Indonesia to increase imports from India amid New Delhi - Malaysia spat

[xyx007]

There's no Ummah Chumma in nations interest. Countries become enemy or friend s purely base on national interest. That is why Allah created Pakistan very differently among all Ummah and we are different nations than other Muslims nations. We are poor nations , corrupted but also knows our teaching of Quran to stand against of oppression , this what makes us unique among other Muslim nation and still existed in the map of world and will exit till the end of judgement days. Pakistan Zindabad

 

[Rasengan]

I agree that it is idealistic to think about ummah and unity among Muslim countries...whereas in reality that's not how the present world works. U r right that money talks...and a lot of Pakistanis are foolish to hold on to this ummah concept instead of putting their own country's interest first. However what's the alternative approach? Embracing that reality? Bending to things like money? If we give up the moral compass...for some extra bucks...wouldnt we also become like those Arab nations conferring medals on the likes of Modi while they brutalize Kashmiris?

I agree to some extent that ummah concept is dead...and it only holds Pakistan back in some instances to not be like many of those countries that ditch u in an instant if it means some sort of gain...but what's the alternative? I don't think there is an easy answer. Just the fact that Pak was unable to stand with Malaysia/Turkey at the recent summit(due to economical blackmail) was painful enough to watch...in this case there was no choice but to comply...imagine if Pak(as a country) had done it not bcuz it was backed in to a corner but for self gain? Some morals are worth having.

The ummah concept is a sublime doctrine advocated by the Holy Prophet (PBUH). I have never questioned this doctrine but the important problem arises in how to achieve it. In the present global structure the ummah concept hasn't worked and will continue to fail. Conventional wisdom advocates that every state will pursue its own national interests which unfortunately is above Muslim unity. I don't relish in writing such a reality but the truth is better than lying to oneself.

There is always an alternative. We should always ask the question why was Pakistan created? What makes our country different to other Muslim states? The answer is crystal clear. Pakistan is the only country to have been created in the name of Islam. What's the significance of such an outcome? It means Pakistan one day will be at the forefront of reviving the Muslim world. But you can't do such a sublime task with the current situation of Pakistan. Wars and battles are fought differently than they were centuries ago. Globalization has made sure the economic strength of a nation is just as important as the strength of its military. What economic power do the Muslim's have today? Conventional Banking is worth more than a $100 trillion whereas Islamic Banking is worth a mere $2 trillion. What political power do Muslim's have today? The OIC is a useless organization and its quite frankly irrelevant. What military strength do the Muslim's have today? Pakistan has nuclear weapons but we are still purchasing weapons from other countries including other Muslim states with a bigger budget than us.

So what is the answer to change this outcome. The truth is only Allah can decide what can happen. However, in my humble opinion let's go back to the question above. Why was Pakistan created? What makes Pakistan different to other Muslim states? It was created in the name of Islam. This means we should do everything in our power to make sure Pakistan first becomes an economic super power comparable to other powerful nations and have enough clout to control the foreign policies of other Muslim states through trade. Only then the concept of ummah can be achieved not from good words but by forceful means. Pakistan will be at the center but in order for it to become the core of the Muslim world it must be the strongest economically, politically and military.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

Indonesia and Malaysia had their long bloody conflict for five years and several times minor skirmish the latest is happened in 2006 over Ambalat area, there is no easy way to forget the feeling. Although relationship people to people contact is not as bad as India versus Pakistan but we are more akin like China and India in which trade and investment in large number happened between both countries along with cultural interaction but if we get the chance to spank them without repercursion we will do it gladly let alone just to steal their market and inflict some damages to their economy. The case had happened before, blackberry in 2009/ 2010 build their manufacturing industry in Malaysia although their large market is in Indonesia, thus prompt Indonesia people to boycott blackberry product and switch to Android and Samsung, the events made blackberry closed their facilities in Malaysia and retreat from Asia pasific.

We could care less about your spat with Malaysia but you better support Pakistan.

All Muslims are obligated to support Pakistan on Kashmir issue as Pakistan is an Islamic country.

India is a kuffar country. No Muslim country should support a kuffar country.

That's not a theory, it is written well here

https://kitaab.org/2017/08/20/india-indonesia-independence/amp/

I don't understand why you get mad at a fact. India helped us in the past too, so did other countries. Indonesia has also helped other countries regardless their religions. I think you are just being confused mixing your religious sentiment with political approach. And that's not healthy.

We could care less about your spat with Malaysia but you better support Pakistan.

All Muslims are obligated to support Pakistan on Kashmir issue as Pakistan is an Islamic country.

India is a kuffar country. No Muslim country should support a kuffar country.

