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I may be pessimistic... But I'm not really sure the incoming decade or 2 gonna be "peaceful"...
Those who were holding total power... are little by little falling... and as History said " Kings never fall alone..."

Well, we should be more optimistic since we have God besides us. You are living in a western world so I think you dont see changes that happen in a Muslim community. Just look to Turkey, the most secular society in Muslim world but now is ruled by Islamist party.

I am optimistic about Indonesia and I can see more religious leader who is going to be much better in managing our country is about to come in 2024, inshaAllah. He has been seen as the most popular candidate according to recent survey and now is a governor of West Java, a region who are famous as strong hold of conservative Muslim along with Sumatra, South Sulawesi, and NTB islands.

Yes you are right.

That is why I said the start will be now and the recent conference in Malaysia was the start of the formation of the block in my opinion. There is no official block as such of course.
Most important thing is technology as without that you are nothing.
Turkey, Iran and Indonesia are ahead of the others in technology with Turkey in the lead there.
Once we have a large Muslim country like Turkey that is fully industrialised(around 2030) then this will change the rules of the game as Muslims will have access to nearly all civilian and military tech from Turkey.
Main thing is that it is realistic for Muslims to become a nearly self-contained block like EU by 2040 - ambitious but doable.

Turkey and Iran have leaders who are ambitious enough to develop indigenous technology. I have said in previous thread that Indonesia current leader is still less ambitious about advancing our technology. But I hope the condition will start to be different after 2024.
 
Well, we should be more optimistic since we have God besides us. You are living in a western world so I think you dont see changes that happen in a Muslim community. Just look like Turkey, the most secular society in Muslim world but now is ruled by Islamist party.

I am optimistic about Indonesia and I can see more religious leader who is going to be much better in managing our country is about to come in 2024, inshaAllah. He has been seen as the most popular candidate according to recent survey and now is a governor of West Java, a region who are famous as strong hold of conservative Muslim along with Sumatra, South Sulawesi, and NTB islands.

Believing in Allah, doesn't give us "Glory" in this Dunya at every step of our history... Only the Hereafter Glory is guaranteed.
Yes We should be Optimistic, but it doesn't mean we need to close our eyes to current dynamics or sugarcoat everything just because we "Believe".
You may see the rise of Turkey or your country as a good sign... I don't... Not That I am not happy for them, I am... but Unfortunately... It is not you only... the Arabs are rising... Iranians...Asians...Turks etc... And the reality is... They all believe to be the rightful owner of this Ummah... All of them think they are "Legitimate" to lead the Muslims... And therefore as History showed us... they will fight one another for that crown... Today... They have almost nothing and they are already in the brink of it... let alone tomorrow when they will be stronger and more independent from one another... and Even more cornered...Each side will side with the enemy or the other for his own gain...

Added to it the World geopolitical Dynamic...Where a King is on the brink of falling and his princes on the starting block... and you have it... Not so bright decades...

Not even going into the Annex issues... that is growing in our Human social backyards... with Water,food,ressources,climate etc...
 
Believing in Allah, doesn't give us "Glory" in this Dunya at every step of our history... Only the Hereafter Glory is guaranteed.
Yes We should be Optimistic, but it doesn't mean we need to close our eyes to current dynamics or sugarcoat everything just because we "Believe".
You may see the rise of Turkey or your country as a good sign... I don't... Not That I am not happy for them, I am... but Unfortunately... It is not you only... the Arabs are rising... Iranians...Asians...Turks etc... And the reality is... They all believe to be the rightful owner of this Ummah... All of them think they are "Legitimate" to lead the Muslims... And therefore as History showed us... they will fight one another for that crown... Today... They have almost nothing and they are already in the brink of it... let alone tomorrow when they will be stronger and more independent from one another... and Even more cornered...Each side will side with the enemy or the other for his own gain...

Added to it the World geopolitical Dynamic...Where a King is on the brink of falling and his princes on the starting block... and you have it... Not so bright decades...

Not even going into the Annex issues... that is growing in our Human social backyards... with Water,food,ressources,climate etc...

