Invading Pakistan? The Worst Idea Yet

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thier is a big difference between invasion and making it a colony,American's suffered in both Iraq and Afghan due to their desire to stay back their,if U.S was only interested in getting back after hitting back this wars should have been noted as American conquests in history.

Pakistan can never win against U.S in a direct military confrontation,whomever think so,think to far,the only possible scenario is a guerrilla war and that if U.S plan to stay otherwise their is no stopping U.S

P.S-Ur nukes against them r of no use

What would the point of defeating the Pakistani military, without occupying and attempting to stabilize the country, be?

And Pakistani nukes do not have to be a threat to the US mainland to be an effective deterrent, since Pakistan can impose enormous indirect costs on the US and the world through targetting strategic locations in the immediate region.

 

[r3alist]

the world is not black and white

there is a state between full blown war and partial infringements - this is the relationship between pakistan and USA - and thats how the us wants it

drones and murder in pakistan

demands for pakistan to go to war against its own people

weapons to pakistan

weapons to india

talk of peace and stability


funny world......

 

[t-birds]

I personally believe the US would never consider invading Pakistan totally, though Obama had mentioned sending troops in FATA or North Waziristan if Pakistan were "unable or unwilling to act".

There have been many instances where they have carried out such brazen attacks through special forces and Afghan soliders... Most of them have been snatch and grab and information gathering.

By sending in troops on the ground to irradicate Taliban militants will almost certainly drive them towards our cities and not to mention cause a huge humanitarian crises.

This could cause huge set backs for the Pakistan both militarily and Economically.

 

[India4ever]

Interesting thread, as for India point of view.

I think this can be both good and bad for India, good because India can continue to grow and get so much more stronger economic wise, that Pakistan will never catch up with us. India military spending and higher GDP growth will to good for Pakistan if in this crisis.

Bad because, a troubled neighbour is bad for India security, and can prevent firms investing in India and can spread to India.

 

[LeGenD]

This report is a fine indication of how propaganda works. These are just pressure tactics to get the job done.

Pakistani leadership has made it clear to American leadership that only its troops can conduct military operations inside Pakistan. The mandate of foreign military operations is restricted to Afghanistan.

If more pressure is applied, my prediction is expansion of drone campaign inside Pakistan. This proposal (not yet approved by President Barak Obama) can be used as a pretext to pressure Pakistan in to allowing expansion of drone campaign.

And this is not a new proposal. Bush administration already had similar plans but drone campaign was selected as the best alternate.

Main reason is that American raids inside Pakistan might cause massive civilian casualties. These events can lead to destabilization of the country and Pakistani leadership would be in serious trouble.

Already we are paying a heavy price for WOT.

Nato's failures to be blamed on Pak... what a logic ? , Invade Pak and this war will not end in a hundred years

Are you serious? It will end with millions innocent dead and utter devastation of Pakistani infrastructure.

first of all Talibans are much more stronger than Viet people First USA has to do something about them in Afghanistan, secondly we are much much stronger than Cambodians, so if there will be no issues in Pakistan Government then definetely Pakistan will going to be the grave yard for USA, bcz still they don't know us...

Do you read history?

Vietnam has won every single conflict since the 20th century: defeated France (a colonial power), USA (a superpower), China (a world power), and Cambodia.

Vietnam's territory is filled with forests and rivers. And Vietnamese have massive expertise in jungle warfare. The invading forces cannot conduct mechanized military raids in regions other than cities.

Also, Vietnamese resistance was supported and heavily armed by Soviet Union and China during its struggle against America. However, America returned the favor to Soviet Union in Afghanistan through similar tactics.

Vietnam posits an entirely different kind of military challenge to any potential foe with respect to Pakistan.

Also, underestimation of enemy is a grave mistake. This is not 1965 brother and this is not India. We are talking about a superpower with vast amounts of resources and weaponry at its disposal.

The very reason which compelled Musharraf (than COAS) to join WOT was a single lined threat from an angry Richard Armitage: Either you support us or be prepared to be bombed back to stone age.

Within next 24 hours, Pakistan took a complete U-turn in its policy towards Afghanistan and Taliban was abandoned. Do the math.

Undoubtedly, Pakistan would lose to US.

And undoubtedly, US would fall.

Do not confuse military defeat with failure of a nation to functionally exist.

Pakistan is not Afghanistan or Iraq. It won't be as easy to control and it is a nuclear-armed state. The population of Pakistan is huge, several times larger than Afghanistan's. The United States cannot afford to send its army there in open conflict, the previous two wars have already cost them dearly. Making Pakistan the scapegoat here can't work, Pakistan can and will retaliate. This isn't the 1960s or 1970s, and we are not Cambodia. No sensible government will pursue this near-suicidal policy.

Size does not matters. Level of preparation matters.