 

[Cookie Monster]

The ummah concept is a sublime doctrine advocated by the Holy Prophet (PBUH). I have never questioned this doctrine but the important problem arises in how to achieve it. In the present global structure the ummah concept hasn't worked and will continue to fail. Conventional wisdom advocates that every state will pursue its own national interests which unfortunately is above Muslim unity. I don't relish in writing such a reality but the truth is better than lying to oneself.

There is always an alternative. We should always ask the question why was Pakistan created? What makes our country different to other Muslim states? The answer is crystal clear. Pakistan is the only country to have been created in the name of Islam. What's the significance of such an outcome? It means Pakistan one day will be at the forefront of reviving the Muslim world. But you can't do such a sublime task with the current situation of Pakistan. Wars and battles are fought differently than they were centuries ago. Globalization has made sure the economic strength of a nation is just as important as the strength of its military. What economic power do the Muslim's have today? Conventional Banking is worth more than a $100 trillion whereas Islamic Banking is worth a mere $2 trillion. What political power do Muslim's have today? The OIC is a useless organization and its quite frankly irrelevant. What military strength do the Muslim's have today? Pakistan has nuclear weapons but we are still purchasing weapons from other countries including other Muslim states with a bigger budget than us.

So what is the answer to change this outcome. The truth is only Allah can decide what can happen. However, in my humble opinion let's go back to the question above. Why was Pakistan created? What makes Pakistan different to other Muslim states? It was created in the name of Islam. This means we should do everything in our power to make sure Pakistan first becomes an economic super power comparable to other powerful nations and have enough clout to control the foreign policies of other Muslim states through trade. Only then the concept of ummah can be achieved not from good words but by forceful means. Pakistan will be at the center but in order for it to become the core of the Muslim world it must be the strongest economically, politically and military.

I definitely agree that Pak needs to be stronger...in every aspect...economy being a major factor of it. I also agree that the whole ummah concept in the modern world is just a nice thought that doesn't work in practice. However just bcuz it doesn't work...and countries only look out for self interest doesn't mean that Pak should blindly become like those countries.

What I mean to say is that Pak should go for its self interest...but not at the expense of its "values". Like u see in case of Arab countries...where they do not hesitate to backstab another Muslim country...in the name of "self interest". A recent example being(if the news is true) KSA blackmailing Pakistan to keep it from forming a potential competitor to the OIC with Malaysia and Turkey. That sort of morally bankrupt behavior doesn't sit right with me...and shouldn't sit right with any Pakistani. Pakistan should look out for its own interests but without falling this far. There must be balance...rather than blindly sinking into the abyss.

As for OIC or Muslim countries being powerless, irrelevant, etc. I disagree...
...they are only powerless, or irrelevant, or ineffective...bcuz they choose to be. Right now...despite not being at the forefront of technology...despite not being a superpower...Muslim countries together still have a significant military might, a sizable population, resources, economy, etc. If they act together...united...they can easily have their voice heard. Not just have their voice heard..they can emerge as a force that drives policies, laws, and trade at the world scale. They just don't recognize their own strength...and that is the fatal flaw that allows for the suffering of hundreds of thousands of Muslims.

 

[Rasengan]

I definitely agree that Pak needs to be stronger...in every aspect...economy being a major factor of it. I also agree that the whole ummah concept in the modern world is just a nice thought that doesn't work in practice. However just bcuz it doesn't work...and countries only look out for self interest doesn't mean that Pak should blindly become like those countries.

What I mean to say is that Pak should go for its self interest...but not at the expense of its "values". Like u see in case of Arab countries...where they do not hesitate to backstab another Muslim country...in the name of "self interest". A recent example being(if the news is true) KSA blackmailing Pakistan to keep it from forming a potential competitor to the OIC with Malaysia and Turkey. That sort of morally bankrupt behavior doesn't sit right with me...and shouldn't sit right with any Pakistani. Pakistan should look out for its own interests but without falling this far. There must be balance...rather than blindly sinking into the abyss.

As for OIC or Muslim countries being powerless, irrelevant, etc. I disagree...
...they are only powerless, or irrelevant, or ineffective...bcuz they choose to be. Right now...despite not being at the forefront of technology...despite not being a superpower...Muslim countries together still have a significant military might, a sizable population, resources, economy. If they act together...united...they can easily have their voice heard. Not just have their voice heard..they can emerge as a force that drives policies, laws, and trade at the world scale. They just don't recognize their own strength...and that is the fatal flaw that allows for the suffering of hundreds of thousands of Muslims.

When something doesn't work then conventional wisdom tells you to do something different. The definition of insanity as mentioned by Albert Einstein "is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results." You have answered the previous question in the above post. The ummah concept isn't practical and it doesn't work in the current period. Therefore, Pakistan's national interests in more important than heeding to a concept that doesn't exists. When it does exists then Pakistan should put the ummah first before its own national interests.