You still see the matter using traditional lens who see how the European countries are fighting each other for centuries for power. You should see using modern lens where you can see European countries now working together economically and militarily after the world war 2 ended.

As I also think that you also still see the matter from Caliphate idea where single country will lead all of the Muslim world. That is not a clever idea, Caliphate idea will produce disintegration more than unity. It has been proven in the past.

We should unite in the form of economic block or political block like African Union or European Union. Actually there is OIC already and we can make it more effective in the future. Anyway Allah has clearly said that we are made in different nations and tribes. This difference should be acknowledged and respected, we dont need to create a single Muslim nation. That idea has been used in different form by Hitler to unite all European countries and ended with huge disaster. European countries has already taken the lesson and moved forward.

And I dont include Arab nations in my previous post which talking about the raising of Muslim nations since I know Arab nations are the most conservative Muslim in the Muslim world. It can be seen from 90 % vote win for FIS party in Algeria in 1990, democratic Egypt where Islamic parties won 70 % seat in Parliament, Maroco and Tunisia are also lead by Islamic party. We just need to wait until Egypt turn into democratic once more, inshaAllah.

Our current problem actually happen because of the transition from authoritarian regime into a democratic nation are not working, particularly in Arab world. Rigid belief about Islam that is followed by As-Shabab and Taliban are also creating political and security problem in Somalia and Afghanistan that weaken their economic development.

And Libya is also now a contested region. Countries who dont like Islamist control Libya are now backing Haftar, and it includes Muslim nations like Egypt and UAE. Democracy is the only solution and if Haftar doesnt want to accept peace agreement, Turkey should deploy large troops to Libya as soon as possible.

Despite those failed transition on those countries, I believe Algeria and Sudan will be able to transform their nation into democracy.

My conclusion is that I still hold my optimistic view about Muslim world. There are still problems but most countries are still progressing economically. Indonesia may not be seen as a leader, but surely it can be a good example of how Muslim nation can progress in a democratic system.
 
You still see the matter using traditional lens who see how the European countries are fighting each other for centuries for power. You should see using modern lens where you can see European countries now working together economically and militarily after the world war 2 ended.

As I also think that you also still see the matter from Caliphate idea where single country will lead all of the Muslim world. That is not a clever idea, Caliphate idea will produce disintegration more than unity. It has been proven in the past.

We should unite in the form of economic block or political block like African Union or European Union. Actually there is OIC already and we can make it more effective in the future. Anyway Allah has clearly said that we are made in different nations and tribes. This difference should be acknowledged and respected, we dont need to create a single Muslim nation. That idea has been used in different form by Hitler to unite all European countries and ended with huge disaster. European countries has already taken the lesson and moved forward.

And I dont include Arab nations in my previous post which talking about the raising of Muslim nations since I know Arab nations are the most conservative Muslim in the Muslim world. It can be seen from 90 % vote win for FIS party in Algeria in 1990, democratic Egypt where Islamic parties won 70 % seat in Parliament, Maroco and Tunisia are also lead by Islamic party. We just need to wait until Egypt turn into democratic once more, inshaAllah.

Our current problem actually happen because of the transition from authoritarian regime into a democratic nation are not working, particularly in Arab world. Rigid belief about Islam that is followed by As-Shabab and Taliban are also creating political and security problem in Somalia and Afghanistan that weaken their economic development.

And Libya is also now a contested region. Countries who dont like Islamist control Libya are now backing Haftar, and it includes Muslim nations like Egypt and UAE. Democracy is the only solution and if Haftar doesnt want to accept peace agreement, Turkey should deploy large troops to Libya as soon as possible.

Despite those failed transition on those countries, I believe Algeria and Sudan will be able to transform their nation into democracy.

My conclusion is that I still hold my optimistic view about Muslim world. There are still problems but most countries are still progressing economically. Indonesia may not be seen as a leader, but surely it can be a good example of how Muslim nation can progress in a democratic system.

