Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

Succesfully circumvent it by buying Flankers...?

By adopt major reform in government and TNI

 

[Gen3115]

Succesfully circumvent it by buying Flankers...?

By adopt major reform in government and TNI

Um no, circumventing literally means going around an obstacle, what I meant is this

IMO, the 4 Flankers were more of a diplomatic tool and was only there to augment the existing workhorses at the time and buying them isn't circumventing the problem, it was just avoiding the problem altogether and creating new problems afterwards. Even they were not flying often and was inactive since 2003 and had to have their comms equipment updated at the time. Not too mention even the armaments came way later.

My point is though, people seem to forget the reason for the arms embargo and why it happened in the first place. Seems like a lot of people think it happened out of nothing. Thats where the reforms come in.

 

[Chestnut]

Or is he talking about integration of Link16 and Link Y into scytalis BMS ??

Likely that.

 

[umigami]

Likely that.

Which one didn't want to give source code?
US or France?
I think France, because from their website scitalys already know how to handle Link16 but no link-y mentioned.

 

[Chestnut]

Both.

What I get from that Tweet is that the Indonesian Government wants the code so they can do the integration themselves with LEN. Which is stupid and isn't going to happen.

No one is going to be willing to give source code for that, be they Russian, Chinese, American, or European. The best they can do is send an LOR to the respective governments and SCYTALIS (as a NATO vendor) would do the integration work after signing the appropriate NDA/gag orders so as to protect confidential technologies.

 

[umigami]

Both.

What I get from that Tweet is that the Indonesian Government wants the code so they can do the integration themselves with LEN. Which is stupid and isn't going to happen.

No one is going to be willing to give source code for that, be they Russian, Chinese, American, or European. The best they can do is send an LOR to the respective governments and SCYTALIS (as a NATO vendor) would do the integration work after signing the appropriate NDA/gag orders so as to protect confidential technologies.

Basically you need to get permission from each party to be connected to each other, right?
And huge number of Indonesian netizen out there still think Scitalys is a JAGOAN CODING that can magically put Flanker link into one BMS platform with western link...??!

BIG LOL aja deh...

 

[Azull]

Both.

What I get from that Tweet is that the Indonesian Government wants the code so they can do the integration themselves with LEN. Which is stupid and isn't going to happen.

No one is going to be willing to give source code for that, be they Russian, Chinese, American, or European. The best they can do is send an LOR to the respective governments and SCYTALIS (as a NATO vendor) would do the integration work after signing the appropriate NDA/gag orders so as to protect confidential technologies.

It makes sense. Its a system highly resistant to jamming. If even a small part of the datalink system is leaked to unfriendly country, it would compromise all of the user of the said system.

The source code of link16 or linkY will not be given to Indonesia even if Indonesia has the capability to send people to mars hahaha.

 

[Azull]

Basically you need to get permission from each party to be connected to each other, right?
And huge number of Indonesian netizen out there still think Scitalys is a JAGOAN CODING that can magically put Flanker link into one BMS platform with western link...??!

BIG LOL aja deh...

Of course SCYTALIS is good at what they do. They have the capabilities and experience with western datalink system.

They are the one building the national datalink system of South Korea and Japan.

I imagine any Nato country capable of developing its own datalink system like the US with their Link11, Link16 and Link22 and also the Netherlands with the LinkY would refuse to give the source code of their datalink system in fear of leakage on their own system. Not to mention if the country who requested for the source code has plans to connect those datalink system with an eastern block datalink system found in our flankers. Most probably they have fear that it would compromise their datalink system to the russian or chinese side.

 

[Chestnut]

Basically you need to get permission from each party to be connected to each other, right?
And huge number of Indonesian netizen out there still think Scitalys is a JAGOAN CODING that can magically put Flanker link into one BMS platform with western link...??!

BIG LOL aja deh...

That the thing.

