Iran Assassinated over 180 Iraqi Pilots to ensure IQIAF doesn't become a threat again.

[Saddam Hussein]

I know some deep frustration and national embarrassment is making you roam this sub-forum and lash out occasionally with your "khomeinist" rant.

All I can say is: let it go bro. The war is lost.

And don't worry about our fight with the yanks. We will continue to run circles around them and prop up our strategic position at their expense.

You were the same guy that was parading Soleimani's fame around for a long time, as I said that legendary status was removed in a second.

Iranians need to stop distorting 1980's war facts trying to appear like the entire world was fighting them, this goes is hand with their desire to build this artificial state of constant resistance, it's your fuel.

None of what I wrote is false, the war being lost is not related to it.

 

[Dariush the Great]

Having said that, @Dariush the Great is the biggest clown of this sub-forum.

Out of respect for the discussion you are having with the anti Iranian guy here.. i will let this go.

 

[Arian]

America propped Iran's military up when the white-envying Shah was ruling the country, being equipped with F-14's wielding the AIM-54 missiles means you are a privileged one back in the 80's. We could say that you were the UAE of the 80's when it comes to weapons you wanted.

Iraq had to uparm its military to deal with the shiny American equipment Iran had, whilst fighting a larger enemy with more manpower. An enemy which can utilize its Shia force, as well as influence Iraq's Shias. Whilst Iraq had to rely on a smaller population, and infact.. a certain percentage of that population.

The chemical attacks were needed due to the human-wave tactics used by Iran, deploying even children whom were brainwashed as you can see in the video below.

You keep mentioning this revolution and say that I distort history. The US/Israelis armed Iran with ATGW to balance Iran further against Iraq when needed.

Let me tell you something and this is without pride, Iran's military performance in the 80's was a joke. A tactic (human wave assaults) which the PMU, our Iran worshipping lot copied in the battle of Tikrit. As a result they lost a lot of people with little gain, then the military stepped in and did a better job. Today your land forces are not any better, your technology has improved, although some of you have become delusional thinking this would save you in an all out war with the US. Better hope there won't be an all out war, you won't survive it.

You're absolutely right that Iran had superior weapons to Iraq prior to the 1979 revolution, but after the revolution a lot of things happened that almost dismantled our army like the deportation of the US expats in Iran, severing our ties with the United States because of the US embassy crisis, the US sanctions on Iran because of that, and the Nojeh Coup, our army that heavily relied on the US for remaining operational could not perform normally anymore. Kind of like the situation today's Iraq has with its F16s that we have a separate thread for it here and you have full diplomatic ties with them now. Now imagine what would happen to your F16s if the Americans completely abandon you suddenly.

But yeah, if we had attacked you before the 1979 revolution, you would've been speaking Farsi now. That's why Saddam literally took it in the a$$ in the 1975 Algiers Agreement and felt humiliated afterwards until 1980 when he saw an opportunity for revenge. And look what happened to Saddam and where Iraq is now. You're literally our client-state now.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

You're absolutely right that Iran had superior weapons to Iraq prior to the 1979 revolution, but after the revolution a lot of things happened that almost dismantled our army like the deportation of the US expats in Iran, severing our ties with the United States because of the US embassy crisis, the US sanctions on Iran because of that, and the Nojeh Coup, our army that heavily relied on the US for remaining operational could not perform normally anymore. Kind of like the situation today's Iraq has with its F16s that we have a separate thread for it here and you have full diplomatic ties with them now. Now imagine what would happen to your F16s if the Americans completely abandon you suddenly.

Indeed, and that proves that Iran underwent difficulty and crisis in 1979 and 1980. But who is to say that Iraq was not?

The Iraqi state was dealing with Kurdish insurgency in the north throughout the 70's. Israeli threat from the west, Shi'a groups (the entire south) that needed to be kept oppressed and Saddam came to power in 1979 through a coup himself, you think that didn't come with its fair share of trouble?

What about Iraq's disadvantages, you do not acknowledge them. Iranians made it look like 'the world is fighting us', this takes away your entire credibility, you can look in the mirror and keep repeating it to yourself. If the world, or US alone was truly fighting Iran, you would've fell in a few weeks.

But yeah, if we had attacked you before the 1979 revolution, you would've been speaking Farsi now. That's why Saddam literally took it in the a$$ in the 1975 Algiers Agreement and felt humiliated afterwards until 1980 when he saw an opportunity for revenge. And look what happened to Saddam and where Iraq is now. You're literally our client-state now.