No offence but Arabs will be followers and not leaders of the Muslim block
They are too tribal to create modern nation states.
 
No offence but Arabs will be followers and not leaders of the Muslim block
They are too tribal to create modern nation states.
May I ask how Arabs lived since The 50s?
 
You still see the matter using traditional lens who see how the European countries are fighting each other for centuries for power. You should see using modern lens where you can see European countries now working together economically and militarily after the world war 2 ended.

As I also think that you also still see the matter from Caliphate idea where single country will lead all of the Muslim world. That is not a clever idea, Caliphate idea will produce disintegration more than unity. It has been proven in the past.

We should unite in the form of economic block or political block like African Union or European Union. Actually there is OIC already and we can make it more effective in the future. Anyway Allah has clearly said that we are made in different nations and tribes. This difference should be acknowledged and respected, we dont need to create a single Muslim nation. That idea has been used in different form by Hitler to unite all European countries and ended with huge disaster. European countries has already taken the lesson and moved forward.

And I dont include Arab nations in my previous post which talking about the raising of Muslim nations since I know Arab nations are the most conservative Muslim in the Muslim world. It can be seen from 90 % vote win for FIS party in Algeria in 1990, democratic Egypt where Islamic parties won 70 % seat in Parliament, Maroco and Tunisia are also lead by Islamic party. We just need to wait until Egypt turn into democratic once more, inshaAllah.

Our current problem actually happen because of the transition from authoritarian regime into a democratic nation are not working, particularly in Arab world. Rigid belief about Islam that is followed by As-Shabab and Taliban are also creating political and security problem in Somalia and Afghanistan that weaken their economic development.

And Libya is also now a contested region. Countries who dont like Islamist control Libya are now backing Haftar, and it includes Muslim nations like Egypt and UAE. Democracy is the only solution and if Haftar doesnt want to accept peace agreement, Turkey should deploy large troops to Libya as soon as possible.

Despite those failed transition on those countries, I believe Algeria and Sudan will be able to transform their nation into democracy.

My conclusion is that I still hold my optimistic view about Muslim world. There are still problems but most countries are still progressing economically. Indonesia may not be seen as a leader, but surely it can be a good example of how Muslim nation can progress in a democratic system.

Nothing Islamist about Erdogan, he just uses it for his Ottoman dreams.

To be Islamic you must first Islamify your own streets, Istanbul is liberal.
 
May I ask how Arabs lived since The 50s?

Does not matter if you are followers as the Muslim bloc will treat you guys much better than the West has done. You will be seen as fellow brothers and sisters.
We are all Muslims at the end of the day and your lands are strategic and hold enormous energy wealth.
I think in 20 years time the Muslim bloc will be led by Turkey, Iran, Indonesia and BD as they would be the richest and most developed of all the Muslim countries with populations of at least 100 million.
 
No offence but Arabs will be followers and not leaders of the Muslim block
They are too tribal to create modern nation states.

PDF and trolling seems to be a common theme. That and Arab-obsession and useless/nonsense posts in relation to Arabs.

You do realize that Arabs have influenced Islam and Islamic civilization the most of all people in the world? There is no comparison at all.

That the same Arabs were behind 95% of all Islamic conquests in recorded history (rest of the areas of the Muslim world were Islam was spread occurred largely thanks to Arab traders and Arab Sufi "saints" and scholars) and ruled the Caliphate and most of the Muslim world from the very beginning and almost 1000 years until 1517? That no other people have been as influential in the Muslim world as the Arabs? That basically every non-Arab Muslim community in the world is Arabized to a degree. Arabic alone having influenced every language spoken in the Muslim world from Balkans to Sub-Saharan Africa to Central Asia to South Asia to South East Asia.

As for "modern states", you do realize that Arabs have more nation states that any other Muslim ethnic group by far? That the Arab world is the cradle of civilization and home to the first nation states, civilizations and cultures in the world?

Laughable.

