Innocent Kurd with Lemon Accused of Supporting Terror

[Shahin Vatani]

Good luck with that, i'm serious.

And you are right about Turkey's direction. But still, no matter what we do we can not be as backward as Iran. And i like the fact that you are aware of that.

Thanks for the wishes, no need to say you can't get as backward as Iran though. Because when we where not under the sanctions 30 years ago, our economy was 4 times as much as yours. Back then Turks where very poor and deprived, now you have stepped up and we have been put under sanctions. But situations change, and Erdogan is looking to make you a new Islamic state!!!! Not good sign.

 

[TurAr]

What do you guys think about secularism? Is democracy possible in Iran without it?

 

[Shahin Vatani]

What do you guys think about secularism? Is democracy possible in Iran without it?

I am 100% in favour of secularism, thats the main reason for Turkeys success. You guys lucked out that Ataturk was born in your country and banned all the mullahs and religious people.

Now secularism can be brought about by 2 things, first is the Ataturk approach. That is to just outright ban religion (or at least a large part of religious activity). Second is education, the more educated a population becomes, the less religious it becomes (generally). Now in Iran you will usually find the staunchest Islamic republic supporters in the poorer rural areas. In richer areas like northern Tehran the people are much more secular.

In response to your last part, I believe there can be 2 ways to have democracy in Iran. First is from secularism. Second is through progression of the Islamic republic, slowly changing the system from within.

 

[Targon]

At least, was that hard to discuiss in civilizied ways like this ?

 

[TurAr]

I am 100% in favour of secularism, thats the main reason for Turkeys success. You guys lucked out that Ataturk was born in your country and banned all the mullahs and religious people.

Now secularism can be brought about by 2 things, first is the Ataturk approach. That is to just outright ban religion (or at least a large part of religious activity). Second is education, the more educated a population becomes, the less religious it becomes (generally). Now in Iran you will usually find the staunchest Islamic republic supporters in the poorer rural areas. In richer areas like northern Tehran the people are much more secular.

In response to your last part, I believe there can be 2 ways to have democracy in Iran. First is from secularism. Second is through progression of the Islamic republic, slowly changing the system from within.

Wow, that was unexpected.

I think, the quality of education which is provided by an Islamic Republic is suspicious. I don't think it would have an effect on peoples ideas about religion.

That's not just about Iran but the whole world. People living in rural areas tend to be more religious.

And unfortunately, secularism(democracy) in Iran is impossible without a revolution.

 

[Deno]

I am 100% in favour of secularism, thats the main reason for Turkeys success. You guys lucked out that Ataturk was born in your country and banned all the mullahs and religious people.

Now secularism can be brought about by 2 things, first is the Ataturk approach. That is to just outright ban religion (or at least a large part of religious activity). Second is education, the more educated a population becomes, the less religious it becomes (generally). Now in Iran you will usually find the staunchest Islamic republic supporters in the poorer rural areas. In richer areas like northern Tehran the people are much more secular.

In response to your last part, I believe there can be 2 ways to have democracy in Iran. First is from secularism. Second is through progression of the Islamic republic, slowly changing the system from within.

Please do go on.... We would love to have a history lesson from someone who doesn't even know that Iran was ruled by Arabs and Turks nearly 1500 years.

 

[livingdead]

Wow, that was unexpected.

I think, the quality of education which is provided by an Islamic Republic is suspicious. I don't think it would have an effect on peoples ideas about religion.

That's not just about Iran but the whole world. People living in rural areas tend to be more religious.

And unfortunately, secularism(democracy) in Iran is impossible without a revolution.

I think secularism in Iran is more bottom-up (ordinary folks are secular) where as turkey, it is top-down (imposed secularism).
You will of course violently disagree.
Also, turkey's experience shows, secularism does not mean democracy always.

 

[drink_milk]

I think secularism in Iran is more bottom-up (ordinary folks are secular) where as turkey, it is top-down (imposed secularism).
You will of course violently disagree.
Also, turkey's experience shows, secularism does not mean democracy always.

... you are claiming that about iran according to what? the last election result Ahmedinejat 63% , Mir Hüseyin Musavi(an azerbaijani turk) 32%; this is important, because the dynamo of change in iran always starts with azerbaijani turks, however, persians never wants to change. thats why i ask the source of your sentence.

...and i could not understand your sentence about turkey, do you think secularism is the block to democracy?

 

[poseidon]

^^

again with your BS, there is no such things as azeri turk. that your countries invention.
azeris are Iranians and never will be turks.

prove that azeris are Turks. go ahead we are waiting for you to prove it.

 

[mehmeTcc]

I think secularism in Iran is more bottom-up (ordinary folks are secular) where as turkey, it is top-down (imposed secularism).
You will of course violently disagree.
Also, turkey's experience shows, secularism does not mean democracy always.

WTF are you trying to explain? You are living in England, where there is a king and a queen, and critizing Turkish democracy.

Seriously;

 

[poseidon]

WTF are you trying to explain? You are living in England, where there is a king and a queen, and critizing Turkish democracy.

Seriously;

LMAO, britain is 1000x better than your nation. nation like England and france are shitting on your country kid.
our queen does not get involved in politics, she is not a dictator like your fat wahabi allies.

 

[mehmeTcc]

^^

again with your BS, there is no such things as azeri turk. that your countries invention.
azeris are Iranians and never will be turks.

prove that azeris are Turks. go ahead we are waiting for you to prove it.

Cry me a river, even Azeris are identfying themselves Turks.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

... you are claiming that about iran according to what? the last election result Ahmedinejat 63% , Mir Hüseyin Musavi(an azerbaijani turk) 32%; this is important, because the dynamo of change in iran always starts with azerbaijani turks, however, persians never wants to change. thats why i ask the source of your sentence.

...and i could not understand your sentence about turkey, do you think secularism is the block to democracy?

First of all wether the voting in that election was fair or not is heavily disputed.

But since you seem to believe that the election results where fair, then you should know that Mousavi lost heavily in all Azerbaijan areas. Tabriz, Ardebil and all other areas voted heavily in favour for Islamist Ahmadinejad. Where the "Azerbaijani Turk" got most of his votes where Persian areas like Tehran.

Also all the protests for secularism after the election came from Persian areas. There wasn't a peep out of Azerbaijan. Do you know why? Because they are heavily Islamist in that area. I have been to Azeri Iran many times, you will not see more chadors on women anywhere else in Iran.

So please don't troll blind Pan-Turk nonsense in spite of facts.

 

[poseidon]

Cry me a river, even Azeris are identfying themselves Turks.

yeah the azeris in Turkey and one in your dreams say they are azeri yes.

 

[TurAr]

I think secularism in Iran is more bottom-up (ordinary folks are secular) where as turkey, it is top-down (imposed secularism).
You will of course violently disagree.
Also, turkey's experience shows, secularism does not mean democracy always.

First of all, there is no real secularism in Turkey. Especially since the AKP government... You may consider Turkey as semi-secular country. And yes secularism doesn't mean democracy always, but in Muslim countries, without secularism, it is impossible to exercise democracy.

An example why i consider Turkey as semi-secular: There is no room for a "presidency of religious affairs" as part of the government in real secular systems, but there is one in Turkey. And its budget multiplied 6-7 times since the AKP took power in 2002.