Intelligence Bureau Head to be either current or former Army Officer

[Chak Bamu]

This piece from Dunya Newspaper claims that soon Intelligence Bureau Chief will be appointed which could be current serving Army Officer or a former one. Also Punjab Police to go through massive changes from officers getting thrown out to new and hard working officers being given senior and strong positions with full freedom to do the work as they deem best.

@Horus @Oscar @Jango @Arsalan @Path-Finder @balixd @AUz @Areesh

This would be a disastrous decision, if implemented.

I have seen all the replies to this thread so far. The ones who want army to take over IB are not thinking through the consequences of this.

One thing Pakistan massively suffers from is the institutional over-reach of PA and its allied organizations in every sphere - security, economic, social, education, real-estate, infra-structure, politics, media, even education. The list goes on and on. There is hell of a price that is being paid and will continue to be paid at ever-rising rates in the future. This should be considered scary not only for us, but even more so for Pakistan's future generations.

Frankly PA's past performance inspires absolutely no confidence. Kargil memories are still relatively fresh and we must heed its lessons before we think we know what is in the best interest of Pakistan. Handing over the country to PA would necessarily turn Pakistan into Egypt, or even North Korea. Army officers are trained a certain way and we will be fools to think that they can step outside their sphere of responsibility and expertise and make things better. How many tourists does one see on the streets in Pakistan? How many investors trust Pakistan with their money? Does Pakistani economy show any signs of meaningful integration with the larger global economy? Having achieved 5.8% growth rate in last FY, did Pakistan attract any FDI? Does anyone think that it is realistic to compete with India when they have outpaced us in GDP growth, FDI attraction, HDI improvement, institution building, integration with global economy, strategic economic investments, and such like for the past 2 decades at least.

PDF seems to have become very much insulated by attracting a very parochial set of posters that view most everything from a security perspective. This is one of the reasons why I have severely curtailed my posts on this forum. There is too much argument over things that are normally considered beyond debate in most other countries; civilian supremacy being one such issue.

 

[Major Sam]

This would be a disastrous decision, if implemented.

I have seen all the replies to this thread so far. The ones who want army to take over IB are not thinking through the consequences of this.

One thing Pakistan massively suffers from is the institutional over-reach of PA and its allied organizations in every sphere - security, economic, social, education, real-estate, infra-structure, politics, media, even education. The list goes on and on. There is hell of a price that is being paid and will continue to be paid at ever-rising rates in the future. This should be considered scary not only for us, but even more so for Pakistan's future generations.

Frankly PA's past performance inspires absolutely no confidence. Kargil memories are still relatively fresh and we must heed its lessons before we think we know what is in the best interest of Pakistan. Handing over the country to PA would necessarily turn Pakistan into Egypt, or even North Korea. Army officers are trained a certain way and we will be fools to think that they can step outside their sphere of responsibility and expertise and make things better. How many tourists does one see on the streets in Pakistan? How many investors trust Pakistan with their money? Does Pakistani economy show any signs of meaningful integration with the larger global economy? Having achieved 5.8% growth rate in last FY, did Pakistan attract any FDI? Does anyone think that it is realistic to compete with India when they have outpaced us in GDP growth, FDI attraction, HDI improvement, institution building, integration with global economy, strategic economic investments, and such like for the past 2 decades at least.

PDF seems to have become very much insulated by attracting a very parochial set of posters that view most everything from a security perspective. This is one of the reasons why I have severely curtailed my posts on this forum. There is too much argument over things that are normally considered beyond debate in most other countries; civilian supremacy being one such issue.

So true. Thats what i say. Jab army ki hakumat they didnt do anything but to make army happy we provide them with postings in civillians domains with result is infront of us. IB had chief from army, PIA had it and many other loss making entities and we are still stuck on same phase. Its like a business retired army men worth is way more than a civic with many fold experience.

We need to differentiate between civic and Army domain and stick to that.

 

[Zhukov]

So instead of Empowering Civilian Intelligence Agencies we are putting them under Army influence as well?
Not good at all. We need to Reform our intelligence apparatus on the most Formidable Intelligence agencies in the world like CIA of US, SIS of UK.
Civilian specifically Hired in the apparatus and Run by those same civilians empowered officially directly answerable to the Government.
ISI is already enough being Army Influenced Agency.
IB should be like FBI

 

[ALi Rizwan]

So instead of Empowering Civilian Intelligence Agencies we are putting them under Army influence as well?
Not good at all. We need to Reform our intelligence apparatus on the most Formidable Intelligence agencies in the world like CIA of US, SIS of UK.
Civilian specifically Hired in the apparatus and Run by those same civilians empowered officially directly answerable to the Government.
ISI is already enough being Army Influenced Agency.
IB should be like FBI

Present system is not only waste of resources (Man Power & Money) but also less effective(Same Task, Multiple Agencies, Zero Coordination) & giving Govt. all power to use IB for its Political Gain.