Does not matter if you are followers as the Muslim bloc will treat you guys much better than the West has done. You will be seen as fellow brothers and sisters.
We are all Muslims at the end of the day and your lands are strategic and hold enormous energy wealth.
I think in 20 years time the Muslim bloc will be led by Turkey, Iran, Indonesia and BD as they would be the richest and most developed of all the Muslim countries with populations of at least 100 million.

"Arab lands are strategic and hold enormous energy wealth", yet 500 + million Arabs (by far largest ethnic group in the Muslim world and only second to the Han Chinese in the entire world) and quickly growing at that (huge population booms) living in the most strategic area in the Muslim world and the largest landmass by far (almost the size of Russia stretching from the Atlantic Ocean to the Arabian Sea/Indian Ocean) and by far the largest economy in the Muslim world (will be the case in the future as well given the enormous resources, location, youth population and population size/boom) will somehow play second fiddle contrary to the ground realities in the past 1400 years.
LOL.

ALL while ALL the Muslim holy sites being located in the Arab world (as always), Arabic being the liturgic language of Islam and the Arab world (more precisely Arabia) being the cradle of Islam.

How about you Arab-obsessed and anti-Arabs create your own new version of Islam or another religion where anything remotely Arab-related is removed in order to live in your fantasy world?

As for those imaginary blocs, those countries have nothing in common. They don't even speak the same language, lol. Those 4 countries are lightyears behind the GCC alone development wise and living standard wise. Economically as well.

May I ask how Arabs lived since The 50s?

This forum of Arabized trolls is increasingly anti-Arab/Arab-obsessed, hence the outrageous nonsense that you read about Arabs. 99% of all Arabs have left the forum. The few of us remaining Arab users should do the same thing.

Nothing Islamist about Erdogan, he just uses it for his Ottoman dreams.

To be Islamic you must first Islamify your own streets, Istanbul is liberal.

Al-Assad ruled Syria used to be more "Islamic" prior to 2011, lol.
 
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@ArabianEmpires&Caliphates

Why are Arabs not all part of one country?
Same language and religion should make single country.

Why is there a West Bengal and a Bangladesh? They should be one country.

Why are there numerous Germanic and Slavic countries? They should be one country.

Why are all those Spanish-speaking Latin American republics with the same genetic makeup (mixture of indigenous tribes, Spaniards/other European migrants, Arabs and Africans), largely same culture, similar history and located in the same geography not part of the same country?

Well the short answer is that the Arab world used to be part of the same ancient civilizations, empires, caliphates, kingdoms, sultanates, emirates, sheikdoms, imamates etc. but the curse of events dragged them apart and the ruling families created their own distinct possession as throughout history in every part of the world.

A single Arab entity is not realistic nowadays and requires the removal of most of the regimes in power and the right people (representative for the Arab people and street) to reach power. 3-4 strong regional Arab blocs emerging is more realistic. GCC is a good start as was other regional Arab projects in recent decades such as the Arab Maghreb Union and those that I will quickly mention below. Iraq and Syria (when both were ruled by the Ba'ath party) had all the opportunities to unite (Syria annexing Lebanon) but useless regimes in power prevented it likewise during the Arab Federation (Nasser-ruled Egypt and Syria) and likewise Palestine and Jordan pre-1967. We had the unification of Southern and Northern Yemen. The unification of KSA under Ibn Saud which otherwise would have added 4-5 new countries in Arabia alone.

My personal belief and that of most Arabs not overly attached to their country flags and who know their own history, that of the Arab world and everything that binds us Arabs together and who have visions, is, that Arab unity is the only solution to the major challenges of the Arab world and I am personally in favor of the GCC becoming a federal state tomorrow morning if possible with the addition of neighboring Yemen, Iraq and Jordan. I see no point for those small GCC states to be existing as sovereign countries led by monarchies and extremely pampered local populations in particular in Kuwait, Qatar and UAE (natural given the enormous riches and small native populations) while 35 million (and quickly growing by 2030 approaching 100 million alone) of our Yemeni brethren live in a different reality next door.
 
Why is there a West Bengal and a Bangladesh? They should be one country.

Why are there numerous Germanic and Slavic countries? They should be one country.

