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Interfaith marriages

In Islam there is a compulsion for women not to marry non muslim before they convert to Islam but for men it is allowed to marry non muslim women (christian or jew)... Islam is not about what people think, it is about what you have been told and then Obey...

Hello,

Excited aren't we today?
Personally I meant that I will not convert anyone to my beliefs or let myself convert to another's belief and if I found solace in a person who is from a different faith then I have no issues. Though I personally identify myself if probed as a Sufi hence I said that I would like to marry a fellow Sufi.


As for Islam having compulsions I was not very much aware as my Mum is of a
Muslim origin and my Dad is not though both are pretty much atheistic.


As for your suggestion that Islam is a religion where you are told and you obey is very hard to digest and completely disagree with it.. this is my counter-argument from this post

http://www.defence.pk/forums/122112-post10.html

Holy Quran is divine and People are not, therefore their interpretation will be different as per their "nondivine" intellect , for example, Tsunami in South East Asia was seen by many as divine retribution even when they were aware of its mechanics.
--> Not everyone is competent/blessed/guided to teach and understand the Quran as it was meant.

Thanks for the infraction by the way, but you are not my guide. I am giving my personal opinions I am not asking you to follow them.


Malang
 
Atleast before giving your opinion you should, think before you write..

No ...

Its the basic rule for healthy discussion ... It is a forum not a views/opinion writing book...

And what you quote is not relavent since you cannot understand the concepts.. Of Holy Quran...and Prophet Muhammed(PBUH)
 
Hello,

honestly I still can't understand what you are saying?

Let me define certain words

1 compulsion:The use of authority, influence, or other power to force (compel) a person or persons to act or lawful use of violence (wikitionary)

2 ism : a belief or system of beliefs accepted as authoritative by some group or school (Princeton)

3 forum:a public meeting or assembly for open discussion (Princeton)

4 sufi:One who does not separate himself from others by opinion or dogma;
and who realizes the heart as the Shrine of God.
What is a Sufi?

#1 There is no compulsion implies that no one will use force against me to not do something contrary to their beliefs.

#2 in any Ism means, in any belief or philosophy not Islam per se but including it

#3 Forum implies that I and you will use our personal opinions to discuss a topic.

#4Sufis are Not necessarily Muslims as per the prevalent nomenclature of Muslim.

There is no compulsion in any ism, I would happily have a relationship with a person I like, irresp of faith.. though I would like to marry a sufi woman, if possible.

In Islam there is a compulsion for women not to marry non muslim before they convert to Islam but for men it is allowed to marry non muslim women (christian or jew)

Here are clear examples of non-compulsion in the Holy Quran

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you).

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you (of your own choice) a guardian over them.

4:79, 80 (Say to everyone of them,) 'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have (O Prophet) sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."

11:28 (Noah to his people) He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If 1 act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?°

17:53, 54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner (unto those who do not share their beliefs). Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you (Unto men O Prophet) with power to determine their Faith.

21:107 to 109 (O Prophet?) 'We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:" Declare, "Verily, what is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away then say, "I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour (of Judgment) is near or far."

22:67 To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites (of prayer) which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord (since that is the main objective of religion). You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, (then say,) `God best knows (the value of) what you do."

88:21, 22; also see 24:54 And so, (O Prophet!) exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

48:28 He it is Who has sent forth His Messenger with the (task of spreading) Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to the end that tie make it prevail over every (false) religion, and none can bear witness to the Truth as God does.

36:16, 17 (Three Messengers to their people)Said (the Messengers), "Our Sustainer knows that we have indeed been sent unto you, but we are not bound to more than clearly deliver the Message entrusted to us.'

39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man. Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper.

42:6, 48 And whoso takes for patrons others besides God, over them does God keep a watch. Mark, you are not a keeper over them. But if they turn aside from you (do not get disheartened), for We have not sent you to be a keeper over them; your task is but to preach ....

64:12 Obey God then and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away (no blame shall attach to our Messenger), for the duty of Our Messenger is just to deliver the message.

67:25, 26 And they ask, "When shall the promise be fulfilled if you speak the Truth?" Say, "The knowledge of it is verily with God alone, and verily I am but a plain warner."

60:8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

60:9 Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

Here Quran explicity shows its non-compulsion.

