Interesting

[syedali73]

You call yourself a Sayyid and write such nonsense. Since when are headscarfs an Arab thing? You do realize that before Islam emerged Arab women were Christian, Jewish, Pagan (believing in ancient Semitic religions) and Hanifs. There were Arab queens and rulers too. Ever heard about Queen of Sheba? Probably the oldest attested queen in history.

Headscarfs have been worn across the world and just because headscarfs have first been described in what is the Arab world (Iraq precisely and like many other things here in life) thousands of years ago it does not make it "Arab". You think that women of today's Pakistan did not wear any kind of headscarfs 2000 years ago? Despite having a similar climate to the ME, abundant sunshine etc. Did women walk around naked or what? That's not my impression.

If headscarfs are "Arab culture" then I wonder my Miriam (ra) or Mother Mary as the Christians call here have always been pictured with a scarf in Christianity.

I may have Arabic ancestry but I am a Pakistani and I would like to live and die as a Pakistani. I am not against the Scarves or covering heads. I am aware that these are the laws of Allah and I have to follow them. However, as much I have understood Islam, I made mention of it, middle-of-the-road path, no extremes, and that is for the matters where Quran and Haidth is largely silent or instructions are vague. This does not include clearly spelled out laws such as prohibition for consuming pork/alcohol, abstaining from committing adultery etc.

Please do not get me wrong. I am neither against Arabic culture nor Islam but I do see Islam and Arabic culture as two different entities.

 

[al-Hasani]

OMG, FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

Not fight. Just a strange and unfounded claim. I have seen such claims many times. This and that being Arab while many other peoples practiced it. Headscarf are nothing but a garment. Something that has been worn regardless of religion, geographical area, culture etc. for millenniums. It had a prevalence in the ME and among us Semites, I give you that, but it was also present in many other places.

I bet that nobody here can define Arab culture as they don't know Arab culture well enough or just equal it with Islam. Arab culture and Islam are closely tied but Arabs/Semites had millennium old Pre-Islamic civilizations renowned today across the world today due to their splendor etc. From ancient Arabia (Yemen, Eastern Arabia), Mesopotamia, Levant, Egypt etc.
Not everything that happened before Prophet Muhamamad (saws) appeared was bad. What went on among SOME circles in Madinah 1450-1400 years ago did not happen even remotely close everywhere on the Arabian Peninsula let alone the entire Arab world. It was mainly the Quraysh. Some of them were even Hanifs (monotheists).

Hanif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I may have Arabic ancestry but I am a Pakistani and I would like to live and die as a Pakistani. I am not against the Scarves or covering heads. I am aware that these are the laws of Allah and I have to follow them. However, as much I have understood Islam, I made mention of it, middle-of-the-road path, no extremes, and that is for the matters where Quran and Haidth is largely silent or instructions are vague. This does not include clearly spelled out laws such as prohibition for consuming pork/alcohol, abstaining from committing adultery etc.

Please do not get me wrong. I am neither against Arabic culture nor Islam but I do see Islam and Arabic culture as two different entities.

Eh, we all do. Just like every pre-Islamic history is not Islam. Regardless of where. Your comment was just strange and not correct historically. All people committed great sins all over the world before Islam. It just happened that Prophet Muhammad (saws) was revealed to the people of Makkah and Hijaz. Had he been revealed in Pakistan he would have addressed the same ills.

So a hijab, abaya and a niqab have now turned into "extremes". What's next?

 

[Dubious]

From what I know about ancient civilizations (regardless where almost) women of rank took pride in modesty and dressed accordingly. You can even see that historically in the Christian world too.

Yes even today to a "ball party" modesty means gowns ...though its a different story some cant resist having long slits to show off their body but the gowns to show class is inevitable!

It just happened that Prophet Muhammad (saws) was revealed to the people of Makkah and Hijaz. Had he been revealed in Pakistan he would have addressed the same ills.

He was revealed to Arabia for a reason...the practices there were apparently far disturbing than necessary! A warner/ prophet/ msgr comes when the people have gone very far from the true path!

There is prob even a hadith that had the Prophet come from a different race....Arabs being proud might not have accepted him....

So a hijab, abaya and a niqab have now turned into "extremes". What's next?

However, as much I have understood Islam, I made mention of it, middle-of-the-road path, no extremes, and that is for the matters where Quran and Haidth is largely silent or instructions are vague. This does not include clearly spelled out laws such as prohibition for consuming pork/alcohol, abstaining from committing adultery etc.