You mentioned the case of KSA blackmailing Pakistan. But again this just proves my point. Pakistan took the sensible step. This might not sit right with you but it was pragmatic. How many Pakistani's work in Saudi Arabia? 2-3 million people. In fact they are one of the largest senders of remittance money without it Pakistan would have collapsed. Saudi Arabia exported Oil to Pakistan on deferred payments and they pumped money to pay off some of the debt. If IK took the objective of morality into mind then Pakistan would have been economically destroyed. The Muslim world is not moving forward because we living in a bygone era.

The Muslim world is powerless and the last few decades is a testament to that. You have even answered this question yourself. What military might are we talking about. Most of the weapons in KSA come from the West the same applies to other Muslim states. So we can tick that off the box. What economic power do Muslim's have. Oil is losing its leverage and its significance isn't the same like it was during the 70s and 80s. The next industrial revolution will be artificial intelligence and technology in which no Muslim country is at the forefront. Just because the OIC doesn't choose to do something isn't the answer to our problem's. I told you before. Why was Pakistan created? What makes us different to other Muslim states? We were created in the name of Islam. This means Pakistan is the core of the Muslim world. Strengthen Pakistan first at all cost then the Muslim world will be strong with unity. Otherwise, what you are proposing is purely academic and Muslim's will be wondering the same question in another hundred years.


​

 

[Umair Nawaz]

well nothing will change, we never Take relationship with Pakistan seriously in the first place
fyi indonesia give free visa to over 170 nationality to enter indonesia and if i remember correctly there is only 14 country in the world that doesnt have that luxury and pakistan is one of them. so yeah the "ummah" thingy is never been a cornerstone of our foreign policy making.

first of all in 1945 there is no pakistan yet and those 200 people who fought for our independent strugle is "british india" troops who may came from all over the colony not just modern day pakistan, got the data proof me wrong.
and second thing is you stated that indonesia never help pakistan in any form and shape? Sukarno gave you guys 2 f****** submarines and dozen mig fighter jet, well i guess it doesn't count.

I am a military enthusiast myself and I never ever heard our military send our officers to be educated in Pakistan academy.

Even Zimbabwe got 30 days free visa to enter Indonesia but not Pakistan that's how important Pakistan to Indonesia for you.

If this is what yr pathetic kind thinks about us, then what r u doing in our forum to begin with?

And why does yr *** burns if we side with China on South China sea to begin with? as for those 600 soldiers, all of them were pakistanis and has been recognized by the indonesia government as well and was even mentioned by yr president on his recent visit to pakistan also! why was that then?

Im sorry but u need to buzz off from our forum, yr not qualified for being a member here. so shhhuuu offf

As written in the history, at that time, newly born Indonesia received lots of help and recognition from various countries including India, The USA and even Vatican. Now you mentioned that your British army has "fought" for us, but even if that's true, didn't we help you in return too?

You need to stop being in denial and accept the truth that Indonesia is shaped by different elements ranging from Hindu, Islam and so on, so you cannot frame my country using your flawed mindset. If we intervered your bilateral issues, it woud be a diplomatic disaster for Indonesia. And again, it is not about money, but Indonesia's national interest. You will understand when you are a grown man.

like i said, those 600 soldiers who deserted and fought for yr cause were pakistanis as has been recognized by yr own government so stop beating around the bush, as this is the REAL ACTUAL FACT! I have never mentioned/or said that british army was there to fight for u, u yrself had came up with that theory! in the first place! now who is being a grown up here.

And if indonesia hasnt interfered in a bilateral relations b/w pakistan and others then pakistan also didnt do that ever to with indonesia and her bilateral relations.....As for the submarine and all, buddy, u failed to study deeply again, it reached too later war was over by that time, it was never used and send back to indonesia.

Im not talking about bilateral relations here im talking about this specific palm oil move of yrs, in which india is punishing malaysia for its stand on kashmir issue for the sake of ummah, and for the sake of the larger co-operation among the Asiatic Nations, as the issues like Kashmir and Palestine which remain those barriers that lie between the rise and making of our own Asiatic Block like EU and NATO where we all pursue our own collective interests of economy and joint military strength against those who colonized us once upon a time and because of whom we r suffering......

For the larger interests of the ummah and for Asiatic co-operation this palm oil thingy would have been avoided. Because frankly it DOES look like money making is the only priority of the indonesia government!

 

[waz]

well nothing will change, we never Take relationship with Pakistan seriously in the first place
fyi indonesia give free visa to over 170 nationality to enter indonesia and if i remember correctly there is only 14 country in the world that doesnt have that luxury and pakistan is one of them. so yeah the "ummah" thingy is never been a cornerstone of our foreign policy making.