But you are saying that woman in Islam are forced not to marry a non Muslim or that Islam promotes violence against women who marry non Muslims.


Islam is not about what people think, it is about what you have been told and then Obey...

This statement is very uncomforting.

Are we brain dead beings/zombies/slaves that we will obey what we are told by someone who can be incomeptent and ignorant individual?

Isn't it that some Hadiths/Fatwas etc. are rejected how is this possible?
How do you know the person whose translations you rely upon is in fact a proper scholar or not with evil or spritual motives?
Or do you think yourself competent enough to read,understand and teach Quran?
This is a philosophy suited for people who blow themselves up, not Muslims..


As I said each person's interpretation of Quran will be different we must use our limited intellect and scholarly interpretations to understand, accept and reject what is being said. At the same time Pray and endeavour to understand and follow it as it was meant to be followed and understood.
As an old saying goes when the aspirant is ready knowledge appears.


Atleast before giving your opinion you should, think before you write..
No ...
Its the basic rule for healthy discussion ... It is a forum not a views/opinion writing book...

My opinons even if spontaneous our reflective of my experiences and intellect. I am not here to be diplomatic or here to impress that I think before I type at least on such issues on which I have had extensive labour previously.
And forum requires that we have communicate our views and opinons.

And what you quote is not relavent since you cannot understand the concepts.. Of Holy Quran...and Prophet Muhammed(PBUH)

As per your infractionq quote
You know nothing about Islam and you are commenting on the subject!

I disagree with you.. what I quote was my own view and not a view of Quran. So I don't know why you are acting the way you are.
Anyways I have a good understanding of Islam as half my family is Muslim though I have not seen them using force or violence against their own or others and I have had extensive reading of Islamic texts though I am not a fanatic.
What is your qualification?? just because you were brought up in a muslim family you think you are qualified??

You have no right to tell me that I have no understanding of Islam when you are so clearly trying to show compulsion in a religion with no compulsion. I think this calls for a deep introspection from your side.



Malang
 
Interesting debate here personally I don't see anything wrong in it if they're jew or christian .Infact i've heard islamic scholars (abdul green his name was i think)address this very point very interesting thins he said which was that it's wrong for some muslims to say we can marry ONLY other muslims because god has given permission for people of the book and it's there for a reason and you can't change his guidelines and just like comitting haraam acts and make it permissable- it works both ways you can't make something haraam which allah clearly made for us halal it's like changing the religion as is the case here muslim women are preferred ofcourse but yes jewish and christian women as long as they are chaste are recognised in islam one of the reasons being the kids will be muslims as religion passed from the father in islam and the women will more likely convert or atleast be influenced by islam in a positive way as the husband is the head of the household and a women is more likely to followe her husband's way most islamic scholars would say this.
People can disagree ofcourse I'm not trying to force anything on anyone to believe what I do .I will definetly for sure marry only a muslim women for as we'll be more compatible but I don't think it's right to say muslim men can only others muslims when there are allowances for chaste jews and christians.
 
Atleast before giving your opinion you should, think before you write..

No ...

Its the basic rule for healthy discussion ... It is a forum not a views/opinion writing book...

And what you quote is not relavent since you cannot understand the concepts.. Of Holy Quran...and Prophet Muhammed(PBUH)

Leave the moderation for mods and admins and donot abuse the reputation system! :angry:
Every members is entitled to have and share his/her opinion.

Thanks!
 
Leave the moderation for mods and admins and donot abuse the reputation system! :angry:
Every members is entitled to have and share his/her opinion.

Thanks!

Even if it is sarcasticly against the religion.....................Should be considerate against religions ... I have no objections to atheistic believes but i donot give my opinion against them... Is this not Sarcastic
 
Hello,

honestly I still can't understand what you are saying?

Let me define certain words

1 compulsion:The use of authority, influence, or other power to force (compel) a person or persons to act or lawful use of violence (wikitionary)

2 ism : a belief or system of beliefs accepted as authoritative by some group or school (Princeton)

3 forum:a public meeting or assembly for open discussion (Princeton)

4 sufi:One who does not separate himself from others by opinion or dogma;
and who realizes the heart as the Shrine of God.
What is a Sufi?

#1 There is no compulsion implies that no one will use force against me to not do something contrary to their beliefs.