Shah was just an American dog, I respect the F-14's capability and this is what was the challenge, so then you're proud of American military equipment which made Iran strong, very impressive there for the Shah.

Yeah, Iraq is a semi-reflection of Iran, Iraq's Shias that openly allowed entrance of Iran's ideology turned the country into the most corrupt and disorganized nations, means Iran is quite a place of shit to live, no wonder you and half the forum here is living abroad. But then again, even Iraq's regime change was the work of the US, something yet again you couldn't do.

But, you can keep blowing that smoke up the *** to fulfill your pride.

 

[khansaheeb]

Iran and US are natural allies,whatever US has done in ME has one way or another way helped Iran.

Divide and rule only, no allies only pawns.

 

[Arian]

Indeed, and that proves that Iran underwent difficulty and crisis in 1979 and 1980. But who is to say that Iraq was not?

The Iraqi state was dealing with Kurdish insurgency in the north throughout the 70's. Israeli threat from the west, Shi'a groups (the entire south) that needed to be kept oppressed and Saddam came to power in 1979 through a coup himself, you think that didn't come with its fair share of trouble?

What about Iraq's disadvantages, you do not acknowledge them. Iranians made it look like 'the world is fighting us', this takes away your entire credibility, you can look in the mirror and keep repeating it to yourself. If the world, or US alone was truly fighting Iran, you would've fell in a few weeks.

Man, you used chemical weapons in the war against both soldiers and Iranian civilians. You used chemical weapons against Sardast City, which is the third largest victim of WMDs in the world after Nagasaski and Hiroshima, and the United States and the Soviet Union blocked the UNSC from passing even a single resolution against you.

It remains true that both the United States and the Soviet Union supported Iraq against Iran in the war. Do you deny that? Do you deny that the French rented you Mirage F-1 fighters because you didn't have money to buy them at the time? And I have heard that the French later forgave your debts to them for the war.

When Iran claims that it fought against the world, we are referring to world powers of 80s. It remains an indisputable fact that the European powers, the United States and the Soviet Union supported Iraq against Iran.

Shah was just an American dog, I respect the F-14's capability and this is what was the challenge, so then you're proud of American military equipment which made Iran strong, very impressive there for the Shah.

Yeah, Iraq is a semi-reflection of Iran, Iraq's Shias that openly allowed entrance of Iran's ideology turned the country into the most corrupt and disorganized nations, means Iran is quite a place of shit to live, no wonder you and half the forum here is living abroad. But then again, even Iraq's regime change was the work of the US, something yet again you couldn't do.

But, you can keep blowing that smoke up the *** to fulfill your pride.

The American equipment that the Shah purchased made the Iranian Army powerful at the time. Why would I not be proud of that? Nobody denies that the Shah relied on the US too much. That's why Iranians made a revolution to overthrow him and he had no place to go when the Americans abandoned him. He lost his life and kingdom to trusting the Americans too much. Nevertheless, do you guys have the balls to kick the Americans out after 17 years of invasion? Or do you want to continue to live under the American occupation?

Only 6 million Iranians live abroad according to the Iranian opposition groups. The official numbers are much lower in the range of 1 to 2 million people. Iran's population is 83 million people. Iraq's population is 37 million people and yet 9.5 million Iraqis live abroad as of 2020, most of them are refugees.

 

[nahtanbob]

Only 6 million Iranians live abroad according to the Iranian opposition groups. The official numbers are much lower in the range of 1 to 2 million people. Iran's population is 83 million people. Iraq's population is 37 million people and yet 9.5 million Iraqis live abroad as of 2020, most of them are refugees.

There are 700,000 - 1 million Iranians living in USA alone. A lot of them are well educated

 

[Arian]

There are 700,000 - 1 million Iranians living in USA alone. A lot of them are well educated

Yes, but that's according to Iranian groups. The US consensus in 2006 concluded that only 200,000 to 300,000 Iranians lived in the United States, which was rejected by Iranian-Americans at the time as they believed that they were intentionally miscounted. I personally think California alone hosts more than 500,000 Iranians.

Nevertheless, the United States has by far the largest Iranian diaspora. The number of Iranians abroad in other countries never comes close to that.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

Man, you used chemical weapons in the war against both soldiers and Iranian civilians. You used chemical weapons against Sardast City, which is the third largest victim of WMDs in the world after Nagasaski and Hiroshima, and the United States and the Soviet Union blocked the UNSC from passing even a single resolution against you.

