INS Vishal (65,000 Ton Displacement) with CATOBAR Under Development

[anant_s]

Developing an N-FGFA that could be used with catapults would mean a complete new development of the structural parts and since Russia might not go for it, it would be way too costly too.

Since the time of cold-war Russians have been more than happy with its fleet of long-range bombers and destroyers on sea and for some strategic reason haven't put the same faith in CBGs as US did.
Under the changed circumstances it would be interesting to see what Russian Doctrine is, in first part of this century w.r.t Naval power projection and if they launch more ACs. That IMHO might decide the fate of N FGFA.

As far as Indian Ocean Region is concerned, I believe in long term both Chinese and Indian Navies will define their areas of interest and hence irrespective of what media says, there is little or no chance of IN or PLAAN confronting realistically. & that begs a question, do we really need to put our resources on a costly Gen V naval fighter when there is nothing to challenge even Mig 29K.
Perhaps when AC fleet grows to 3-4 & the navy becomes a true blue water navy, it could be the time for navy to graduate to deck based VLO fighters.

 

[sancho]

Since the time of cold-war Russians have been more than happy with its fleet of long-range bombers and destroyers on sea and for some strategic reason haven't put the same faith in CBGs as US did.
Under the changed circumstances it would be interesting to see what Russian Doctrine is, in first part of this century w.r.t Naval power projection and if they launch more ACs. That IMHO might decide the fate of N FGFA.

The Russians aimed on arming the carrier itself with a lot of firepower, instead on just depending on support vessels. That's something that no other coutry does and where joint carrier developments might hit problems. Their plans aims on up to 6 new carriers with Mig 29Ks as a stop gap, while N-Pak Fa and drones should be the long term solution. Realistically however they lack the funds to develop all this alone, which is why they proposing partnerships to us. However, 1 or 2 carriers with Mig 29K / N-Pak Fa combos are realistic for their future too.

As far as Indian Ocean Region is concerned, I believe in long term both Chinese and Indian Navies will define their areas of interest and hence irrespective of what media says, there is little or no chance of IN or PLAAN confronting realistically. & that begs a question, do we really need to put our resources on a costly Gen V naval fighter when there is nothing to challenge even Mig 29K.
Perhaps when AC fleet grows to 3-4 & the navy becomes a true blue water navy, it could be the time for navy to graduate to deck based VLO fighters.

PLANs main aim will be defending their own backyard and not conquering the Indian Ocean, but there is no might if you don't have secure oil supply and that's why they have to project power sooner or later. Especially when our relations to the US are getting deeper! Military has to prepare for the worst case, which for them means fighting USN in East Asia, while protecting oil supply not being blocked by IN or Australian navy.
Similarly, no matter if we support the US or not, any real border issue with China would create a scenario where PLAN has to send a carrier group to show power and we have to have an answer to that, which can't be N-LCAs. A carrier simply has limitations wrt to numbers of aircraft that can be carriered and how they can be supported, unlike areas where shore based assets are available. That's why high capability fighters is most important for the capability of the carrier itself. We actually will have a pretty decent CGB, with more than enough firepower and there are a lot of navies around the world that looks at our vessels with good respect, but nobody will fear our SSK fleet at the moment, nor a carrier with basic (Mig 29K) or even poor (N-LCA, Ka 31) performance in limited numbers. That's where at least some Rafales and Sea King AEWs would had made a bigger operational difference, but if we aim on operating these carrier for 30 years or more, 5th gen fighters are a necessity!

 

[Dash]

Looks like a modified Charles de Gaulle AC design .

French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle (R91) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes I got that from Sancho..my initial perception was something else...Thats not a bad design and best for a Rafale combo too..

You can see that design here I was talking about..The image shows the deck layout of Thales conventional take-off and landing (CTOL) design. - Image - Naval Technology

 

[sancho]

Looks like a modified Charles de Gaulle AC design .

French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle (R91) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Since the CdG was also designed by DCNS, the similarity should be obvious, it's mainly th different location of the island and the overall bigger size that makes the difference. The Thales design, based on the QE 2 carrier is far more different.

 

[kurup]

Since the CdG was also designed by DCNS, the similarity should be obvious, it's mainly th different location of the island and the overall bigger size that makes the difference. The Thales design, based on the QE 2 carrier is far more different.

PA2 DCNS design looks promising and much suited for the IAC2 .

What is the advantage of a double island in AC ??

 

[HariPrasad]

The only protection it will have against incoming aircraft till 2017 (as per estimates) will be electronic systems. Hence, one of the more interesting demonstrations conducted this year was of the ASOR Russian electronic warfare system fitted on the carrier. Those who participated said the ship's sensors picked up incoming aircraft at a distance of 350 km and, in some cases, even 400 km.

During trials, the ship's electronic warfare systems defeated all incoming aircraft by blinding them with directed energy. "Not a single aircraft managed to detect the ship when systems were in use. The only way they could find the ship was when it got into visible range," said Igor Leonav, Chief Commissioner of Sevmash.

Several aircraft, including Su 33 fighters, MiG 29 Ks, IL 38s and Kamov choppers, were used to test the electronic warfare systems. But this is the only defence against air attacks, other than the last stage Pk2m chaff/flare launchers used as decoys when incoming missiles home in.


INS Vikramaditya has might but little protection against air attacks - Indian Express

Hi Guys,

More I read about vikky, More I fell in love with that. Vikky is an awesome AC, we could not have asked any thing batter. Put S 500 on Vikkey and it will horrifically deadly. We can put KALI on Vikky and it will become Yamraj.