#2 in any Ism means, in any belief or philosophy not Islam per se but including it

#3 Forum implies that I and you will use our personal opinions to discuss a topic.

#4Sufis are Not necessarily Muslims as per the prevalent nomenclature of Muslim.

Ok ... your Opinions are yours only but seems more atheistic....

Its my opinion.

Here are clear examples of non-compulsion in the Holy Quran



Here Quran explicity shows its non-compulsion.

But you are saying that woman in Islam are forced not to marry a non Muslim or that Islam promotes violence against women who marry non Muslims.




This statement is very uncomforting.

Are we brain dead beings/zombies/slaves that we will obey what we are told by someone who can be incomeptent and ignorant individual?

Isn't it that some Hadiths/Fatwas etc. are rejected how is this possible?
How do you know the person whose translations you rely upon is in fact a proper scholar or not with evil or spritual motives?
Or do you think yourself competent enough to read,understand and teach Quran?
This is a philosophy suited for people who blow themselves up, not Muslims..


As I said each person's interpretation of Quran will be different we must use our limited intellect and scholarly interpretations to understand, accept and reject what is being said. At the same time Pray and endeavour to understand and follow it as it was meant to be followed and understood.
As an old saying goes when the aspirant is ready knowledge appears.




My opinons even if spontaneous our reflective of my experiences and intellect. I am not here to be diplomatic or here to impress that I think before I type at least on such issues on which I have had extensive labour previously.
And forum requires that we have communicate our views and opinons.



As per your infractionq quote


I disagree with you.. what I quote was my own view and not a view of Quran. So I don't know why you are acting the way you are.
Anyways I have a good understanding of Islam as half my family is Muslim though I have not seen them using force or violence against their own or others and I have had extensive reading of Islamic texts though I am not a fanatic.
What is your qualification?? just because you were brought up in a muslim family you think you are qualified??

You have no right to tell me that I have no understanding of Islam when you are so clearly trying to show compulsion in a religion with no compulsion. I think this calls for a deep introspection from your side.



Malang

If you had any belief or understanding of Islam, you will know that with holy quran guidance is given by Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) and to follow what has been told and described by Quran and Prophet is Islam, furthermore, if some issues are not mentioned in Quran and hadis then you should consult with the scholars of that time, and provided the scholars have consenses on some issues and if they donot agree on some issue then go by your own understanding.

What ever you posted is not relevant to the InterFaith marriage and gives no indication of force or unforce or choice etc. for Interfaith marriage.

Atheists have the logic of Understanding things on their Own...

ISMs are the ways given and obeyed by the people who have Faith in what ever they believe In.
 
Even if it is sarcasticly against the religion.....................Should be considerate against religions ... I have no objections to atheistic believes but i donot give my opinion against them... Is this not Sarcastic

I am still not able to understand? Where did I go against any religion? even if I did so what??
Actually it is you who is wrongly portraying the Holy Quran.

Ok ... your Opinions are yours only but seems more atheistic.... Its my opinion.

As I said before I am a sufi, my mother's family is Muslim but I donot call myself Muslim nor do I reject the holy Quran a the same time I donot follow all aspects of it. My parents are atheist but as one gets older I think one develops faith.


If you had any belief or understanding of Islam, you will know that with holy quran guidance is given by Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) and to follow what has been told and described by Quran and Prophet is Islam, furthermore, if some issues are not mentioned in Quran and hadis then you should consult with the scholars of that time, and provided the scholars have consenses on some issues and if they donot agree on some issue then go by your own understanding.


I find myself quite incompetent to tow my own boat where scholars also have difficulty.. as I said I do not reject the Holy Quran but only interpretations.
I follow Sufism which basically means devotion to God without any dogmas or discrimination. I am not a fanatic by the way.

What ever you posted is not relevant to the InterFaith marriage and gives no indication of force or unforce or choice etc. for Interfaith marriage.

I don't seem to understand, you are justifying violence against a person who loves some one else and wants to seek solace in one's partner.. I don't think this is written in the Holy Quran...
Personally I would let one marry for love rather than seek a person from my religion or otherwise.

Atheists have the logic of Understanding things on their Own...

well as far as Atheists are concerned they feel themselves to be pragmatic.

ISMs are the ways given and obeyed by the people who have Faith in what every they belief In.