It remains true that both the United States and the Soviet Union supported Iraq against Iran in the war. Do you deny that? Do you deny that the French rented you Mirage F-1 fighters because you didn't have money to buy them at the time? And I have heard that the French later forgave your debts to them for the war.

When Iran claims that it fought against the world, we are referring to world powers of 80s. It remains an indisputable fact that the European powers, the United States and the Soviet Union supported Iraq against Iran.

These governments capitalized on an Iraqi need, fueled by GCC money to purchase a massive amount of weaponry. They not only did that, they ensured no Iraqi victory and kept both sides balanced, as soon as Iraq gained an upper edge, Iran was supplied with weaponry (contra affair).

The American equipment that the Shah purchased made the Iranian Army powerful at the time. Why would I not be proud of that? Nobody denies that the Shah relied on the US too much. That's why Iranians made a revolution to overthrow him and he had no place to go when the Americans abandoned him. He lost his life and kingdom to trusting the Americans too much. Nevertheless, do you guys have the balls to kick the Americans out after 17 years of invasion? Or do you want to continue to live under the American occupation?

Only 6 million Iranians live abroad according to the Iranian opposition groups. The official numbers are much lower in the range of 1 to 2 million people. Iran's population is 83 million people. Iraq's population is 37 million people and yet 9.5 million Iraqis live abroad as of 2020, most of them are refugees.

Because you linked your pride of a strong Shah-era Iran to yourself, it was American equipment for a good obeyer.

As for Iraq, it never rely obeyed the US, but also we have no interest to kick the US out of airbases. That's Iran's constant crying and their minions in Iraq repeating the same.

Canada, US and the Gulf states are full of Iranians, many who no longer identify as Iranian (especially in the west), who knows how many do not fall under these statistics. Anyway, what do you prove with your calculation. That Iraq has more refugees abroad? I am not surprised, Iraq saw 3 wars after the Iran-Iraq war, you didn't see any other war.

 

[Sineva]

Its ironic but amongst all the iran bashing,par for the course for a washington think tank naturally[LOL],the wilson center report does actually contain the likely real reasons for these killings,tho sadly its reduced to nothing more than an easily overlooked single sentence right at the end of the 12th paragraph

" In November, US soldiers discovered the Jadriya Bunker, where the Badr Brigade was holding and torturing former pilots, likely of Mi-24 Hind attack helicopters, which were decisive in crushing the March 1991 uprising against Saddam’s regime in southern Iraq. "

What was happening here was not some pointless campaign of revenge by the iri against a long defunct military institution that in real terms had virtually ceased to exist as a threat to iran militarily in the immediate aftermath of desert storm,and indeed by the time of the us invasion in 2003 had ceased to exist period.
The sad fact of the matter is that this was part of the sectarian and INTER-sectarian blood letting that took place in the aftermath of the overthrow of the bathist state and reached its [first] peak during the sectarian near civil war that the allied al qaeda and bathist remnant had brought about in the mid 2000s,with the americans unwitting help of course[theres that unforseen consequences thing that I was talking about in my previous post in this thread].
PS
To all of the members in the tinfoil hat brigade posting in this thread,just remember that altho your metallic foil brain shield may protect you from the [insert favorite conspiracy here] mind control beams,it wont protect you from the mind control devices hidden in the fillings in your teeth,nor will it protect you from the alien gay microwaves that will make your d!ck fall off⤵,so make sure you wrap that in tinfoil as well.

 

[Arian]

These governments capitalized on an Iraqi need, fueled by GCC money to purchase a massive amount of weaponry. They not only did that, they ensured no Iraqi victory and kept both sides balanced, as soon as Iraq gained an upper edge, Iran was supplied with weaponry (contra affair).

So you're already admitting that you had their support, as well as the support of the Arab League (excluding Syria, Lebanon and Libya). I don't see what you're objecting to then. The Europeans, the United States, the Soviet Union and the Arab League supported you. And you have acknowledged it. What's left to discuss?

The contra affair did not involve heavy equipment or any game changing weapons. But Iranians have never rejected the reality of the Contra Affair. But again, that was nothing compared to what the Iraqis received throughout the war, and their massive use of chemical weapons in the last two years of the war which was never condemned by the United Nations Security Council.

Because you linked your pride of a strong Shah-era Iran to yourself, it was American equipment for a good obeyer.

