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International Holocaust Remembrance Day thread

Gambit,.

I salute your brilliant analogy---.
Was this for the first time? and I assure you, this lunacy is not for the last time. Your life will go by in saluting.

Holocaust = Religion!
One should believe in holocaust as one does in religion.
 
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How comes when Christians commit atrocities like killing 6 million Jews, there religion is not mentioned? Why just Nazis? Why not Christian Nazis? You do it to the Muslims all the time, but hide your religion why it comes to crimes against humanity?
Nazism was a secular ideology. The nazi motivation to finish the jewws never sprang from the christian religion.During Hitler's dictatorship, more than 6,000 clergymen, on the charge of treasonable activity, were imprisoned or executed.The same measures were taken in the occupied territories. The Nazis forbade religious youth movements, parish meetings, scout meetings, and church assets were taken. Church schools were closed, and teachers in religious institutes were dismissed. The episcopal seminary was closed, and the SA and SS desecrated churches, religious statutes and pictures.
The Nazi leadership made use of indigenous Germaic pagan imagery and ancient Roman symbolism in their propagada. Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler, subscribed either to a mixture of pseudoscientific theories, particularly social darwinism, or to mysticism and occultism, which was especially strong in the SS.
 
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A barefaced zionazi troll like @Solomon2 who so passionately justify genocide of muslims in palestine and syria is craving for sympathy by beating the same old drum of holocaust. And why is PDF even allowing it?

Btw @Solomon2 didn't u know that the apart from US and the west the rest of the world doesn't revolve around an historical incident of European racism & bigotry. And why should they?
 
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Was this for the first time? and I assure you, this lunacy is not for the last time. Your life will go by in saluting.

Holocaust = Religion!
One should believe in holocaust as one does in religion.

Hi,

Well----we agree to disagree. I have great respect for gambit and Solomon and jhungary. Just to be on this board and maintain your position with integrity is commendable.
 
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As deplorable as the holocaust was I don't understand why we should learn about the Holocaust when we have history of our own which is not taught in schools. I was traumatized during my history papers in UAE when I saw an entire page of a question: "How did the arabs cause a situation for Palestinians by invading Israel." They didn't even give a damn that there were differing views on the subject. Luckily the UAE government was sane enough even though they teach us WW1 and WW2 history which had nothing to do with the middle east they at least made us cross the question out with a big cross.

Coming to the point they never taught us any thing about UAE. The same is the story in Pakistan. Did they teach us about habbari emirate, Talpur and Rajput Dynasty, Mir Chakar and Mir Gwaharam Lashari, Soomra nation, Samna nation, Ghaznavids, Ghorids, Delhi emirate, Durannis, Lodhis, Suri Empire--- even non muslim history like the chandragupta nation, pala empire and indus valley civilization. How many of these have Pakistanis heard even though they were either Pashtun, Baloch, Sindhi or Punjabi? First teach us our own history. The west should stop imposing its history on us, holocaust or no holocaust.

Holocaust was a European crime, committed by Europeans, on Europeans, for European ideals. No doubt there should be a reference to the holocaust but to say that Pakistan MUST teach about the holocaust is absurd. Genocides have been committed for as long as humans have existed. Besides, we have our own history to cover before we go on a wild goose chase on European history.
Couldn't be explained more beautifully. It's a european disaster. We need local history. Many ethnic groups in Pakistan allege that their language and their history is not being taught in schools. Very true indeed. I think holocaust has nothing to do with us so no use teaching it. Anyone with interest however can use the net or take a historical (optional) course.

Keep posting friend. I'd like an Ahmedi or Hindu as a TT. @Dalit you too. @WebMaster look at @Dalit's posts. he brings a unique perspective and is a very patriotic Pakistani Hindu brother. Inter religious communication can help us protect our minorities better.
 
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As deplorable as the holocaust was I don't understand why we should learn about the Holocaust when we have history of our own which is not taught in schools. I was traumatized during my history papers in UAE when I saw an entire page of a question: "How did the arabs cause a situation for Palestinians by invading Israel." They didn't even give a damn that there were differing views on the subject. Luckily the UAE government was sane enough even though they teach us WW1 and WW2 history which had nothing to do with the middle east they at least made us cross the question out with a big cross.

Coming to the point they never taught us any thing about UAE. The same is the story in Pakistan. Did they teach us about habbari emirate, Talpur and Rajput Dynasty, Mir Chakar and Mir Gwaharam Lashari, Soomra nation, Samna nation, Ghaznavids, Ghorids, Delhi emirate, Durannis, Lodhis, Suri Empire--- even non muslim history like the chandragupta nation, pala empire and indus valley civilization. How many of these have Pakistanis heard even though they were either Pashtun, Baloch, Sindhi or Punjabi? First teach us our own history. The west should stop imposing its history on us, holocaust or no holocaust.