Believe me! Common man here has no clue about horrors of war.

The previous two wars which America fought might have costed a lot on financial scale but not significantly in terms of loss of lives and hardware. The huge financial cost was expected. Wars are very expensive ventures in current times.

And Yes! This is not 1960s or 1970s. We are talking about dealing with a 21st century war machine, which is regarded as the best in the world.

I have met several intelligence and military officers and had discussions with them on these matters. They did not had funny things to share. Their perceptions were far more realistic and mature, which I found surprising.

Pakistani civilians ki tu kya hi baat hai. In talk, we can conquer the entire world.

First we need to prove ourselves with progress like China. Than we can talk about trading blows with USA.

Of course Pakistan would fall in an open conflict, but at what cost to the US? It may be the fall of Pakistan, and possibly even the breakup, assuming that this policy is followed in full, which I think is very far-fetched and seems like a doomsday prediction. In defeating Pakistan, the United States would have rung their own death-knell as well.
I repeat, I don't believe this and am not sure why I'm even considering this scenario which will clearly not take place.

Seriously, common people here think of a war as it is a joke. We need to fear Allah and pray to the Almighty to not put us in more trials and open our eyes so that we can realize ground realities and make progress. But who wants to understand?

The message from devastating earthquake and floods was not enough? Do we need a devastating war too?

Also, this war will be fought on our soil. Therefore, it will only ring our death-knell. As long as the continental US is safe, America has nothing signifcant to loose.

You are right because India will be on our side.

Are you serious too? India will openly support America. The biggest challenge to India is from Pakistan from within the subcontinent. If this threat is to be removed, why would India let the chance slip by?

Do not forget this saying: mooun mein ram ram, bagal mein churah

 

[TOPGUN]

Another bs thread waste of space... plzz close this asap all it is a hatered bubble for both Pakistan and the US.

 

[LeGenD]

America... american... .. NAtoen... a HUGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE GRAVEYARD!

Of innocent Pakistani civilians.

Please send your ground troops we are waiting. Its been a long time we have seen US forces uniform on cheap sale here in Gun market.

darn the prices gone up we want to bring them down again

This like asking a BULL to hit us with a full force. Do you understand the consequences?

Here is a glimpse:

If we are so brave, why don't we forcefully stop the dreadful Drone Campaign which has left thousands of Pakistani dead? Why wait for a full blown assault?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Of innocent Pakistani civilians.


This like asking a BULL to hit us with a full force. Do you understand the consequences?

Here is a glimpse:

YouTube - War In Iraq

If we are so brave, why don't we forcefully stop the dreadful Drone Campaign which has left thousands of Pakistani dead? Why wait for a full blown assault?

We have the 7th largest armed forces in the world, I challenge any country on earth to invade us.

If they get past the armed forces and nuclear command un touched we have millions of armed patriots who would rather die fighting then live under foreign rule.

Please understand, we are not Iraq!

 

[Dalai Lama]

The US would experience a strategic defeat - in the quest for eliminating 'terrorist havens' it would destabilize the country to the point where groups like the Taliban would rise to power, with the active support of a population seething with rage at the West, and therefore create a worse situation from a 'terrorist sanctuary' POV.

That does not even take into account the possibility of Pakistan resorting to nuking India, Israel and the Gulf oil supply chain as it sees its existence threatened- the repercussions on the global economy from such events.

US invades and Pakistan nukes India & Israel?

If the US were to invade I would think India would remain neutral. I mean if Pakistan felt threatened: nuking India/Israel would probably be the worst thing it could do. All it would achieve is ensure it's destruction.

Or would this be a "If I'm going down I'm taking you with me" kind of situation.

 

[black_magic pk]

BOGGAS topic.....no one want to invad pakistan....china is there

pakistan cant defend it self???

 

[ginger]

from anyone's point of view it is not worth doing in current time. but if US want then they can do this very easily without lunching missiles.But for that to happen few things need get clean and clear.

1.If US wants to chain China. As through Pakistan there current energy supply route about to begin. so it is worth doing.

2. how to do this:- Pak economy is in shambles. if US stopped funding then even homeland police services in border areas will get crippled. Presently most of the F-16 getting through MLUs. US can stop them or delay the whole process. this will pressurize pak to compromise. As we (ndia) can easily mount symbolic pressure on Pak by starting sheeling from J&K. even present gifts (c-130 and now apeche) can be seen in this regard

3.US can bring KSA to pressurize pak to instead "Do more" allow them "to kill more".

Regarding Nikes and its safety. Friends Even on 1 call from the US on this issue and whole world we be ready to send their Special operations Team to US just forget about India and Israel for the movement.i think by this time they already had done lot of ground work.

Some times back some senior member said on this forum that now days war start much earlier then its actual declaration come.I don't see lot of things require to nail down Pak if US is willing.