As for Iraq, it never rely obeyed the US, but also we have no interest to kick the US out of airbases. That's Iran's constant crying and their minions in Iraq repeating the same.

Canada, US and the Gulf states are full of Iranians, many who no longer identify as Iranian (especially in the west), who knows how many do not fall under these statistics. Anyway, what do you prove with your calculation. That Iraq has more refugees abroad? I am not surprised, Iraq saw 3 wars after the Iran-Iraq war, you didn't see any other war.

I don't see you shy away from the receive you supported during the war. Why should I not feel proud of the equipment that the Iranian Army possessed and operated before the revolution?

The United States has the largest number of Iranian diaspora. Canada and Arab Sheikhdoms in the Persian Gulf do not have that many Iranians.

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Iranians abroad or Iranian diaspora are Iranian people living outside Iran and their children born abroad.[1][2][3][4][5][6]

According to various sources, in 2010, there were an estimated between 2 to 3 million Iranians living abroad, mostly in North America, Europe, Persian Gulf States, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Australia and the broader Middle East.[7][8][9] Others estimate a lower number, of around 1.5 million or less.[10] For the most part, they emigrated after the Iranian Revolution in 1979.[11]

Iranian diaspora - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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So, the number includes even second generation and third generation Iranians. It's pretty inclusive. The opposition groups estimate between 5 to 6 million Iranians live abroad. The truth is probably somewhere in between. 2 to 3 million Iranians living abroad sounds correct to me.

The reason that we didn't see another war after the Iraq-Iran war is because we weren't hallucinating like Saddam. Saddam thought that he had become powerful after the support it had received during the war. He started to act cocky because he was dumb and he didn't realize that everything he had was because of the US-Iran animosity at the time. Not because anybody took him seriously.

You didn't answer me though: Do Iraqis have the balls to liberate their country from the US occupation after 17 years? We made a revolution in 1979 because the Shah relied too much on the Americans. What about you?

 

[nahtanbob]

Canada, US and the Gulf states are full of Iranians, many who no longer identify as Iranian (especially in the west), who knows how many do not fall under these statistics. Anyway, what do you prove with your calculation. That Iraq has more refugees abroad? I am not surprised, Iraq saw 3 wars after the Iran-Iraq war, you didn't see any other war.

I never knew of an Iranian-American who did not identify with their heritage. They might not be fond of the current Iranian government. that is a different discussion

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

Revenge is sweet. They bombed Kurdish kids and women the so called majoosis by chemical weapons. I am not a kurd but i feel for them.

By refusing to stay in Iran they indirectly announced that they don't regret the past hence signing their own death sentence. They could be potential US allies to destroy ANTI-ISIS allies of Iran therefore ISIS could have a Path into Iran what Americans and the Sauds had planned for. Let's not forget that they were former US allies.

I love israeli revenge for arming hizbullah. Revenge is really sweet.

 

[raptor22]

I love israeli revenge for arming hizbullah. Revenge is really sweet.

Well Iraq was indeed aggressor as same as isreal against Lebanon ... such a notion is that hard to grasp?

 

[Sineva]

These governments capitalized on an Iraqi need, fueled by GCC money to purchase a massive amount of weaponry. They not only did that, they ensured no Iraqi victory and kept both sides balanced, as soon as Iraq gained an upper edge, Iran was supplied with weaponry (contra affair).

The weapons supplied to iran had nothing to do with keeping "both sides balanced",these were supplied by the reagan regime in the hope that iran could use its [supposed] influence to have western hostages released from captivity in lebanon,while the monies received went to fund reagans pet terrorists in nicaragua.
There was also a literal world of difference in terms of the amounts supplied as saddam spent in 80s money tens of billions of dollars!!,the vast bulk of this coming from gcc and western lenders.
Unfortunately tho these lenders did not seem to bother factoring in the ability of iraqs war ravaged economy to repay these loans,saddam probably didnt even care about such trifles and indeed reading a lot of publications written at the time a lot of people thought that the bulk of these loans,ie the gcc ones,would likely just be written off anyway.......of course thats not what happened.
What happened was that the cursed old LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES[remember that one?] raised its ugly head once again and came back to bite saddam,the iraqis,the kuwaitis,the gcc and the west as well with a vengence[not iran tho as it quite wisely stayed out of that one]........and the rest as they say was history.
The one single thing that the west has NEVER been in its policies in the mena region is "balanced".