The respective governments involved would appoint a third party (in this case SCYTALIS) to do the integration work and each government would individually assess that third party to make sure that none of the respective confidential technologies would be leaked to the other parties, be it through an NDA/gag order, security check, etc.

Remember that TDL's only work with their own TDL's. Meaning Link 16 can only fully integrate with Link 16 and Link Y with Link Y. So obviously you're going to need a common denominator that can take all that data and share it with both. Which is where SCYTALIS comes in.

If things goes well, then they would all allow SCYTALIS to work on their respective TDL's and create a universal common link that allows them to partly talk to one another through a common denominator (like an AWACS or a C2 center). If not, then the proposal gets revoked.

This is why you see that linking different data-links together works for some countries (South Korea, NATO, Australia, Singapore) yet fails with others (India, Malaysia, Egypt, etc.). The US would understandably be more palatable in allowing their Link 11/16/22 to share data with a European data-link such as Link Y or MANDRIL through a "translator" as compared to a Russian or Chinese data-link.

 

[umigami]

That the thing.

The respective governments involved would appoint a third party (in this case SCYTALIS) to do the integration work and each government would individually assess that third party to make sure that none of the respective confidential technologies would be leaked to the other parties, be it through an NDA/gag order, security check, etc.

Remember that TDL's only work with their own TDL's. Meaning Link 16 can only fully integrate with Link 16 and Link Y with Link Y. So obviously you're going to need a common denominator that can take all that data and share it with both. Which is where SCYTALIS comes in.

If things goes well, then they would all allow SCYTALIS to work on their respective TDL's and create a universal common link that allows them to partly talk to one another through a common denominator (like an AWACS or a C2 center). If not, then the proposal gets revoked.

This is why you see that linking different data-links together works for some countries (South Korea, NATO, Australia, Singapore) yet fails with others (India, Malaysia, Egypt, etc.). The US would understandably be more palatable in allowing their Link 11/16/22 to share data with a European data-link such as Link Y or MANDRIL through a "translator" as compared to a Russian or Chinese data-link.

MoD already contract Scitalys, so this problem already resolved in the way as you mentioned, right?
Then why AH need to bring this up?
MoD masih ngotot lewat LEN aja?

 

[Cromwell]

DSME1400 Class project will be continued

 

[Cromwell]

Basically you need to get permission from each party to be connected to each other, right?
And huge number of Indonesian netizen out there still think Scitalys is a JAGOAN CODING that can magically put Flanker link into one BMS platform with western link...??!

BIG LOL aja deh...

Well those netizens in local military forum, they will find themself disappointed when they reading what we are discussing here. The thing is, what they've been imagining is impossible.

 

[Chestnut]

MoD already contract Scitalys, so this problem already resolved in the way as you mentioned, right?
Then why AH need to bring this up?
MoD masih ngotot lewat LEN aja?

Because you still need a TDL for things that don't require Link 16 or Link Y integration. For example smaller patrol boats or tactical/armored vehicles. That's where the proposed LEN link comes in.

For the most part, you only need Link 16/Link Y for assets that you know are going to work with close cooperation with our "NOT ALLIES" in the region such as Australia, Singapore, and the United States.

Things such as F-16's, AWACS, MPA's, AAW frigates, Corvettes, Submarines, Ospreys, Apaches, MRAD/HIMAD IADS systems, and GCI/Surveillance radars are obviously going to be more at play with each other when it comes to multinational force compatibility thus would require a Link 16/Link Y TDL unit.

Whereas things such as Leopards, CEASARS, Bell 412's, Fennecs, Komodos, Anoas, VSHORADS/SHORAD etc can simply have a partly enclosed indigenous TDL shared within their own local battle space. For example, you really don't need a full Link 16 TDL unit on a Komodo with a Mistral launcher since it's going to be rather expensive and you can simply share that data to say, an AWACS with a JTAC/TACP or a C2 center.

