Indonesia Defence Forum

[Raduga]

most people dont understand that each ministry already have a part of its own budget , no matter how much you put into covid-19 relieves if the budget is mismanaged like the "kalung antivirus" it wouldn't do shit to change the situtation .

 

[umigami]

Gw masih gk ngerti tentang maksud "nenangin masyarakat" , jadi maksudnya sebenarnya barangnya udh deal, tapi kemenhan belum mau buka ke masyarakat karena takut dikira "pemborosan" atau "tidak sensitif" di masa covid ini ?

I think this situation just gonna die down eventually. Almost no major local news channel pick this DSCA news

 

[Raduga]

I think this situation just gonna get down eventually. Almost no major local news channel don't pick this DSCA news

heeh palingan seminggu juga udah pudar itu berita , banyak orang awam sama formiler baru yang kaget dengan nilai $2 billion ........... mungkin kalo tiba tiba kedepan nya dana atau alokasi yang dianggarkan AD untuk proyekan SAM/ABM dipaparkan malah bisa lebih bikin kejang kejang lagi.

 

[Kansel]

I think this situation just gonna die down eventually. Almost no major local news channel pick this DSCA news

Because most of major military local news is biased

 

[umigami]

@Kansel what I mean is ordinary local news (metro, tipiwan, etc)

 

[Indos]

I think this situation just gonna die down eventually. Almost no major local news channel pick this DSCA news

 

[Chestnut]

Thats why I said it is still in speculation. @Chestnut as some one in the industry has already explained about our armed force acquisition process which is still not clear of bribery yet. Even you also acknowledge that.

And I also said that unlike European, Russian, or South Korean deals; American ones are notoriously hard to corrupt. Don't mince my words please.

Pembelian apache kemarin ada kasus korupsinya.

Which happened on our end where the General misappropriated money on his own. I doubt Boeing or the US government had anything to do with it.

 

[umigami]

I said almost right?
Dan coba perhatikan, gaungnya tetap ga terasa kan di publik awam. Klo military enthusiasts sih iya..

 

[Gen3115]

It is the most transparent, yes. But the possibility for that is still there. Dont be naive. If it doesnt meet the requirement but we still request it so there is something fishy there.

But we dont know who the source is so just see it as speculation.

Pembelian apache kemarin ada kasus korupsinya.

From what I know, the Brigjen Teddy case is him redirecting and misappropriating our own funds and its not a bribe or kickback case where you have an OEM bribing officials here so we would prefer their products. Corruption is corruption, but misappropriating funds and bribing are 2 different forms of corruption.

 

[Chestnut]

Not saying that there were no bribes involved as that's just business as usual here. What really irks off corruptors when it comes to US deals is that it is harder to misappropriate, mark up, or redirect funds when everything is laid out in a public press release and an online copy of the contract can be looked up or obtained using a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request to the US State Department.

https://www.antaranews.com/berita/1...-osprey-mantan-sekjen-kemhan-klaim-sepihak-as

The funny thing about this article that I know and not a lot of people do is that this Heavy Lift contract has been a back and forth issue with MinDef and the US as far back as 2018 and beyond. But this article makes it look like there was no serious intent to purchase them when I know for a fact that they only started to talk to Bell after a few hiccups in the discussions with Boeing.

 

[Nike]

And I also said that unlike European, Russian, or South Korean deals; American ones are notoriously hard to corrupt. Don't mince my words please.


Which happened on our end where the General misappropriated money on his own. I doubt Boeing or the US government had anything to do with it.

You (foreigner) do corruption in US soil involved their own company, then they Will after you even to the ends of the world

 

[Indos]

I said almost right?
Dan coba perhatikan, gaungnya tetap ga terasa kan di publik awam. Klo military enthusiasts sih iya..

It is just posted 1 hour ago, we need to see how this news goes viral. As far as I know, general public dont read newspaper much, but dont understate online news and Youtube.

We may miss watching a news on TV but in this online and Youtube era the exact news can roll on again and again as most Indonesian have smartphone already. Maybe it can be a big topic next week on Karni Ilyas show, so we need to see for another 1-2 weeks to see the effect but the tone made by Kompas is already bad for this acquisition plan.

 

[Chestnut]

Honestly we should take this as a lesson in transparency. The US being transparent with the DSCA means they can abet blame as they had laid everything out in the open. MinDef not making it publicly known for over 2 years that they were talking to Bell as a counter to the Chinook deal ended up with them having to awkwardly explain to the public and deflect blame. This leads to articles and misquotes like the ones above an AH's tweet.

