Providence
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Suppose those guys did. What's your point again ?
Cousin marriages also produces prodigies
Like who ?
Intermarriage 'major risk factor' in Peterborough child deaths
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Suppose those guys did. What's your point again ?
Like who ?
untitled
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See post #13
Maarkhoor
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All of marriages in my family nearly 99% cousin marriages alhamdolillah not a single child death or disability happen, many male members are in armed forces and police along with many engineers and doctor so no I.Q problem. It is all bullshit spread by poorly researched medical journals.
There's nothing wrong with cousins getting married, scientists say
The risk of giving birth to babies with genetic defects as a result of marriages between first cousins is no greater than that run by women over 40 who become pregnant, according to two scientists who call for the taboo on first-cousin families to be lifted.
Women in their forties are not made to feel guilty about having babies and the same should apply to cousins who want to marry, said Professor Diane Paul of the University of Massachusetts in Boston and Professor Hamish Spencer of the University of Otago in Dunedin, New Zealand. Although first-cousin marriages are legal in Britain, there have been calls to ban the practice because of reports that it has resulted in a higher-than-average incidence of birth defects in certain immigrant communities where it is common and culturally acceptable.
However, Professors Paul and Spencer said that the risk of congenital defects is about 2 per cent higher than average for babies born to first-cousin marriages – with the infant mortality about 4.4 per cent higher – which is on a par with the risk to babies born to women over 40. "Women over the age of 40 have a similar risk of having children with birth defects and no one is suggesting they should be prevented from reproducing," said Professor Spencer, whose co-authored study is published in the online journal Public Library of Science.
First-cousin marriages were once quite common in Europe, especially among the elite – Charles Darwin married his first cousin Emma Wedgwood – but that changed in the late 19th-century as people, especially women, became more socially mobile and the risks became more evident. The stigma attached to first-cousin marriages was supported by early studies into human genetics suggesting that "recessive" versions of a gene (which are not expressed unless there are two of them, one from each parent) are more likely to be expressed in the children of genetically related parents, as well as more likely to be defective.
Most states in America have either outlawed or restricted the practice, as has China, Taiwan and both North and South Korea. Professor Spencer, an evolutionary zoologist, said these laws should be repealed, especially in America, where he said they were drafted in a way that discriminated against the rural poor and immigrants: "Neither the scientific nor social assumptions behind such legislation stand up to close scrutiny. Such legislation reflects outmoded prejudices about immigrants and the rural poor and relies on over-simplified views of heredity. There is no scientific grounding for it."
In the UK, the issue came to the fore when the MP Phil Woolas, now the Immigration minister, claimed earlier this year that first-cousin marriages within Asian communities in Britain resulted in an increasing number of children with health problems. "A lot of arranged marriages are with first cousins, and that produces lots of genetic problems in terms of disability [in children]," Mr Woolas said.
Peter Corry of St Luke's Hospital in Bradford estimates that among people of Pakistani descent in the city, 55 per cent of whom marry first cousins, the risk of recessive genetic disorders – the type due to related parents – is between 10 and 15 times higher than in the general population. A 2004 study found that 13 out of 1,000 Asian children born in the Bradford area had inherited recessive disorders, which can lead to disabilities.
A family affair: Cousins who tied the knot
Jerry Lee Lewis
The rock 'n 'roll star infamously married his 13-year-old first cousin once removed, 10 years his junior, in 1957. His popularity initially fell but recovered when he began performing country and western music.
Jesse James
The Missouri outlaw married his first cousin Zerelda "Zee" Mimms in 1874 at the height of the James-Younger gang's reign. They had two children and remained together until Jesse's death, aged 34, 12 years later.
H G Wells
The science fiction author of The Time Machine and The War of the Worlds married his first cousin Isabel Mary Wells in 1891 but left her after three years to marry one of his students, with whom he had two children.
Edgar Allan Poe
The American gothic poet secretly married his 13-year-old first cousin, Virginia Eliza Clemm, in 1834. She died of tuberculosis in 1847.
Johann Sebastian Bach
In 1707 Bach married his second cousin Maria Barbara Bach and had seven of his 20 children with her.
Khalid Mahmood
The Birmingham MP married his first cousin, Rifat, when he was in his twenties. They had a child – now a teenager – but separated in 1992.
Charles Darwin
The naturalist, whose work forms the basis for contemporary evolutionary theory, married his first cousin Emma Wedgwood in 1839. They had 10 children, to whom he was a devoted father.
There's nothing wrong with cousins getting married, scientists say | Science | News | The Independent
Maarkhoor
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Will Our Children Be Normal?
Perhaps the most pervasive, and unmerited, argument regarding cousin marriages is that the children born to such couples will have mental or physical disabilities, which become a burden on society in terms of tax dollars.