Isms also includes Islam and atheism

PS: I think you are not able to understand what I am saying and vice versa. I will cease this discussion right here.

Malang
 
I am still not able to understand? Where did I go against any religion? even if I did so what??
Actually it is you who is wrongly portraying the Holy Quran.



As I said before I am a sufi, my mother's family is Muslim but I donot call myself Muslim nor do I reject the holy Quran a the same time I donot follow all aspects of it. My parents are atheist but as one gets older I think one develops faith.





I find myself quite incompetent to tow my own boat where scholars also have difficulty.. as I said I do not reject the Holy Quran but only interpretations.
I follow Sufism which basically means devotion to God without any dogmas or discrimination. I am not a fanatic by the way.



I don't seem to understand, you are justifying violence against a person who loves some one else and wants to seek solace in one's partner.. I don't think this is written in the Holy Quran...
Personally I would let one marry for love rather than seek a person from my religion or otherwise.



well as far as Atheists are concerned they feel themselves to be pragmatic.



Isms also includes Islam and atheism

PS: I think you are not able to understand what I am saying and vice versa. I will cease this discussion right here.

Malang



I ceased before you replied....... And just as you put an ending note.. In my opinion Atheist are no ISMs .... its not a belief.... So why ism...

Peace..
 
Marriage and Conversion

By Anthea Davis

Allah guides people to Islam in various ways. Some people, like Yvonne Ridley, begin in ardent opposition of Islam and then come to see things in a different way.
Others, such as Maurice Bucaille, spend years of their lives studying in a certain field only to find that their hard-earned scientific facts were already mentioned in the Qur'an more than a thousand years ago.

Then again, some other people discover Islam through the course of their lives. Perhaps they go somewhere, meet someone, or come across a book. And still there are others who fall in love, marry a Muslim, and through the process of time discover Islam. All the possible ways of finding Islam are indications of the mercy of Allah and of how He guides those who wish to be guided.

Perhaps more women than men find Islam through marriage because a Muslim woman is not permitted to marry a non-Muslim man, while a Muslim man is allowed to marry a Christian or Jewish woman.

When any two people marry, they will inevitably get to know and appreciate each other's culture and beliefs. When a non-Muslim woman marries a Muslim, he is either practicing Islam or not.

If the man is practicing Islam, he will be kind, considerate, and tolerant with her. He will allow her to practice her religion (Christianity or Judaism) and at the same time, he will be a good example to her of Islam. She will see him fast in Ramadan and at times during the year and notice how he disciplines himself and tries to be a better person by praying more, reading more Qur'an, and giving in charity.

Through the course of their daily lives, she will see him pray five times a day and organize his work schedule and daily plan around this. She is unlikely to ever see him flirt with women, drink alcohol, gamble, use coarse language, or lie and cheat. If he makes a mistake, she will see him repent and seek forgiveness of the person he hurt as well as the forgiveness of Allah.

She will see in him his great love and fear of Allah as well as his love and admiration of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). She will also see his love and admiration for all the prophets of Allah including the one she, as a Christian or a Jew, is following, that is, Jesus or Moses (peace be upon them). In such a situation, many women may feel attracted to the values and principles of Islam. Even if they do not accept it as their religion, they raise no objection to their children being raised to be like their father, her husband.

At the same time, there are many women who have accepted Islam at the hands of their husbands. Islam brought them closer together. What a gift from Allah that a person would be guided by the one they love!


Many women have found Islam in spite of their non-practicing husbands.
Unfortunately, there are many cases of men who are Muslim in name only, and their practical lives and behavior do not reflect the great values and principles of Islam. Such people may meet a woman, fall in love, and marry. Most Muslims who do not practice Islam will never deny the truth of its message. For example, even if the man is immoral, drinks alcohol, gambles, cheats, lies, deals in drugs, or does whatever else, it is unlikely that he will ever say Allah has a partner or that Muhammad is anything except the final prophet of Allah. This represents the bare minimum of his faith. And few overstep this line. What does this mean? It means that a woman will marry such a man and be under the assumption that both of them are just going to do whatever comes naturally, whatever they want to do and however they want to live. Another problem is that the woman may believe that what she is witnessing is Islam.
However, when children come along, sometimes a non-practicing Muslim man will have his conscience stirred and will want his children raised as Muslims. He may begin to practice Islam and try to reform his life. Often the woman caught up in such a situation will wonder what on earth is going on and feel that her rights are being invaded because now he calls into play Islamic values and principles that up until a short time ago were not important at all. It may appear to her as some kind of hypocrisy on his part and she will resist. This is where some women may try to escape with their children and the Muslim man tries to take them back and very difficult situations occur. It happens like this because the marriage was not built on Islam from the very beginning and things were not made clear.