China: will be enjoying the show as they did in 71'. Not have much to speak for them coz even if it all happens. it happen on very small scale in terms of live coverage.

 

[indushek]

I don't think anybody would believe me but surely if such a thing were to happen India would be siding with Pakistan completely not because of love and brotherhood but for its own sake. Surely such a travesty would never come to be!!!

 

[ginger]

in current economic scenario... it is the USA and USA only for India and I still call this symbiotic relationship.

 

[LeGenD]

We have the 7th largest armed forces in the world, I challenge any country on earth to invade us.

If they get past the armed forces and nuclear command un touched we have millions of armed patriots who would rather die fighting then live under foreign rule.

Please understand, we are not Iraq!

My brother,

I have sung these patriotic tunes for a long time until I started to look at ground realities. We are talking about an event that can destroy our lives. Also, do not fool yourself by thinking that every person will resist the powerful invaders. Some will fight and some will run away. This is the absolute truth that no one can deny.

Iraq had the 4th largest armed forces in the world in 1990. Saddam also dared his potential adversaries to challenge him. And we know the rest.

Human patience is not unlimited. At any moment, terrible things can happen.

In current times, Pakistan is struggling for its survival. Our aim is to prosper like China and set an example in the Islamic world. Or is it self-immolation?

Unless we have a trillion dollar economy and possess the capability to meet all kinds of challenges, we have no chance.

 

[LeGenD]

Maybe an invasion can be a good thing for Pakistan because maybe it can unite all Pakistanis against US forces like when we all put our differences aside and united against india when india invaded Pakistan in 1965 and then we kicked the indians out.

Sir, invasions may unite people for a time being, but they only accelerate internal conflicts.

Have a look at the history of Iraq since invasion in 2003. Local political, secretarial, and even ethnic violence has ruined the lives of many innocent people.

Pakistan also has similar problems and they will only accelerate under non-favorable circumstances.

Also, during 1965: people lived simple lives. They were not sensitive regarding comforts and were better muslims. Things have changed a lot since than.

We are not adequately prepared to challenge USA.

Maybe the US would win with significant casualties - but what would the day after look like, you would have to administrate a country with 180 million pissed off people armed to the teeth.

First of all, who told you that 100% of 180 million pissed people can fight? In every population, a small percentage has vast experience in fighting. From the remaining precentage, some would know how to fight but they do not have proper experience. And the rest have not even touched a gun.

Also, US airpower is the key to minimize significant casualties on the ground. In over 8 years of occupation of Iraq, only 4500 american deaths have occurred. Do the math.

And have a look at how easily US forces crushed the legendary Fallujah resistance:

YouTube - (1/5) D-Day Fallujah

YouTube - (2/5) D-Day Fallujah

YouTube - (3/5) D-Day Fallujah

YouTube - (4/5) D-Day Fallujah

YouTube - (5/5) D-Day Fallujah

Or read all the details here: Second Battle of Fallujah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Organized civilian resistances do not last long against powerful adversaries.

That would probably destabilise the whole region, and would require hundreds of thousands of soldiers to occupy the country.

US did not send a huge army to overrun Afghanistan (80% in geographical size of Pakistan). Only during occupational phase, a large military force is required.

And active US military strength is 1.5 million.

And the subsequent guerilla war - would kill thousands of American soldiers and bankrupt the US economy, even if China did not call on it's debt that the US owns.

US economy is not so fragile. If it can sustain several wars, it can sustain this one too. Also, war may not be planned at this time. However, a possibility remains in the future. The outcome of WOT in Afghanistan will have a deep impact on our future course of relationship with USA.

Also, we are not economically self-sufficient. The sooner we realize this and reform ourselves, the better. The enemy can easily cripple us economically, if it wants to.

Have a look at comparison of economies of US and Pakistan:

And what about the nightmare scenario - the Pak military - thinking it will loose its nukes - went for the Samson option.

Yes! Things can get out of control. In the end, millions of innocent lives will be destroyed in Pakistan and large portions of land will become unhabitable. I am saying this from the very beginning.

A country with more than a hundred nuclear weapons has never been invaded before, we are going into uncharted territory.

Brother, we never know what may happen next.

There is zero chance of an US invasion - the Americans are not stupid, why would you, to win against a smaller, weaker adversary, attack a more powerful larger adversary.

Again! Afghanistan does not have a proper standing army like our own and neither much has been left of its infrastructure. It is a war-torn and economically crippled nation. Any nation can invade it.

Our benchmark is considerably higher. Iraq would be better comparison.

And the militants would love it, if the US invaded, it will be like Christmas, Eid and the 4th of July all rolled up into one.

They will not love it. See the Battle of Fallujah above. The only thing that saves them is safe havens inside the remote regions across the durand line. Once the barriers are breached, they won't have much places to hide. Think about it.