Why are all those Spanish-speaking Latin American republics with the same genetic makeup (mixture of indigenous tribes, Spaniards/other European migrants, Arabs and Africans), largely same culture, similar history and located in the same geography not part of the same country?

Well the short answer is that the Arab world used to be part of the same ancient civilizations, empires, caliphates, kingdoms, sultanates, emirates, sheikdoms, imamates etc. but the curse of events dragged them apart and the ruling families created their own distinct possession as throughout history in every part of the world.

A single Arab entity is not realistic nowadays and requires the removal of most of the regimes in power and the right people (representative for the Arab people and street) to reach power. 3-4 strong regional Arab blocs emerging is more realistic. GCC is a good start. Iraq and Syria (when both were ruled by the Ba'ath party) had all the opportunities to unite (Syria annexing Lebanon) but useless regimes in power prevented it likewise during the Arab Federation (Nasser-ruled Egypt and Syria) and likewise Palestine and Jordan pre-1967.

My personal belief and that of most Arabs not overly attached to their country flags and who know their own history that of the Arab world and everything that binds us Arabs together, is, that Arab unity is the only solution to the major challenges of the Arab world and I am personally in favor of the GCC becoming a federal state tomorrow morning if possible. I see no point for those small GCC states to be existing as sovereign countries led by monarchies and extremely pampered local populations in particular in Kuwait, Qatar and UAE (natural given the enormous riches and small native populations) while 35 million (and quickly growing) of our Yemeni brethren live in a different reality next door.

Nope W Bengal and BD are separate as one is Hindu and the other Muslim.
Germany and Austria was physically separated after WW2 by the victors.
Latin American countries are a separate issue entirely as they are the result of colonialism.
See no-one is going to take Arabs seriously if you insist on splitting yourself into 2 dozen states.
 
Nope W Bengal and BD are separate as one is Hindu and the other Muslim.
Germany and Austria was physically separated after WW2 by the victors.
Latin American countries are a separate issue entirely as they are the result of colonialism.
See no-one is going to take Arabs seriously if you insists on splitting yourself into 2 dozen states.

So what? There are Muslim and Hindu minorities across the border and since when is religion the defining theme when you are the exact same people? If not for Arab missionaries, traders, rulers and other Muslims, an Indian Bengali Hindu and a Muslim Bangladeshi would be the exact same people on every imaginable front.

Do you think that non-Bengalis, say an Arab, can pick you guys apart say in KSA, UAE or Qatar or KSA? No way.

800 years ago you were both mostly Hindu. That is some 25 generations or so. Once again the people were ruled by various rulers but that was the case all across the world.
In such a case Arab Christians should have their own country yet that never occurred anywhere whether in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq or Jordan.

Austria and Germany are not the only Germanic countries in Europe let alone the only German-speaking countries. Why are tiny countries such as Sweden, Norway and Denmark, who speak languages that are mutually intelligible and who share the same culture and history, not part of one strong federal state? Why is Portugal and Spain not one country? Why are all those Slavic countries not united? List is very long.

You clearly did not read what I wrote. Most Arabs who care about politics and who have an understanding of their own history, are not content with status quo and most Arabs, regardless of ideology and religion, want greater Arab unification regardless of region in the Arab world. The ground reality is that the regimes in power and the ground realities (political) have nothing to do with anything that binds us together. Whether it be the Moroccan-Algerian hostility or whatever is seen in the Mashriq.

However the sad reality is that most people in the world, if they live a good, wealthy and secure life, such as the average person in the GCC (in particular extremely wealthy countries like Qatar and UAE), have little to no incentive to share their wealth and riches with less fortunate Arabs that they share almost everything in common with. That is just human nature/greed. Unless they are forced to unite due to political circumstances for instance a threat from the outside or a common enemy Just like you are not going to hand out your families wealth to random Bangladeshis in the UK just because you happen to share the same ethnicity with them.

So I am all in favor of the region erupting and for historical ills to be corrected once the region has calmed down. The status quo is once again not something that I support.
 
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