The question is: How risky is it really to have a child with your cousin? The answer is: Not nearly as risky as so many other factors for which there is no legislation!
The above graph represents what are called "multifactoral" disorders. These multifactoral disorders include a wide range of problems, and are often associated with low birth weight or premature birth. These problems can include stillbirth, SIDS, under-developed lungs and other vital organs, mental retardation or learning disabilities, anemia, and heart conditions.
This chart indicates the 3% background risk shared by all pregnant women, and comparative increases of risk for various groups.
The graph above illustrates various inherited types of conditions, as well as the background risk (which everybody has) and the increased risk for specific groups. In general, a child who inherits a recessive disorder inherits one defective gene from each parent. Examples of recessive diseases include Cystic Fibrosis, PKU, Tay Sachs and Sickle Cell.
Dominant and Gender- or X-linked disorders, on the other hand, are ones in which the defective gene is inherited from only one of the parents. Any parent who is a carrier has a 50% chance of passing the disease on to their children. Dominant gene disorders include Neurofibromatoses, Marfan Syndrome, and PKD. Some examples of X-linked disorders are Hemophilia and Fragile X Syndrome.
The conditions that are of most concern in cousin couples are recessive conditions, where one defective gene is inherited from each parent. First cousins have a 1.5 to 3% increased risk of having a child with birth defects that are inherited. However, some couples may share no recessive traits, and would therefore have no increased risk.
First cousins, once removed have an increased risk of .75 to 1.5%, and second cousins have no higher risk than an unrelated couple. Double first cousins are rare, but have approximately twice the risk of other first cousin relationships. First cousins whose parents are identical twins are also rare, and have a significantly higher risk as well, having the same number of shared genes as half siblings.
An Issue Of Reproductive Rights
In the spring of 2000, some members of Maryland's House of Representatives presented a bill to prohibit marriages between first cousins in their state. Although this is an infrequent occurrence in Maryland (counties reported a range of one to three incidents per year, mostly from non-residents) the sponsors of the bill believed that such marriages produced physically and mentally challenged children, thus placing an enormous burden on taxpayers' money. They argued for the bill based on erroneous statistics, but failed to validate their information with evidence. The bill died in the senate, but the sponsors have expressed a desire to resubmit it in 2002.
In the spring of 2001, quite a different scenario took place in the state of New Hampshire. First cousin marriages had long been forbidden in that state, and at the request of one of her constituents, Delegate Anne Grassie presented a bill to overturn that law, and allow one inidual to marry the woman of his choice.
Do cousin couples who wish to bear children pose such a risk to society that there should be legislation preventing their right to pursue happiness?
More than four million women become pregnant in America each year, each with a 3% background risk of having a child with a birth defect. Out of those four million women, it is estimated that:
Clearly the evidence proves that legislation against first cousin marriages is an unnecessary measure of prevention. There are far more high risk lifestyles to be concerned with. We, as a society, make use of every opportunity to educate women and couples about how their lifestyle choices can affect their unborn children, while allowing them the freedom of choice. Do first cousins deserve any less consideration?
An Alternative Solution:
While the risk of birth defects is only very slight, it is still something that all first cousin couples should take into consideration. Genetic Counselors are able to determine the margin of risk for a couple by carefully examining the medical history of both sides of the family. In some cases, if a history of genetic disorder is revealed, blood tests can determine whether the couple actually carry the defective gene.
Insurance usually will cover the costs associated with genetic counseling, however, many individuals do not have adequate coverage. Those that do often will not seek counseling for fear of their kinship being exposed, thus making them vulnerable to discrimination and social prejudice. Others may not even realize that medical options exist.
First cousins should be aware of the availability of genetic counseling and testing, and encouraged (but not mandated) to seek the advice of a qualified expert. Information packets could be distributed to any first cousin couple applying for a marriage license, and a voucher program could make counseling more affordable to those who do not have insurance. By providing such information and options, we would be giving cousins the freedom to make an informed decision.
What do the experts have to say??
"In terms of legislation, personally I don't feel laws against cousin marriages are necessary. I think the legislators could focus on an education program for cousin relationships. Perhaps funding could be found for vouchers for genetic counseling services for those without medical coverage. I don't feel people should be mandated to see genetic counseling, but every obstacle should be removed to allow them the opportunity." ~ Jacquelyn Krogh, MS, CGC
"We do not restrict people with autosomal dominant disorders such as Huntington disease who have a 50:50 risk to pass the condition to their children from marrying or conceiving! There is no social pathology associated with marrying a cousin and in fact cousin marriages are the norm in many parts of the world..." ~ Robin L. Bennett, MS, CGC
In the near future I would expect more states to make it illegal but, eventually the facts will become known and the trend will reverse. There is no evidence to support the notion that generations of cousin marriage in itself results in genetic problems. The evidence indicates quite the opposite. One must challenge any statements about the dangers of cousins marrying and make people aware of the facts. That way the next generation may give up the myth. ~ Martin Ottenheimer, Professor of Anthropology
I'm not against healthy relationships. I've not come across any research to suggest that cousin relationships, between two consulting adults are damaging psychologically in any way. Cousins share an exclusive history with each other. It's a relationship where you don't have to create a shared history or experience. You have a head start on intimacy, in a sense the work is already done for you. ~ Dr. Robi Ludwig, Ph.D.