Couldn't be explained more beautifully. It's a european disaster. We need local history. Many ethnic groups in Pakistan allege that their language and their history is not being taught in schools. Very true indeed. I think holocaust has nothing to do with us so no use teaching it. Anyone with interest however can use the net or take a historical (optional) course.

Keep posting friend. I'd like an Ahmedi or Hindu as a TT. @Dalit you too. @WebMaster look at @Dalit's posts. he brings a unique perspective and is a very patriotic Pakistani Hindu brother. Inter religious communication can help us protect our minorities better.

I think I've peed off too many admin/mods on this forum to be considered for a TT. ;)

I agree with you on @Dalit brother should be seriously considered for this. He's always on topic and his posts are also thought provoking and profound.
 
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I think I've peed off too many admin/mods on this forum to be considered for a TT. ;)

I agree with you on @Dalit brother should be seriously considered for this. He's always on topic and his posts are also thought provoking and profound.
Yeah I agree. But just because you think differently doesn't mean you shouldn't be considered. Differing ideals and critical thought are equally valuable.
 
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The Holocaust should be thaught worldwide so people can realize what happens if you degrade ethnic and religious minorities and everyone looks away.
 
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The Holocaust should be thaught worldwide so people can realize what happens if you degrade ethnic and religious minorities and everyone looks away.

Mate, no one will ever care about what happened to Turks... We are muslim not christian.
 
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How comes when Christians commit atrocities like killing 6 million Jews, there religion is not mentioned? Why just Nazis? Why not Christian Nazis? You do it to the Muslims all the time, but hide your religion why it comes to crimes against humanity?
Good question. Answer is, they are hypocrite and have centuries old grudges against Muslims. When the French troops occupied Syria in 1920, the French General Henri Gouraud hit the grave of Salauddin Ayubi with his boot and said "Wakeup Salahuddin we have come again".

Nazism was a secular ideology. The nazi motivation to finish the jewws never sprang from the christian religion.During Hitler's dictatorship, more than 6,000 clergymen, on the charge of treasonable activity, were imprisoned or executed.The same measures were taken in the occupied territories. The Nazis forbade religious youth movements, parish meetings, scout meetings, and church assets were taken. Church schools were closed, and teachers in religious institutes were dismissed. The episcopal seminary was closed, and the SA and SS desecrated churches, religious statutes and pictures.
The Nazi leadership made use of indigenous Germaic pagan imagery and ancient Roman symbolism in their propagada. Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler, subscribed either to a mixture of pseudoscientific theories, particularly social darwinism, or to mysticism and occultism, which was especially strong in the SS.
Nazisim was never a secular ideology but in Hitler's own words a Christian Social movement. In my personal opinion, it was more like an ultra-nationalistic movement that had strong elements of religious intolerance, something that we see today in Israel and India. Following are few quotes from Hitler on his views regarding Jewish persecution.

The anti-Semitism of the new movement (Christian Social movement) was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.” - [Adolf Hitler, “Mein Kampf”, Vol. 1, Chapter 3].

I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.” - [Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936].

I have followed [the Church] in giving our party program the character of unalterable finality, like the Creed. The Church has never allowed the Creed to be interfered with. It is fifteen hundred years since it was formulated, but every suggestion for its amendment, every logical criticism, or attack on it, has been rejected. The Church has realized that anything and everything can be built up on a document of that sort, no matter how contradictory or irreconcilable with it. The faithful will swallow it whole, so long as logical reasoning is never allowed to be brought to bear on it.” - [Adolf Hitler, from Rauschning, _The Voice of Destruction_, pp. 239-40].

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian
and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed
.” - [Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922, countering a political opponent, Count Lerchenfeld, who opposed antisemitism on his personal Christian feelings].

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.” - [Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp. 46].
 
