Indonesia Leaders : We Stand With The People of Palestine

[Respect4Respect01]

I've told you the Israel occupation on West Bank has been settled through OSLO Accord.
According to the OSLO accord: Israel occupation on region C is as legal as Palestinian occupation on region A + B.

In the past, West Bank was annexed illegally by Jordan in 1948 when Arab nations attack Israel after Israel declare independence in 1948 (and Jordan never given it to Palestinian); then after Jordan attack Israel on 1967 Israel annexed it from Jordan and occupied it until OSLO Accord.

According to Israel, there is no forced migration/settlement of Israel people to the west bank, they move by their own intention/willingness hence not violate Geneva Convention.

Amnesty International's accusation has been received by UN and was investigated by ICC under UN, but no verdict from the ICC/UN that support these accusation.

first of look at this map from British Government's archives and show me where is Israel. I will post a screenshot to make it easier for you, and then you can also open the link to confirm it.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/documents/maps-in-time.pdf

secondly, Oslo accords were not supported by majority of the Palestinians, then how can you force it upon them because they were a party to this conflict and you can't sign any agreement against the wishes of the people. That is the main reason why points agreed in Oslo accords were never fulfilled.

here are illegal Jewish settlers arriving in Palestine, and notice that not a single time in the video word "Israel" was used.

 

[antonius123]

first of look at this map from British Government's archives and show me where is Israel. I will post a screenshot to make it easier for you, and then you can also open the link to confirm it.

View attachment 758143

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/documents/maps-in-time.pdf

Then this British Map is wrong or inaccurate.
Israel declared independence in 1948, recognized by UN

The UK recognised Israel de facto on 13 May 1949,[24] and de jure on 28 April 1950.[25] Sir Alexander Knox Helm was the first British Chargé d'Affaires in Israel, whose rank was later raised to Minister, serving from 1949 to 1951.

Israel–United Kingdom relations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even if UK had not recognized Israel, the facto Israel exist. So the map can't change the fact.

Why bring such a desperate argument? The map can't change the truth

secondly, Oslo accords were not supported by majority of the Palestinians, then how can you force it upon them because they were a party to this conflict and you can't sign any agreement against the wishes of the people. That is the main reason why points agreed in Oslo accords were never fulfilled.

First, it is Palestinian internal matters. Toward international community, the OSLO accord is legitimate.

Second, without OSLO accord, whole West Bank is still under Israel occupation till now, Palestinian get nothing! So this show Israel is much more generous than Jordan, under Jordan occupation/annexation Jordan never offered/shared the west bank even an inch to Palestinian at all, but under Israel occupation Israel was willing to share this area with Palestinian

here are illegal Jewish settlers arriving in Palestine, and notice that not a single time in the video word "Israel" was used.

Israel declared in 1948, these video is about jewish settler before 1948, why matters?

 

[antonius123]

well of course you had no other way to deflect because its the ex Israeli soldiers themselves admitting.

you tell me then, why are these videos not correct?
secondly even if i go by your logic that "cruelness" can happen during war, then do you know that its called war crimes? Secondly some of those video are not from war times, one or two of those soldiers clearly mention that they were sent to take over land for the settlers.

I am not saying these videos are not correct, I am not a judge. Thats why I told you why not bring these claimed atrocities to UN/ICC for their investigation, and if the result of the investigation agree with these videos then UN/ICC will issue verdict or resolution against such atrocities.

This testimonies need investigation, it can be 100% correct, half true, or 100% incorrect.

The reason are many: political bias, money/self benefit, merely opinion (same people can have different opinion), objective testimony, etc.

You can't use it as evidence.

lol, but those videos are mostly from "Break the silence" which is an organization of ex Israeli soldiers who participated in crimes against civilians and now regret that and want to make a difference by raising their voices, and they are not against Israel btw, they just want equality for Palestinians.

It could happen, as I said atrocities happen in most war. Dont say it is not war, Hamas is still waging war to Israel even after the truce.

But as I said, even if it can happen, it is difficult to use the testimony from "Break the silence" as evidence because of anonymity and no detail (date etc).

The NGO has been criticized for publishing anonymous accounts. In 2016, an investigative television program said it had "discovered in the testimonies – along with many important stories that have been verified – also exaggerations, mistakes in good faith and unfounded rumors

Breaking the Silence (organization) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And even if this is true, the atrocities is atrocities of the soldier, doesn't mean it is intention of the government.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

@antonius123 i won't be able to reply for few months because im travelling, but when i come back we will pick it up from here. I will try to reply when i get time often.