Again, that's where the proposed LEN link comes in. LEN link to my best guess is supposed to link up all the other "dumber" assets that doesn't need Link 16/Link Y capability. This is similar in scheme to the South Korean Link-K.

Korea develops indigenous tactical data link

www.koreatimes.co.kr

What SCYLATIS is doing is simply creating a central node that can process all the data that is being given out by the different data-link networks together. Similar to what they did in Korea and Japan. And again, this is all subject to the approval of all the different governments involved.

Now I don't know who AH is talking to. But if the person he was talking to is implying that there are people in the government that are demanding that PT LEN be the integrator as opposed to SCYLATIS, then it's going to fail miserably. You're going to need a neutral third party with a certain criteria in order to link all these different networks together. And with LEN being a state owned company, they already fail in that criteria.

However, if it is simply attempting to integrate LEN link onto the wider National Data Link network. Then that is going to be subject of:

i.) Who are the sub contractors.

ii.) Where were the components made.

iii.) How secure is the network.

Edit: And before anyone asks, NO, you can't use a LEN link TDL on a Flanker. The Russians aren't going to give us the source codes for the Myech/Irbis-E radar no matter how many times we ask. Stop being cringe.

 

[umigami]

And before anyone asks, NO, you can't use a LEN link TDL on a Flanker. The Russians aren't going to give us the source codes for the Myech/Irbis-E radar no matter how many times we ask. Stop being cringe.

Other parties will not approve it anyway..

 

[Nike]

Because you still need a TDL for things that don't require Link 16 or Link Y integration. For example smaller patrol boats or tactical/armored vehicles. That's where the proposed LEN link comes in.

For the most part, you only need Link 16/Link Y for assets that you know are going to work with close cooperation with our "NOT ALLIES" in the region such as Australia, Singapore, and the United States.

Things such as F-16's, AWACS, MPA's, AAW frigates, Corvettes, Submarines, Ospreys, Apaches, MRAD/HIMAD IADS systems, and GCI/Surveillance radars are obviously going to be more at play with each other when it comes to multinational force compatibility thus would require a Link 16/Link Y TDL unit.

Whereas things such as Leopards, CEASARS, Bell 412's, Fennecs, Komodos, Anoas, VSHORADS/SHORAD etc can simply have a partly enclosed indigenous TDL shared within their own local battle space. For example, you really don't need a full Link 16 TDL unit on a Komodo with a Mistral launcher since it's going to be rather expensive and you can simply share that data to say, an AWACS with a JTAC/TACP or a C2 center.

Again, that's where the proposed LEN link comes in. LEN link to my best guess is supposed to link up all the other "dumber" assets that doesn't need Link 16/Link Y capability. This is similar in scheme to the South Korean Link-K.

Korea develops indigenous tactical data link

www.koreatimes.co.kr

What SCYLATIS is doing is simply creating a central node that can process all the data that is being given out by the different data-link networks together. Similar to what they did in Korea and Japan. And again, this is all subject to the approval of all the different governments involved.

Now I don't know who AH is talking to. But if the person he was talking to is implying that there are people in the government that are demanding that PT LEN be the integrator as opposed to SCYLATIS, then it's going to fail miserably. You're going to need a neutral third party with a certain criteria in order to link all these different networks together. And with LEN being a state owned company, they already fail in that criteria.

However, if it is simply attempting to integrate LEN link onto the wider National Data Link network. Then that is going to be subject of:

i.) Who are the sub contractors.

ii.) Where were the components made.

iii.) How secure is the network.

Edit: And before anyone asks, NO, you can't use a LEN link TDL on a Flanker. The Russians aren't going to give us the source codes for the Myech/Irbis-E radar no matter how many times we ask. Stop being cringe.

As far as i know, PINDAD and Thales is in cooperation to include Link Y tactical datalink on several TNI AD important assets such as Komodo Command Vehicles for Army Air Defense Battalion (Mistral launcher units) and Army Artillery Battalion (Caesar and Astros), but surely not all assets is in command of high end data link system.