Indonesia Defence Forum

[Alex898]

You're going to wait a lot longer than 2026 for the first jet. Delays is an inevitability when it comes to producing something as complex as a fighter jet.

yup, thats right, even fighter like Tejas needs much time to develop to meet Indian requirements. let alone 4.5++ gen fighter jet like KFX.

You cannot both have KFX and F 16 V simultaneously due to our budget constrain. We must choose one. If we buy F16 V it means the allocation for KFX/IFX is reduced significantly, and thus it will lead to our side abandoning KFX/IFX program.

but 2 Billion USD will be paid in 2020-2024 (4 fiscal budget year) right ? if the government could rebuild the economy after Covid,we can assume that the budget would be increased along the 2020-2024.

 

[Indos]

yup, thats right, even fighter like Tejas needs much time to develop to meet Indian requirements. let alone 4.5++ gen fighter jet like KFX.


but 2 Billion USD will be paid in 2020-2024 (4 fiscal budget year) right ? if the government could rebuild the economy after Covid,we can assume that the budget would be increased along the 2020-2024.

You cannot use only Tejas as an example, JF17 is made quite fast for example. Korean so far has good track record on their defense program.

It can be even paid in the span of 5 fiscal budget years, but yup, the cost will be paid gradually along the development period.

 

[Alex898]

Korean so far has good track record on their defense program.

then, lets just wait for the first prototype next year.

anyway, i still think they would cancel the viper procurement, the Su 35 is more likely to be cancelled because of the caatsa thing. besides we already start the program to upgrade existing falcon to modern standard (even to Viper standard based on some rumour). lets just wait till end of the year then.

 

[NEKONEKO]

F16 V should proceed. F16 V / F35.
KFX/IFX should continue.

 

[umigami]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1263285785354108928

Nothing got canceled due to Covid 19

 

[Nilgiri]

Similar thing also happen in India Air Force procurement lately, despite intense pressure coming from China and Pakistan, they now decide to push their local fighter program (Tejas Mark1, Tejas Mark2, AMCA) and scrap MRCA program which want to induct foreign fighters like F16/F18/Rafale and others.

More Rafale can be coming through alternate acquisition (since just 36 in first batch makes no sense).

The other foreign contenders (F-18, F-16, Mig, Gripen etc) are more or less cancelled now, you are correct.

Tejas and Tejas 2/MWF will make up squadron numbers....transition into AMCA with time.

 

[Cromwell]

Considering how many delays the F-35 program has had, what you said about the KFX is just wishful thinking at this point. It's not easy designing and building a fighter aircraft, let alone a 5th gen one, without major US assistance.

And yes, we do have to replace the Hawks as they are sorely outdated at this point. Like it or not, the government (with good reason) sees more sense in procuring more F-16's then waiting 15-20 years for a fighter that may or may not end up in our inventory. Regardless of what people say about salespeople or saying that I'm a salesman, my professional background is in defense. And it is my (and a lot of other defense professional's opinion) that to wait 15+ years for something that is sorely needed now (because newsflash, our neighbor to the north is not going to wait) all for the sake of national prestige is asinine.

Moral principles also have no place in defense. I don't know if you realize but these things happen all the time, and no one genuinely cares. Look at Canada, they were part of the F-35 program (and a higher tier partner than Singapore and Israel) but do you see them being operated by the RCAF? At the end of the day we're talking about weapons, there's no morality in it. And to say that it would affect private South Korean investment is laughable, why would private investors care about a defense deal between 2 governments? It would hardly affect their profits at the end of the day.

What you're going to see is articles like this, https://www.indomiliter.com/indones...ngsuran-proyek-jet-tempur-kfx-ifx/#more-74238, things such as the government blaming other factors into their inability to pay for the KFX costs. The government is not going to openly admit their pulling out, much like how they're not going to admit that they're cancelling the Su 35 procurement. It's all face. They're going to keep dragging their knuckles until they either find an acceptable cover for pulling out, or it drags on long enough that the other party complains and cancels the deal. Welcome to Realpolitik.

It's not just the delay but also the cost, this will spend more and in the end we're going to get a more costy 4.5th generation fighter while F-35 is already made available with lower cost. There's misconception about everything, people are mistaking benefits for prestige that's why Malaysian or Singaporean aviation industries fair better than us, we shouldn't even making just aircraft but being in global chain of aircraft spare parts & doing MRO business. I don't mind we cut off N-245 & R-80 as it's less profitable ( let's be realistic now, and less being naive and dramatic we live in a world where Boeing, Airbus, Embraer already dominate the market ). This KFX/IFX i think despite what forumers been thinking now, well it's already have a grim prospect in MoD. Btw from what i read there going to be 2 batches of F-16V procurement, we're not getting 2 squadrons at once

Some of this are unrealistic like SM-3, we're not going to get this. However those 8 frigates, we definitely going there. Rumours are we're up to 4 PKR 10514 ( we already have 2 and about getting another 2 ) and 4 Iver Huitfeldt ( 2 batch ) however another rumours spread we're getting all MBDA missiles for both Class ( Exocet mm40 B3 & MICA though the quantities differ for both class )

 

[striver44]