Firstly, Quran and Hadith are not silent about the issue of hijab....the criteria are clearly stated....and in Quran it comes as a law TELL THE BELIEVING WOMEN ...

@syedali73 maybe if you give @al-Hasani some examples of extremism and some examples of middle of the road.....it will clear the confusion...

 

[al-Hasani]

Yes even today to a "ball party" modesty means gowns ...though its a different story some cant resist having long slits to show off their body but the gowns to show class is inevitable!


He was revealed to Arabia for a reason...the practices there were apparently far disturbing than necessary! A warner/ prophet/ msgr comes when the people have gone very far from the true path!

There have been thousands of Prophets sent by Allah (swt) to all of mankind and all peoples. We know from history that people elsewhere committed even greater crimes or similar crimes. From cannibalism to untold savagery. Monotheism for instance was completely foreign in most the world while it had a strong presence in the Arab world and Arabia back then as this is the original homeland of the Abrahamic religions. Similar sins were committed everywhere. Also Makkah, Madinah and that area of Hijaz did not represent the entire Arabian Peninsula or Arabs. At that same time period you had Christian Arab and Arab Jewish Kingdoms.

I am just saying that people should have no illusions about there not being any sins or similar sins everywhere else during that time. All people are sinners by default.

Similar to claiming that a headscarf an exclusively "Arab thing" despite that not being correct is also silly. Or calling Islam an Arab religion.

 

[45'22']

yes HE has...and HE has defined this modesty as well....where his prophet showed and explained it in details....

everything should be covered except the face and hands....

the quran states 6 criteria...I used to run a webpage with details from quran and hadith...did it for some computer course in my bsc....but since it was a free website domain it shut down after the trial lolz....

1. Extent:
The first criterion is the extent of the body that should be covered. This is different for men and women. The extent of covering obligatory on the male is to cover the body at least from the navel to the knees. For women, the extent of covering obligatory is to cover the complete body except the face and the hands upto the wrist. If they wish to, they can cover even these parts of the body. Some scholars of Islam insist that the face and the hands are part of the obligatory extent of ‘hijab’.

All the remaining five criteria are the same for men and women.

2. The clothes worn should be loose and should not reveal the figure.

3. The clothes worn should not be transparent such that one can see through them.

4. The clothes worn should not be so glamorous as to attract the opposite sex.

5. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the opposite sex.

6. The clothes worn should not resemble that of the unbelievers i.e. they should not wear clothes that are specifically identities or symbols of the unbelievers’ religions.

These are the criteria...

BUT who follows or not is their choice...ALLAH can only tell you what is good for you rest is your choice of what you want...

If men are allowed to do d above mentioned points and women r barred from doing so then I say there is no God.....
bcuz if there is a god then he/she shouldn't discriminate and if he/she is discriminating then he/she is not a God....


Do anything that u feel is correct .....don't do anything that up think is on d book......

You won't like anyone to judge you by ur clothes right...

And burqa should be banned

 

[Jf Thunder]

That is the problem of your friend then isnt it? Or are you equally weak and will equally misunderstand that you refrained?
Coz so far I have not found anything crazy in his lectures esp those dealing with Quranic language + guidance for parents + marriage and the rights of each individual.....I am not sure about his lectures about other stuff...

i have very strange friends, but i mostly listen to Dr Zakir Naik

 

[Dubious]

All people are sinners by default.

Not really...All babies born are pure it is their choices that makes them sinners....We dont have that original sin as in Christianity!

 

[Jf Thunder]

Yes even today to a "ball party" modesty means gowns ...though its a different story some cant resist having long slits to show off their body but the gowns to show class is inevitable!

well gowns wouldnt be immodest if they dont have slits?
you can make even the most modest of clothes immodest if you want
but then again every piece of garment is not immodest, even full length skirts are not, they can be worn by Muslims i think

 

[Dubious]

If men are allowed to do d above mentioned points and women r barred from doing so then I say there is no God.....
bcuz if there is a god then he/she shouldn't discriminate and if he/she is discriminating then he/she is not a God....

Can men get pregnant? No right...

Do men cry over broken nails? No right...

So how can men and women be similar when by default they are different?

Do anything that u feel is correct .....don't do anything that up think is on d book......
You won't like anyone to judge you by ur clothes right...
And burqa should be banned

Well you are most welcome to do what you like...

Look we are not talking about normal people we are talking about people who took an oath when they enter Islam....NO GOD BUT ALLAH....when you reject everything else and put ALLAH above all why are you not obeying his rules? - Just saying...its like when you enter a country you have rules...visa being first if you dont obey the rules then dont question why you are in jail!