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Good discussion here

Nazism itself was consistently a racial ideology, and Ian Kershaw noted in his definitive biography of Hitler that one of the few things we can be certain about is that from the start of his political career to the bitter end, Hitler adhered to "anti-Semitism based on race theory."
When we look to religion, however, there is little agreement. The three main schools of thought are that the Nazis adhered to neo-paganism, that their ideology itself formed a "political religion" or that they advocated a particular form of Christianity.
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It is well established that Hitler quickly drew away from the esoteric world of the volkisch movement, because he did not want the kind of secret society of initiates that characterised that tradition. He wanted to build a mass movement. As a result, in Mein Kampf he wrote strongly in support of the Catholic Church and its traditions of authority and dogma. This was not out of any love for the content of church doctrine, but because he believed that the Nazis could use such forms to create their own "political confession," moving from "volkisch feeling" to an absolute faith in the rectitude of Nazi racial nationalism.
Hitler argued that the lack of compromise in Catholic dogma could be used as a model for Nazi Party "dogmas," implying the establishment of a dogmatic ideological faith that would be intolerant of any other such faith. In practice, however, the Nazis played fast and loose with their "party dogmas" in order to achieve political gains.
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Which brings us to the third perspective - was Hitler a Christian? Emphatically not, if we consider Christianity in its traditional or orthodox form: Jesus as the son of God, dying for the redemption of the sins of all humankind. It is a nonsense to state that Hitler (or any of the Nazis) adhered to Christianity of this form.
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Hitler often did argue in favour of the notion of a creator.For this reason, some recent works have argued Hitler was a Deist
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Was Hitler an atheist? Probably not
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Hitler's faith: The debate over Nazism and religion –


Opinion –


ABC Religion & Ethics

(Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
 
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While the death of the Jews during the holocaust was unfortunate... I think its atrociously despicable that the word "holocaust" is used to replace the words like "genocide"... Loss of life is exactly that.. the Jews don't earn a special seat because they were mistreated. If you wanna bring up the holocaust, be prepared to mention the struggle of the Ukrainians against Stalin, or even the Rwandans.
 
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Nazism was a secular ideology. The nazi motivation to finish the jewws never sprang from the christian religion.During Hitler's dictatorship, more than 6,000 clergymen, on the charge of treasonable activity, were imprisoned or executed.The same measures were taken in the occupied territories. The Nazis forbade religious youth movements, parish meetings, scout meetings, and church assets were taken. Church schools were closed, and teachers in religious institutes were dismissed. The episcopal seminary was closed, and the SA and SS desecrated churches, religious statutes and pictures.
The Nazi leadership made use of indigenous Germaic pagan imagery and ancient Roman symbolism in their propagada. Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler, subscribed either to a mixture of pseudoscientific theories, particularly social darwinism, or to mysticism and occultism, which was especially strong in the SS.
I really admire your posts but strongly disagree. The Nazis were Catholic Christians with strong support from the Vatican as well. Check history of ties between the Vatican and Natzis.
 
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And what about the more than eleven (11) million Muslims killed at the hands of fellow Muslims since 1948??

You've become quite the coconut. :lol:

Nazism was a secular ideology. The nazi motivation to finish the jewws never sprang from the christian religion.During Hitler's dictatorship, more than 6,000 clergymen, on the charge of treasonable activity, were imprisoned or executed.The same measures were taken in the occupied territories. The Nazis forbade religious youth movements, parish meetings, scout meetings, and church assets were taken. Church schools were closed, and teachers in religious institutes were dismissed. The episcopal seminary was closed, and the SA and SS desecrated churches, religious statutes and pictures.
The Nazi leadership made use of indigenous Germaic pagan imagery and ancient Roman symbolism in their propagada. Many Nazi leaders, including Adolf Hitler, subscribed either to a mixture of pseudoscientific theories, particularly social darwinism, or to mysticism and occultism, which was especially strong in the SS.

Wrong, read even the first quarter of Mein Kampf and you will find plenty of reference by the man himself that the extermination of Jews was a Christian cause.

Quotes from chapter 2 of Mein Kampf,

"I was not in accord with its sharp anti-Semitic tone; but again and again I found that its arguments gave me grounds for serious thought. Anyhow, it was as a result of such reading that I came to know the man and the movement which then determined the fate of Vienna. These were Dr. Karl Lueger and the Christian Socialist Movement. At the time I came to Vienna I felt opposed to both. I looked on the man and the movement as ‘reactionary’. But even an elementary sense of justice enforced me to change my opinion when I had the opportunity of knowing the man and his work, and slowly that opinion grew into outspoken admiration when I had better grounds for forming a judgment."

"And so I believe to-day that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew I am defending the handiwork of the Lord".

Chapter 3

"In nearly all the matters in which the Pan-German movement was wanting, the attitude of the Christian Social Party was correct and well-planned".

"If Dr. Karl Lueger had lived in Germany, he would have been ranked among the great minds of our people".

Final quote

"And the Founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of His estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God; because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. But at that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews; whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes. They even enter into political intrigues with the atheistic Jewish parties against the interests of their own Christian nation". p. 174

Anyway you can find most of them here, Mein Kampf - Wikiquote or just pickup a copy and read you will plenty of religious justification for the crimes Hitler was planning on committing.
 
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