Info about Air Defence System to counter mighty US Air Force

[Tang0]

So, I have been playing a little game with myself. I am Iran, the U.S is about pore high explosives down my proverbial throat for what is in my opinion no good reason other than they are ****** godless imperialists.(That's a joke, please don't ban me) What do I do? Defensive measures just don't work with the technology at my disposal, look at Serbia and Iraq (although Iran is better off than both of the countries, its not a whole lot better off). Well the old saying goes that the best defense is a good offense, but how do you stop B-2's coming out of the middle of the U.S? My air force certainly does not have the range for anything like that type of deep strike. The weakness of course, is that the U.S does not expect any type of attack on it's bases. You deploy special forces and/or "Martyrs" through Canada or Mexico deep into the American heartland. As it stands, all of the F-117's and B-2's are based in about 5 locations (Although they move around a great bit when called upon to do so). The air force handles it own security on U.S soil, and your average Airman can't shoot the broad side of a barn. You sneak in in the dead of night and use Sappers or the abovementioned "Specialists" to destroy fuel and munitions centers, and if you are lucky, hit the planes themselves(Although they are kept in hardened hangers). Outlandish you say? Not really, there are 5 million illegal immigrants in the U.S today, and many of them are from places in the subcontinent or central Asia, its not that hard to get in. Once you are in, who cares? Keep the guns out of sight and your just another "Wetback" come to mop floors. This of course requires some type of first strike, which may be out of the picture politically, but it a great way to do serious damage to an "Invincible" enemy. Course, this would unleash a terrible backlash from the U.S population as a whole, and pretty much ensure that Iran gets invaded, but if you are going to be invaded anyway, why not strike first? It worked for the Japanese at Pearl Harbor...Right.....?

 

[MIG_ACE]

First of all it doesn't matter now how the F-117 was shot down over Kosovo. The F-117 had drawbacks which even the americans acknowledged. It was slow and didn't have any a-to-a capability (not even a radar).But even so it was an exceptional aircraft. Out of so many F-117s used over Kosovo only one was shot down.If the serbs actually had the technology for detecting the F-117s why did they shoot down only one?

Anyway the F-117 has already been retired. The B-2 is a much greater threat. It has much greater destructive power than the comparitively puny F117.It has benn used everywhere from Kosovo to Iraq to Afghanistan.Not one has ever been shot down.

Still, the B-2 is slow. The F-22 is not. Consequently it'll be almost impossible to shoot down without losing a handful of your own fighters and missile batteries in return for a single F-22. Its a cost no country in the world can afford. The F-22 may be expensive but we are talking abt the US here.Their military has an almost unlimited supply of money.

Safe to say that if the USAF really wants to destroy you, they will. You can hurt them to some extent but that's abt it.

 

[Tang0]

Replace "USAF" with US electorate and you will be getting closer. There is a limit to how much money and humans the US is willing to expend. Whole individualism and press freedom thing... Anyway, the US had a 7-1 kill ratio in Vietnam, and it still quit. Why? Because the U.S does not like to see its soldiers killed in foreign countries that the "Average American" can't point to on a map of the world. Especially not if the reasons for going to war are morally ambiguous. So, if I am leader of some country (lets call it Berzerkistan) and I want the US off of my case, all I need to do is keep the kill ratio's around 4-1 or so, and make it terribly expensive. This is of course off topic, as stealth aircraft would still have time to destroy my major C&C structures and basically all of my air force before John Q. public decided to call it quits. This would leave me essentially no longer a player in my geopolitical sphere, unless of course I won so much political capital playing the heroic defender of "Muslim Honor" that it did not matter.

Wow, back to Air Defence Systems. There is no technology on the open market that would allow you to defeat U.S stealth technology. I severely doubt there is any technology on the closed market either. You can detect stealth aircraft when they are dropping payloads, or with random direct sightings. The AWACS method is simply not feasible. The USAF will not be soundly defeated in the air so long as it fights in the time and place of it's choosing. These facts will remain salient for at least the next 10 years. That said, it can be defeated if it is surprised, unprepared, and damaged on the ground. Use the generalized principles of asymmetric warfare, and you can lose every battle but win the war. That I think, is my last comment on the subject.

 

[ea4ab]

how sad is the situation, why is it that the enmies of Allah are so advanced and the muslims so backwards relying on so called allies to purchase arms! whats wrong with us can't wwe build them ourselves! muslims need to come back to islam to run it's affairs and not run after the western way of life! look at the history of the muslims when we were technologically superior then our enemies because we were close to islam we should obey Allah when he says' fight them collectively as they fight you collectively,' may death and humiliation be upon musharraf the traitor of islam the slayer of innocent muslims!

 

[Always Neutral]

how sad is the situation, why is it that the enmies of Allah are so advanced and the muslims so backwards relying on so called allies to purchase arms! whats wrong with us can't wwe build them ourselves! muslims need to come back to islam to run it's affairs and not run after the western way of life! look at the history of the muslims when we were technologically superior then our enemies because we were close to islam we should obey Allah when he says' fight them collectively as they fight you collectively,' may death and humiliation be upon musharraf the traitor of islam the slayer of innocent muslims!

Posts like yours make the West happy that Gen M is in-charge of Pakistan even if he is bad for the country in the long run.

Why praise / blame religion for your woes ?