Good! Don't take it seriously we couldn't give a hell. As for the visa stuff, hilariously you came to our forum to tell us that? Don't you see the irony?

first of all in 1945 there is no pakistan yet and those 200 people who fought for our independent strugle is "british india" troops who may came from all over the colony not just modern day pakistan, got the data proof me wrong.

Rubbish and stop pretending as if you know. My grandfather and entire elder generation fought in the those forces and the vast majority came from what is now Pakistan. If you don't believe me have a look at how many Muslims serve in the Indian army now, the numbers are tiny, yet your logic suggests that they were from all over the colony which is virtually impossible.

and second thing is you stated that indonesia never help pakistan in any form and shape? Sukarno gave you guys 2 f****** submarines and dozen mig fighter jet, well i guess it doesn't count.

Yes he did.

I am a military enthusiast myself and I never ever heard our military send our officers to be educated in Pakistan academy.

I know nothing of this, there are only exercises.

Even Zimbabwe got 30 days free visa to enter Indonesia but not Pakistan that's how important Pakistan to Indonesia for you.

Good we don't give a damm, oh and good news regarding Zimbabwe. Are you going to invite millions of Zimbabweans into your country for work? They sure need the economic help.

One thing which annoys me is that Pakistanis should not look to anyone for help. Nations are not interested. Until you stand on your own two feet that's when the world takes note.
No more asking Indonesian posters for anything, you all got your response, bar one it was indifference and one extremely negative

 

[Beast]

https://www.agriculture.com/markets...osses-on-china-coronavirus-india-import-curbs

PALM OIL SET FOR MORE LOSSES ON CHINA CORONAVIRUS, INDIA IMPORT CURBS

2/2/2020
* Dalian palm oil fall daily 7% as China re-opens markets

* Malaysia palm futures climb 1.2% after 15% fall in January

* Five traders say palm oil to fall to 2,470-2,575 rgt range

By Mei Mei Chu

KUALA LUMPUR, Feb 3 (Reuters) - Malaysian palm oil futures could fall below 2,500 ringgit over coming weeks if the spread of a deadly coronavirus in China continues to disrupt travel and normal activity in the world's second-largest palm oil importer, brokers and traders said.

The fast-spreading virus, which has so far claimed more than 350 lives and infected more than 17,000 people in two dozen countries, has raised fears of a sustained disruption in supply chains and eating habits in the world's most populous nation and second-largest economy.


Dalian palm oil futures plunged by their daily limit of 7% on Monday as trading resumed after an extended Lunar New Year break, but still have further to fall to match the roughly 11% decline in benchmark Malaysian palm oil futures over China's holiday period.

Palm prices had already been under pressure from Jan. 8, when top palm oil buyer India restricted imports of refined grades and informally stopped all purchases from Malaysia over a diplomatic spat between the two nations.

"The bear is out of hibernation," said Paramalingam Supramaniam, director at Selangor, Malaysia-based brokerage Pelindung Bestari Sdn Bhd.

Malaysia's benchmark palm oil contract for April delivery on the Bursa Malaysia Derivatives Exchange plunged 14.9% in January, its biggest monthly drop since August 2014.


The contract was up 1.2% at 2,634 ringgit per tonne on Monday, after dropping nearly 9% last week.

Five traders told Reuters they expect palm oil to fall to between 2,470 and 2,575 ringgit a tonne within coming weeks.

Prices had overextended to the upside in an end-2019 rally and are now coming back down, said Anilkumar Bagani, research head of Sunvin Group, a Mumbai-based vegetable oil broker.

The tropical oil climbed 46.7% from Oct. 1 to Jan. 6 to three-year highs of 3,133 ringgit a tonne on expectations of lower production in both Indonesia and Malaysia due to dry weather and lower fertiliser use.

Lower demand, though, from top consumers India and China have taken a toll on prices since then, despite falling inventories in Malaysia, and Paramalingam said the market will remain bearish until fresh demand starts to emerge.


Meantime, brokers are taking on more short positions, a Kuala Lumpur-based trader said.

Open interest across all Malaysia palm oil contracts grew by roughly 30,000 contracts in January as prices retreated from above 3,100 ringgit, indicating a gain in shorts.

"When fear (of the virus outbreak) takes over, (falling) end-stocks are no solace. Nobody wants to try to catch a falling knife," Paramalingam said.

Malaysia's palm oil stocks hit a 27-month low of 2.01 million tonnes at end-December, down 11% from end-November, the Malaysian Palm Oil Board said in January.

(Reporting by Mei Mei Chu; Editing by Tom Hogue)

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