Perhaps the most pervasive, and unmerited, argument regarding cousin marriages is that the children born to such couples will have mental or physical disabilities, which become a burden on society in terms of tax dollars.
The question is: How risky is it really to have a child with your cousin? The answer is: Not nearly as risky as so many other factors for which there is no legislation!
The above graph represents what are called "multifactoral" disorders. These multifactoral disorders include a wide range of problems, and are often associated with low birth weight or premature birth. These problems can include stillbirth, SIDS, under-developed lungs and other vital organs, mental retardation or learning disabilities, anemia, and heart conditions.
This chart indicates the 3% background risk shared by all pregnant women, and comparative increases of risk for various groups.
The graph above illustrates various inherited types of conditions, as well as the background risk (which everybody has) and the increased risk for specific groups. In general, a child who inherits a recessive disorder inherits one defective gene from each parent. Examples of recessive diseases include Cystic Fibrosis, PKU, Tay Sachs and Sickle Cell.
Dominant and Gender- or X-linked disorders, on the other hand, are ones in which the defective gene is inherited from only one of the parents. Any parent who is a carrier has a 50% chance of passing the disease on to their children. Dominant gene disorders include Neurofibromatoses, Marfan Syndrome, and PKD. Some examples of X-linked disorders are Hemophilia and Fragile X Syndrome.
The conditions that are of most concern in cousin couples are recessive conditions, where one defective gene is inherited from each parent. First cousins have a 1.5 to 3% increased risk of having a child with birth defects that are inherited. However, some couples may share no recessive traits, and would therefore have no increased risk.
First cousins, once removed have an increased risk of .75 to 1.5%, and second cousins have no higher risk than an unrelated couple. Double first cousins are rare, but have approximately twice the risk of other first cousin relationships. First cousins whose parents are identical twins are also rare, and have a significantly higher risk as well, having the same number of shared genes as half siblings.
An Issue Of Reproductive Rights
In the spring of 2000, some members of Maryland's House of Representatives presented a bill to prohibit marriages between first cousins in their state. Although this is an infrequent occurrence in Maryland (counties reported a range of one to three incidents per year, mostly from non-residents) the sponsors of the bill believed that such marriages produced physically and mentally challenged children, thus placing an enormous burden on taxpayers' money. They argued for the bill based on erroneous statistics, but failed to validate their information with evidence. The bill died in the senate, but the sponsors have expressed a desire to resubmit it in 2002.
In the spring of 2001, quite a different scenario took place in the state of New Hampshire. First cousin marriages had long been forbidden in that state, and at the request of one of her constituents, Delegate Anne Grassie presented a bill to overturn that law, and allow one inidual to marry the woman of his choice.
Do cousin couples who wish to bear children pose such a risk to society that there should be legislation preventing their right to pursue happiness?
More than four million women become pregnant in America each year, each with a 3% background risk of having a child with a birth defect. Out of those four million women, it is estimated that:
- .1% (4,000) of those women are pregnant by a first cousin
- 1.1% (45,000) use cocaine
- 2.9% (119,000) smoke marijuana
- 18.8% (757,000) drink alcohol
- 18-20% of pregnant women are in abusive relationships
- 20.4% (820,000) smoke cigarettes
- 25% (1,000,000) are teenagers
- Polydrug use during pregnancy
- Pregnancy in women over 35 is on the rise
Clearly the evidence proves that legislation against first cousin marriages is an unnecessary measure of prevention. There are far more high risk lifestyles to be concerned with. We, as a society, make use of every opportunity to educate women and couples about how their lifestyle choices can affect their unborn children, while allowing them the freedom of choice. Do first cousins deserve any less consideration?
An Alternative Solution:
While the risk of birth defects is only very slight, it is still something that all first cousin couples should take into consideration. Genetic Counselors are able to determine the margin of risk for a couple by carefully examining the medical history of both sides of the family. In some cases, if a history of genetic disorder is revealed, blood tests can determine whether the couple actually carry the defective gene.