Regards

 

[Awesome]

how sad is the situation, why is it that the enmies of Allah are so advanced and the muslims so backwards relying on so called allies to purchase arms! whats wrong with us can't wwe build them ourselves! muslims need to come back to islam to run it's affairs and not run after the western way of life! look at the history of the muslims when we were technologically superior then our enemies because we were close to islam we should obey Allah when he says' fight them collectively as they fight you collectively,' may death and humiliation be upon musharraf the traitor of islam the slayer of innocent muslims!

As much as I'd dislike what Musharraf is doing right now, I will still support him over some radical president killing ideas of yours. You cannot wish death upon your own President dammit! Even so if you feel the need to do so, don't do it here. This forum shall remain to hold allegiance to the state of Pakistan no matter who is in office as should every patriotic (sane) Pakistani.

 

[ARSENAL6]

may death and humiliation be upon musharraf the traitor of islam the slayer of innocent muslims!

COuld you list the death he cause on Muslim ?


I thought Murrsharraf did a good job to the country Building roads, schools and that
Bridging Muslim and non-musilm together and living in harmony
and having muslim setting an example of peace AS IT SHOULD BE.

I am confuse to your post as Musharraf has done a lot in terms of milatary as a Muslim country like :

cruise missle
finishing and advancing the JF-17 and the biggest one of them all restarted on the space programme.



you tell me which leader would do that
at least he is better than the one who had use tax payers money to built a 1 million pound house in Surrey

 

[ejaz007]

I think we need to develop a code of conduct regarding all Head of State. They represent entire country and not just an individual and while addressing them certain respect should be kept in mind.

Even if one has difference with them these should not be expressed the way have been expressed here.

Any way this is not part of the topic and we should stick to the topic.

 

[ARSENAL6]

US is the only Super power right now in this world. US decides and destroys any country it wants in days from air and send it to the stone age. It seems no country in this world possess the technology to counter thier onslaught firmly and successfully, not even Russia, China, Japan Korea or any other hi-technology country.
Is any body there to explain:
If any country really has this capability?
Where the remaining world lacks to produce these hi-tech Air Defence capabilities?
Are countries like Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Indonesia working towards achieving these capabilities individually or jointly?
And
Finally is Pakistan working on such an important program to develop Air Defence Missiles (SAMs, AAM, Ship based SAMs etc.) and RADARs as it is the key for safety and security of any country in present world against any US aggression?
Is there any technology to counter US Stealth Fighter Jets.

going back to the original topic

Because of /the US arrogance of supremecy it has started to make fatal error by bombing other nations
Of course America can't do it alone and even Keys can tell you
that Air Supremacy can get you far but won't win you the war.
Take example of Iraq and Afganistan the US is still fighting.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi ea4ab,

You need a clarification---there are no enemies of Allah---yes there are enemies of people who call themselves "MUSLIMS".

The F117 that was shot over serbia was spotted and tracked---there were serb spies sitting outside at high vantage point around the italian air base from where the f 117'S were flying out from and calling the information into serbia. As the flight time was very long, these planes had to fly out in the day time----once they got tracked, it was just a mathematical solution of around what time and place the F 117's will be arriving----then at that time you would be looking at any anamolies in your radar screen---which obviously was the F 117.

 

[Tang0]

Correct. However the B-2 does not even produce these "Anomolies" unless it is dumping its payload, and the F-22 has lower maintence costs and is fast and manuverable enough that it would be very difficult to follow up on the minor returns it does produce. That is why the 117 is being retired.

 

[MIG_ACE]

Hi ea4ab,

You need a clarification---there are no enemies of Allah---yes there are enemies of people who call themselves "MUSLIMS".

The F117 that was shot over serbia was spotted and tracked---there were serb spies sitting outside at high vantage point around the italian air base from where the f 117'S were flying out from and calling the information into serbia. As the flight time was very long, these planes had to fly out in the day time----once they got tracked, it was just a mathematical solution of around what time and place the F 117's will be arriving----then at that time you would be looking at any anamolies in your radar screen---which obviously was the F 117.

I'll say it again shooting down one F117 out of so many that flew over serbia does not prove anything. Besides the F117s have been retired. The B-2 has much better stealth technology and the F-22 AND JSF are supersonic in addition to being nearly invisible to radar. Its a whole different ball game. The sheer volume of funds pouring into Defence R&D in the US means that those guys are always two steps ahead of everybody else.

 

[EagleEyes]

I would say long range SAMs, effective air defence systems, followed by aircrafts equipped with BVR and linked with AEWs.

 

[MIG_ACE]

I would say long range SAMs, effective air defence systems, followed by aircrafts equipped with BVR and linked with AEWs.

How would you define "effective" air defence systems. The most important component of an ADS is the radar. If the radar can't friggin detect the F22 how do u track it? How does a BVR equipped aircraft track it if it can't even find it?

A few months ago the russians unveiled some kind of optical detection system pod on the new Mig-35 which they claim can be used to detect aircraft with very low RCS. But ofcourse we can never know if its good unless it is actually tested against the F-22 or B-2 and there's a fat chance of that happening.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Mig - ace,

It is not a matter of shooting one F 117. U S found out that the enemy found a way to neutralize the aircraft---by tracking its flight take off time and approximity of arrival location----they didnot want to take many other chances. F 117 had to take off not too far away from the strike area.

OTOH---B 2 will fly out of mainland U S of A. It stays in the air longer, it cannot be tracked---it is stealth----for that reason it is very effective----plus the amount of destruction it carries in its belly----two different planes----two different characteristics.