Only Solution for this is restructuring & merging both agencies.

Why you need IB to perform FIA Job?

 

[Zarvan]

This would be a disastrous decision, if implemented.

I have seen all the replies to this thread so far. The ones who want army to take over IB are not thinking through the consequences of this.

One thing Pakistan massively suffers from is the institutional over-reach of PA and its allied organizations in every sphere - security, economic, social, education, real-estate, infra-structure, politics, media, even education. The list goes on and on. There is hell of a price that is being paid and will continue to be paid at ever-rising rates in the future. This should be considered scary not only for us, but even more so for Pakistan's future generations.

Frankly PA's past performance inspires absolutely no confidence. Kargil memories are still relatively fresh and we must heed its lessons before we think we know what is in the best interest of Pakistan. Handing over the country to PA would necessarily turn Pakistan into Egypt, or even North Korea. Army officers are trained a certain way and we will be fools to think that they can step outside their sphere of responsibility and expertise and make things better. How many tourists does one see on the streets in Pakistan? How many investors trust Pakistan with their money? Does Pakistani economy show any signs of meaningful integration with the larger global economy? Having achieved 5.8% growth rate in last FY, did Pakistan attract any FDI? Does anyone think that it is realistic to compete with India when they have outpaced us in GDP growth, FDI attraction, HDI improvement, institution building, integration with global economy, strategic economic investments, and such like for the past 2 decades at least.

PDF seems to have become very much insulated by attracting a very parochial set of posters that view most everything from a security perspective. This is one of the reasons why I have severely curtailed my posts on this forum. There is too much argument over things that are normally considered beyond debate in most other countries; civilian supremacy being one such issue.

It should be Police. I really suggest former IG of KPK Salahuddin should be appointed as CM KPK

 

[Cornered Tiger]

It is not mentioned any where in the source, that is getting transferred to army or so. IB might have a head from Army, does not imply Army will control it. It will still come under Ministry of Interior Affairs. Army can bring some policy reforms, moreover a Retd. Army man will be the best choice, mind that he will be considered a civilian by law

 

[BetterPakistan]

that is one change I 100% agree with. Better to Bring someone who knows how intelligence works rather than some merasi mian liked who spies on his opponents instead of solving issues.

Should be a retired ISI chief or any military officer who had worked as chief of ISI

 

[Path-Finder]

Should be a retired ISI chief or any military officer who had worked as chief of ISI

Gen Shuja Pasha?? this name will most like mositen khaja Iqama's patloon

 

[BetterPakistan]

Gen Shuja Pasha?? this name will most like mositen khaja Iqama's patloon

Don't you consider Gen Pasha a good option?

 

[Sheepistanis]

There are things which happen exclusively in Pakistan and nowhere else. To believe that only military men are the most professional and deserve to lead all instituions in this country is one of such sheepistani fallacies. All those people who spend decades working for those organisations deserve a take at the higher offices more than anyone else. The OP wreaks of Musharaff era syndrome when even the PCB chairman was a serving general.

 

[Major Sam]

It is not mentioned any where in the source, that is getting transferred to army or so. IB might have a head from Army, does not imply Army will control it. It will still come under Ministry of Interior Affairs. Army can bring some policy reforms, moreover a Retd. Army man will be the best choice, mind that he will be considered a civilian by law

Like we had previously for IB. What reforms they brought? What so special in retired army men which civilians cant do? We had retired army men in almost every department what good they have brought? Would you enlighten us.

 

[Path-Finder]

Don't you consider Gen Pasha a good option?

yea why not!

 

[Cornered Tiger]

Like we had previously for IB. What reforms they brought? What so special in retired army men which civilians cant do? We had retired army men in almost every department what good they have brought? Would you enlighten us.

There are many old stuff in todays new setup. A leader is now on top of all. Let us give him a chance. We should not jump to the conclusion so early. In every reformed society, there was a mixture of new and old.

 

[Major Sam]

There are many old stuff in todays new setup. A leader is now on top of all. Let us give him a chance. We should not jump to the conclusion so early. In every reformed society, there was a mixture of new and old.

And we should not hand our everything to army. Let them.do their work and let us do our work.

 

[SQ8]

Army intelligence is no better than civilian intelligence. Intelligence gathering is a specialized skill which is different for each scenario.
There is a reason why CIA and FBI are different and have different approaches to monitoring.
Being from the military has no leverage or impact on intelligence- both stated and implied.