Insurance usually will cover the costs associated with genetic counseling, however, many individuals do not have adequate coverage. Those that do often will not seek counseling for fear of their kinship being exposed, thus making them vulnerable to discrimination and social prejudice. Others may not even realize that medical options exist.
First cousins should be aware of the availability of genetic counseling and testing, and encouraged (but not mandated) to seek the advice of a qualified expert. Information packets could be distributed to any first cousin couple applying for a marriage license, and a voucher program could make counseling more affordable to those who do not have insurance. By providing such information and options, we would be giving cousins the freedom to make an informed decision.
What do the experts have to say??
"In terms of legislation, personally I don't feel laws against cousin marriages are necessary. I think the legislators could focus on an education program for cousin relationships. Perhaps funding could be found for vouchers for genetic counseling services for those without medical coverage. I don't feel people should be mandated to see genetic counseling, but every obstacle should be removed to allow them the opportunity." ~ Jacquelyn Krogh, MS, CGC
"We do not restrict people with autosomal dominant disorders such as Huntington disease who have a 50:50 risk to pass the condition to their children from marrying or conceiving! There is no social pathology associated with marrying a cousin and in fact cousin marriages are the norm in many parts of the world..." ~ Robin L. Bennett, MS, CGC
I'm not against healthy relationships. I've not come across any research to suggest that cousin relationships, between two consulting adults are damaging psychologically in any way. Cousins share an exclusive history with each other. It's a relationship where you don't have to create a shared history or experience. You have a head start on intimacy, in a sense the work is already done for you. ~ Dr. Robi Ludwig, Ph.D.
Stag112
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@MaarKhoor I think you have made a point very well. May be not the one you wanted to make, but still.
Providence
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Your post #13 is just a blind assertion. Not relevant to genetic degradation being discussed in this thread.
Dude, genetic deformation doesn't mean you will be born with one less limb or 5 kidneys or whatever. It can mean something intangible too. Like the frequency with which you fall ill to certain types of diseases etc.
Long term inter-breeding examples are very well documented among animal species in several national parks and wildlife sanctuaries.
Silverblaze
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Dr. Abdul qadeer khan also mentioned this many years ago.
ISLAMABAD: Cousin-marriages main cause of abnormal births - Newspaper - DAWN.COM
ISLAMABAD: Cousin-marriages main cause of abnormal births - Newspaper - DAWN.COM
qaisar52
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As per our Prophet Muhammed (PCBH) The First choice to you and your Sister will be 1st cussion from your Uncle.(Fathers brothers) Second is from your Aunt (Father Sisters) Then your Uncle (Mother brothers and then Mothers Sisters) If you do not have suitable partner the can go outside.
My second point is that you can not be sure unless make a full check up of both families if going to marry outside of family. In family you may know if there are some medical issues. But Majority of people married outside with out knowing anything about other family in regards with medical issue.
So choice is only as our Prophet and 12 Imams guideline.
My second point is that you can not be sure unless make a full check up of both families if going to marry outside of family. In family you may know if there are some medical issues. But Majority of people married outside with out knowing anything about other family in regards with medical issue.
So choice is only as our Prophet and 12 Imams guideline.
VCheng
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None taken. My remark is merely an observation that describes the real motivation in a large majority of cousin marriages. Health and IQ considerations are secondary to money.
Please post the source of that declaration.
Pakistani E
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Some parts of P@ki culture are weird as &%$&. You live all your life calling your cousin baji baji, but as soon as you hit 18~ they say beta teri biwi.
And there isn't anything in Islam that encourages cousin marriage. It's all invented by Cultural supremecists/supporters of cousin marriges to justify it through religion.
VCheng
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Some parts of **** culture are weird af. You live all your life calling your cousin baji baji, but as soon as you hit 18~ they say beta teri biwi.
And there isn't anything in Islam that encourages cousin marriage. It's all invented by Cultural supremecists/supporters of cousin marriges to justify it through religion.
It holds true the other way too from bhai bhai to suniye.
Pakistani E
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It's not about first cousin marriage. It's about constant marrying in cousins down the generations. That DOES cause genetics defects to become prominent as faulty ones keep getting recylced.
Hamza913
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Forget us Pakis, ALL foreigners in the UK are crazy. The Polish think their so hard doing drugs and walking in the park shirtless, the Indians blast their music so loud you would think they are deaf, and the Africans drool like babies. No wonder the UK hates us lol.
livingdead
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nobody wants to ban these marriages, they will never be banned. However contributing to 30 percent of genetically defective children when you are only 3%(of children born) is scary. May be its something else, like faulty gene among pakistanis. Is it food habits? Its surely way higher than average in UK.
@persona_non_grata the rest 97 percent contribute to 70 percent defects(probably due to late marriage, alcohol, drugs etc), still it looks like less risk than those faced by pakistanis
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