different from a small segment of Sunnis who went to fight alongside Daesh/ISIS? Intelligence agencies know about Liwa Zainabyoun cadres who have joined in from Pakistan and i'm sorry to say that it was the governments responsibility to stop this from happening. A ban would be a welcome start; including those who went to work for Daesh/ISIS. Need two hands to clap.

Who said it was different? It's illegal for anyone to join ISIS and hardly anyone from Pakistan joined them. It should be illegal for these individuals to join war in Syria as well.