 

[HariPrasad]

Aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (also Gorshkov), the Indian Navy's last vessel to be delivered by a foreign shipyard, passed with flying colours when it was operated at full throttle during exhaustive sea trials in the Barents Sea in Russia on Saturday.

The trial feedback helped overcome anxiety in New Delhi about the performance of the ship, which faltered during high-speed runs last year when its boilers failed, leaving the engines unable to produce adequate power to propel the 45,000-ton vessel.

It was a major setback as the delivery of the ship, India's second aircraft carrier, was pushed by a year.

INS Vikramaditya is the only naval warship in a foreign shipyard

After extensive repairs, the ship was back in the sea earlier this month for final delivery trials.

Navy personnel are onboard the vessel, keeping a hawk eye on the performance of the carrier which is going to be the flagship of its fleet in the coming decades.

Sources said the carrier touched a top speed of around 32 knots in wind and tide condition and the trials will continue to test capability of the retrofitted ship that will cost India around $2.3 billion.

The high-speed trials will continue for some more days to ensure that performance is stable. It will be followed by trial landings by the Mig-29K fighters.

The deck landings and take-offs were performed by the Russian pilots last year as well.

The navy hopes that its floating airbase will be ready for commissioning by the end of this year and its formal induction will take place in the early months of 2014.

INS Vikramaditya is now the only naval warship in a foreign shipyard.

All the remaining 41 warships are being constructed in domestic shipyards, in a major boost to the local shipbuilding industry.


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[shuntmaster]

How many LM2500 gas turbines will be required to propel INS Vishal?

The General Electric LM2500 is an industrial and marine gas turbine produced by GE Aviation. The LM2500 is a derivative of theGeneral Electric CF6 aircraft engine.

The LM2500 is available in 3 different versions:
The latest, 4th generation, LM2500+G4 version was introduced in November 2005 and delivers 47,370 shp (35,320 kW) with a thermal efficiency of 39.3 percent at ISO conditions

IAC-1, INS Vikrant will use 4×General Electric LM2500 Gas Turbines.

What is the optimal tonnage for conventional propulsion, after which we need to go for nuclear propulsion?

 

[sancho]

PA2 DCNS design looks promising and much suited for the IAC2 .

What is the advantage of a double island in AC ??

One for operating the carrier, the other for flight operations.

 

[IND151]

This is a news clipping from today's i. 6-12-13 Indian Express news

Indian Navy to freeze design of ” INS Vishal ” Soon, Considering Nuclear Power option | idrw.org

 

[IND151]

NEW DELHI: Nothing projects raw power like an aircraft carrier prowling on the high seas, capable of unleashing strike fighters against an adversary in a jiffy. A nuclear-powered carrier can make the punch even deadlier with much longer operational endurance.

With its first indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) set to be "launched" at Cochin Shipyard on August 12, and sea trials of the first nuclear submarine INS Arihantto begin shortly after, India is now examining the possibility of having a nuclear-powered 65,000-tonne carrier in the future.

Navy vice-chief Vice Admiral RK Dhowan on Thursday said a "detailed study" was underway on the "size, type of aircraft and their launch and recovery systems, propulsion" and the like for the IAC-II project. "Yes, we are also considering nuclear propulsion. All options are being studied. No final decision has been taken," he said.

There are huge cost issues with nuclear-powered carriers, which can easily take upwards of $10 billion to build. The Royal British Navy is reverting to carriers propelled by gas turbines/diesel-electric systems from nuclear ones.

However, the US has 11 Nimitz-class "super-carriers" — each an over 94,000-tonne behemoth powered by two nuclear reactors and capable of carrying 80-90 fighters - to project power around the globe. China, too, is now looking at nuclear-powered carriers after inducting its first conventional carrier — the 65,000-tonne Liaoning — last September.

So, while Navy may want a nuclear-powered carrier, it will ultimately have to be a considered political decision. The force, however, is firm about its long-term plan to operate three carrier-battle groups (CBGs). "One carrier for each (western and eastern) seaboard and one in maintenance," said Vice Admiral Dhowan.

But, even two CBGs will be possible only by 2019. The 40,000-tonne IAC, to be christened INS Vikrant, will be ready for induction only by December 2018, as was first reported by TOI.

"Design and construction of a carrier has many challenges. Around 75% of the IAC structure has now been erected. India joins only four countries — the US, Russia, the UK and France - capable of building a carrier over 40,000-tonne," he said.

The 44,570-tonne INS Vikramaditya - or the Admiral Gorshkov carrier now undergoing sea trials after a $2.33-billion refit in Russia - in turn will be ready by end-2013 instead of the original August 2008 deadline.

Vice Admiral Dhowan admitted India's solitary carrier, the 28,000-tonne INS Viraat, will soldier on till 2018 due to these long delays. The 54-year-old INS Viraat is left with just 11 Sea Harrier jump-jets to operate from its deck. The 45 MiG-29K naval fighters, being procured from Russia for over $2 billion, can operate only from Vikramaditya and IAC.

The 260-metre-long IAC, whose construction finally began in November 2006, will be able to carry 12 MiG-29Ks, eight Tejas light combat aircraft and 10 early-warning and anti-submarine helicopters [as I expected] on its 2.5-acre flight deck and hangars. It will have a crew of 160 officers and 1,400 sailors. Powered by four American LM2500 gas turbines, the IAC will have an endurance of around 7,500 nautical miles at a speed of 18 knots.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-08-01/india/40961197_1_cbgs-iac-ii-aircraft-carrier&ei=p3WhUs3IBIv7rAeA8oGYAw&usg=AFQjCNHmHtzVaAZaME-LmKIZsRB-KAoWRA&bvm=bv.57752919,d.bmk

 

[IND151]

India starts work on second indigenous aircraft carrier