At the same time, many women have found Islam in spite of their non-practicing husbands. Many women read a lot and go to knowledgeable people in an attempt to understand more about their husband's culture or religion, hoping that this will help their relationship to be stronger and more fruitful. While on this path, many women come to see the practical and beautiful teachings of Islam, and convert. Most men in such a situation are very pleased that this happens, and in the cases of the people I met, it was the woman who brought her husband back to the path of Islam.

Marriage in Islam is sacred, and to ensure that it has every chance to work properly, it should be based on the principles of Islam: submission to Allah and obedience to Him and His Prophet, mercy, justice, equity, kindness, tolerance, and selflessness.

Marriage and Conversion - Reading Islam.com
 
In Islam there is a compulsion for women not to marry non muslim before they convert to Islam but for men it is allowed to marry non muslim women (christian or jew)... Islam is not about what people think, it is about what you have been told and then Obey...

Sir, do you also believe equality of men and women? Also is there any way modern Islamic scholars can modify some rules according to the time? Either ban for both or allow women too.

As for as my knowledge if girl is 18 and boy is 21 and both are ready for marriage, Indian law allow them for marriage and no personal law can come in between.

Medically this is good too. A hybrid child will have more positive traits hence better for society. It can bring harmony, eliminate many wrong traditions like dowry from society. Else I have seen people are getting married in close relations and children are below average intelligence.

Waise bhi, let the people live their own life why to interfere?

Cheers.
 
Munda, marrying a close relation does not produce below average IQ, unless IQ is inherited, and is genuinely a measure of intelligence. If it is, then both the related parents (I assume a single low IQ one, and a high IQ partner), would not necessarily produce low IQ. Complicated indeed. A very below average IQ statement of yours. Are you descended from closely related ancestors?
 
As I said before I am a sufi, my mother's family is Muslim but I donot call myself Muslim nor do I reject the holy Quran a the same time I donot follow all aspects of it. My parents are atheist but as one gets older I think one develops faith.

I find myself quite incompetent to tow my own boat where scholars also have difficulty.. as I said I do not reject the Holy Quran but only interpretations.
I follow Sufism which basically means devotion to God without any dogmas or discrimination. I am not a fanatic by the way.

This is the reason why a Muslim Woman can’t marry a Non-Muslim man. Since you don’t have faith on single religion hence you are distracted.

The marriage of non-Muslim man to a Muslim woman is an invalid marriage. Allah says in the Quran:

“And give not (Muslim women) in marriage to idolaters until they believe" [al-Baqara 221]

Therefore, it is not allowed for disbeliever to marry a Muslim woman. Allah also says,

“They (Muslim women) are not lawful for them (the disbelivers) nor are they (the disbeliever) lawful for them "[al-Mumtahana 10]
 
Munda, marrying a close relation does not produce below average IQ, unless IQ is inherited, and is genuinely a measure of intelligence. If it is, then both the related parents (I assume a single low IQ one, and a high IQ partner), would not necessarily produce low IQ. Complicated indeed. A very below average IQ statement of yours. Are you descended from closely related ancestors?

Don't do this!


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
Sir, do you also believe equality of men and women? Also is there any way modern Islamic scholars can modify some rules according to the time? Either ban for both or allow women too.

As for as my knowledge if girl is 18 and boy is 21 and both are ready for marriage, Indian law allow them for marriage and no personal law can come in between.

Medically this is good too. A hybrid child will have more positive traits hence better for society. It can bring harmony, eliminate many wrong traditions like dowry from society. Else I have seen people are getting married in close relations and children are below average intelligence.

Waise bhi, let the people live their own life why to interfere?

Cheers.

I am touchy about Interfaith Marriages!

Since i married a Christian Woman (she accepted Islam before marrying and now learns Islam for indeepth Knowledge and better understanding) and i know about the Islamic Teachings on InterFaith Marriages!
 

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