 

[al-Hasani]

Not really...All babies born are pure it is their choices that makes them sinners....We dont have that original sin as in Christianity!

I obviously meant grown-ups here. Unborn children, babies etc. are obviously not sinners. How can they be? But in general we people are sinners. Always were and always will be. Regardless of age, origin, social class, skin color, appearance etc. We are prone to some of the most sadistic behavior known on this planet and in many instances we are very, very evil beings. Much more than animals despite their more "primitive" instincts. Our history is basically interconnected with sins.

 

[Dubious]

i have very strange friends, but i mostly listen to Dr Zakir Naik

No harm done...I advice you to listen to more than 5 people and then compare and choose and think yourself which you feel is stating the best....mix and match if you please coz each will have backed his statements based on quran and hadith ...try to even read those verses to make sure no one is cheating you....It is a little homework you should do....

well gowns wouldnt be immodest if they dont have slits?
you can make even the most modest of clothes immodest if you want
but then again every piece of garment is not immodest, even full length skirts are not, they can be worn by Muslims i think

Yes but if it is tightly wrapped around you or if you had to hold your breathe to get in...i dont think the only problem is it is immodest but it is damn uncomfortable!

 

[syedali73]

Eh, we all do. Just like every pre-Islamic history is not Islam. Regardless of where. Your comment was just strange and not correct historically. All people committed great sins all over the world before Islam. It just happened that Prophet Muhammad (saws) was revealed to the people of Makkah and Hijaz. Had he been revealed in Pakistan he would have addressed the same ills.

So a hijab, abaya and a niqab have now turned into "extremes". What's next?

Why so confrontational tone? In my opinion (anyone has all the right to disagree with it), covering head is enough and there is no need to cover the face. Look, I am a normal male (have two kids as a further proof) and once I was young too with lots of testosterone running in my blood. I don't remember I ever found girls/women more attractive than the ones who used to cover their heads or faces. As long as one has covered herself modestly as per cultural norms it is just fine. I tell you one more thing my friend, no amount of covering is going to save one if Iblees has gone up into someones head. Covering or no covering becomes totally irrelevant at that point of time. There are people who get involved in zoophilia isn't it?

 

[Dubious]

I obviously meant grown-ups here. Unborn children, babies etc. are obviously not sinners. How can they be? But in general we people are sinners. Always were and always will be. Regardless of age, origin, social class, skin color, appearance etc. We are prone to some of the most sadistic behavior known on this planet and in many instances we are very, very evil beings. Much more than animals despite their more "primitive" instincts. Our history is basically interconnected with sins.

Yes and no...

Those who seek forgiveness from their lord are always in a state of observing their actions .....for they wish not to go back into the category of sinning after asking for forgiveness...

But as a general rule yes!

 

[qamar1990]

What if there was no God and all we're actually doing is wasting our lives trying to please an imaginary construction in our heads?

lol….. its a win win 4 us muslims weather there is a god or not.

 

[al-Hasani]

Why so confrontational tone? In my opinion (anyone has all the right to disagree with it), covering head is enough and there is no need to cover the face. Look, I am a normal male (have two kids as a further proof) and once I was young too with lots of testosterone running in my blood. I don't remember I ever found girls/women more attractive than the ones who used to cover their heads or faces. As long as one has covered herself modestly as per cultural norms it is just fine. I tell you one more thing my friend, no amount of covering is going to save one if Iblees has gone up into someones head. Covering or no covering becomes totally irrelevant at that point of time. There are people who get involved in zoophilia isn't it?

I just don't understand how something as innocent as a headscarf can bother you?! Maybe 1% of all Muslim women wear a headscarf that covers everything. As in literary everything. I am not a fan of that personally and consider it too much but I respect those who chose it. Why should I not? Who I am to those women that chose that? Their brother, son, father?

I am against those superficial persons who have long shinny beards, speak beautiful words but due all the wrongdoings when the camera is off. We all are. Yet we are all hypocritical and sinners as well.

My point is just that there is no need for Muslims to condemn or ridicule our Muslim sisters who have chosen a certain garment to wear.

I myself do not go to extremes with religion or at least I try to and I have many faults too. So I won't be the judge here.

Yes and no...

Those who seek forgiveness from their lord are always in a state of observing their actions .....for they wish not to go back into the category of sinning after asking for forgiveness...

But as a general rule yes!

Yes of course but when I meant sinful is when we do a sinful act which all of us do. This is a normal thing. What is important is trying to limit that, ask for forgiveness and improve. More we cannot do as people.