 

[Nike]

RI Mau Bikin 3 Kapal Selam Lagi, Nasibnya di Tangan Prabowo

08 Juli 2020



Uji coba kapal selam KRI Alugoro (all photos : PAL)

Jakarta, CNBC Indonesia - Pembangunan 3 kapal selam baru di Indonesia sudah direncanakan akan dibuat kembali sebagai fase kedua pengadaan kapal selam di bawah pesanan Kementerian Pertahanan (Kemenhan). Sempat direncanakan pembangunan kapal selam ke-4, 5 dan 6 yang akan dibangun di PT PAL Surabaya.

Kontrak pengadaan kapal selam yang ke 4, 5, dan 6 sempat diteken pada 12 April 2019 oleh menteri pertahanan sebelumnya. Bagaimana dengan kebijakan menteri pertahanan (Menhan) Prabowo Subianto saat ini?

Sebelumnya dua kapal selam yaitu KRI Nagapasa-403 dan KRI Ardadedali-404 dikirimkan ke Kemenhan pada Agustus 2017 dan Mei 2018. Kedua kapal dibuat di galangan DSME, Geoje, Gyeongsang Selatan, Korea Selatan. Sedangkan kapal selam ketiga Kapal Selam ALugoro-405 yang dibuat di PT PAL Surabaya sudah berhasil dibuat dan lolos tes menyelam, dan rencananya akhir 2020 akan diserahkan ke Kemenhan.

Direktur Utama PT PAL Indonesia Budiman Saleh sempat menyinggung soal nasib kontrak pengadaan kapal selam fase kedua sebanyak 3 unit, termasuk soal permasalahan anggaran.




"Pada 2020 ini kita fokus untuk menyelesaikan unit kapal selam ke 4, 5, dan 6, untuk itu kami berharap adanya kepastian tentang penambahan kekurangan dana PMN Rp 1,7 triliun," kata Budiman Februari 2020 lalu.

Selain akan memproduksi 3 kapal selam tersebut, PT PAL Indonesia masih akan memproduksi sekitar 6 kapal selam lagi, sehingga nantinya Indonesia punya 12 unit kapal selam buatan dalam negeri.

Rencana produksi kapal selam di Indonesia dalam jumlah besar sudah digariskan oleh Kemenhan sebelum era Menhan Prabowo. Dalam laporan tahunan Ditjen Potensi Pertahanan 2018 menunjukkan rencana tersebut

"Program Kapal Selam akan dilanjutkan ke tahap kedua, dengan pembuatan kapal selam ke-4 hingga ke-6. Pada tahap ini, proporsi PT. PAL dalam proses produksi diproyeksikan untuk semakin membesar, di mana Kapal Selam ke-6 sudah dibuat sepenuhnya di PT. PAL," jelas laporan itu.

Dari sisi PT PAL Indonesia selaku perusahaan pembuat, sejak awal sudah bersiap. Mereka menegaskan pengembangan kapal selam bagian dari rencana perusahaan, termasuk kapal-kapal lainnya.

"Perusahaan ke depan akan terus berinovasi mengembangkan berbagai tipe kapal perang, termasuk pengembangan lanjutan dari Kapal KCR 60 M, Kapal PKR, Kapal LPD 124 M, dan Kapal Selam Nagapasa Class," jelas PT PAL dalam laman resminya.

(CNBC)

 

[Indos]

Not saying that there were no bribes involved as that's just business as usual here. What really irks off corruptors when it comes to US deals is that it is harder to misappropriate, mark up, or redirect funds when everything is laid out in a public press release and an online copy of the contract can be looked up or obtained using a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request to the US State Department.

https://www.antaranews.com/berita/1...-osprey-mantan-sekjen-kemhan-klaim-sepihak-as

The funny thing about this article that I know and not a lot of people do is that this Heavy Lift contract has been a back and forth issue with MinDef and the US as far back as 2018 and beyond. But this article makes it look like there was no serious intent to purchase them when I know for a fact that they only started to talk to Bell after a few hiccups in the discussions with Boeing.

Thats why public (media and expert) should be critical on the price to know whether there is indeed mark up. And from I read on that US official statement about the contract value, the explanation is still quite general and we dont know the exact detail yet.

From previous experience on that AW helicopter deal, many (in PDF) has raised that there is corruption going on, but as always some members here always support the acquisition and blaim other member who raised the issue as not really understand the real specs and so on and so on. And it is proven that it has already become corruption case and look like some big man are involved since BPK is weirdly not yet audited the acquisition and KPK is still waiting BPK valuation until Today.

And those Apache corruption is about 12 million USD is quite big. How come he can get that 12 million USD without using markup method ?