It's not just the delay but also the cost, this will spend more and in the end we're going to get a more costy 4.5th generation fighter while F-35 is already made available with lower cost. There's misconception about everything, people are mistaking benefits for prestige that's why Malaysian or Singaporean aviation industries fair better than us, we shouldn't even making just aircraft but being in global chain of aircraft spare parts & doing MRO business. I don't mind we cut off N-245 & R-80 as it's less profitable ( let's be realistic now, and less being naive and dramatic we live in a world where Boeing, Airbus, Embraer already dominate the market ). This KFX/IFX i think despite what forumers been thinking now, well it's already have a grim prospect in MoD. Btw from what i read there going to be 2 batches of F-16V procurement, we're not getting 2 squadrons at once
View attachment 640725

View attachment 640726 View attachment 640727
Some of this are unrealistic like SM-3, we're not going to get this. However those 8 frigates, we definitely going there. Rumours are we're up to 4 PKR 10514 ( we already have 2 and about getting another 2 ) and 4 Iver Huitfeldt ( 2 batch ) however another rumours spread we're getting all MBDA missiles for both Class ( Exocet mm40 B3 & MICA though the quantities differ for both class )

So no aster then.....

 

[Raduga]

It's not just the delay but also the cost, this will spend more and in the end we're going to get a more costy 4.5th generation fighter while F-35 is already made available with lower cost. There's misconception about everything, people are mistaking benefits for prestige that's why Malaysian or Singaporean aviation industries fair better than us, we shouldn't even making just aircraft but being in global chain of aircraft spare parts & doing MRO business. I don't mind we cut off N-245 & R-80 as it's less profitable ( let's be realistic now, and less being naive and dramatic we live in a world where Boeing, Airbus, Embraer already dominate the market ). This KFX/IFX i think despite what forumers been thinking now, well it's already have a grim prospect in MoD. Btw from what i read there going to be 2 batches of F-16V procurement, we're not getting 2 squadrons at once
View attachment 640725

View attachment 640726 View attachment 640727
Some of this are unrealistic like SM-3, we're not going to get this. However those 8 frigates, we definitely going there. Rumours are we're up to 4 PKR 10514 ( we already have 2 and about getting another 2 ) and 4 Iver Huitfeldt ( 2 batch ) however another rumours spread we're getting all MBDA missiles for both Class ( Exocet mm40 B3 & MICA though the quantities differ for both class )

i heard that we get less viper but more quantity for the F-5 replacement (su-35 , Rafale) is that right ?

 

[kooppyyy]

Well too bad, it is still applicable. Before F-35 not every country can have their hand on F-15. Thailand as major ally non Nato, was refused to buy F-15 second hand in the 90's. I bet that Indonesia also had no chance at that time.
But now, with F-35 around, things have changed. Singapore got their advanced F-15 (later F-35) and Australia now has F-35 (heck their pilot even got his first 1,000 fly hours with F-35 already).
Indonesia has better opportunity to have F-15 too.

Have money? Get F-15.
"No money"? Get Viper.

All we need now is allocated budget and will power.

Worth noting that Thailand wasn't considered as MNNA until the early 2000s. Also, it wasn't RAAF pilot that reached 1000 hours, but rather the RAAF's airframe (A35-001)

So no aster then.....

Well MBDA produced Aster and CAMM too, although realistically it will probably be MICA with either Aster 15 or 30 (most probably Aster 15)

It's not just the delay but also the cost, this will spend more and in the end we're going to get a more costy 4.5th generation fighter while F-35 is already made available with lower cost. There's misconception about everything, people are mistaking benefits for prestige that's why Malaysian or Singaporean aviation industries fair better than us, we shouldn't even making just aircraft but being in global chain of aircraft spare parts & doing MRO business. I don't mind we cut off N-245 & R-80 as it's less profitable ( let's be realistic now, and less being naive and dramatic we live in a world where Boeing, Airbus, Embraer already dominate the market ). This KFX/IFX i think despite what forumers been thinking now, well it's already have a grim prospect in MoD. Btw from what i read there going to be 2 batches of F-16V procurement, we're not getting 2 squadrons at once
View attachment 640725

View attachment 640726 View attachment 640727
Some of this are unrealistic like SM-3, we're not going to get this. However those 8 frigates, we definitely going there. Rumours are we're up to 4 PKR 10514 ( we already have 2 and about getting another 2 ) and 4 Iver Huitfeldt ( 2 batch ) however another rumours spread we're getting all MBDA missiles for both Class ( Exocet mm40 B3 & MICA though the quantities differ for both class )

What I find laughable is that most people expecting KFX to turn out like the CN-235 project when Indonesia only contribute 20% to the whole KFX project.

 

[trishna_amṛta]

if the government could rebuild the economy after Covid,we can assume that the budget would be increased along the 2020-2024.

IF

 

[striver44]

TNI AL Akan Membeli 8 Attack Heli

11 Juni 2020



TNI AL membutuhkan 8 heli serang untuk mendukung Gerakan Kapal Ke Pantai (GKK) yang akan direalisasikan pada periode 2020-2024 (photo : USMC)

Pengembangan Kekuatan Penerbangan TNI Angkatan Laut ke Depan

Membahas Pengembangan kekuatan Pusat Penerbangan TNI Angkatan Laut (Puspenerbal) ke depan, maka perlu melihat kembali sejarah penerbangan Angkatan Laut di masa lalu yang telah merumuskan enam fungsi Penerbangan TNI Angkatan Laut yang terdiri dari intai udara taktis, anti kapal selam, anti kapal permukaan, pendaratan pasrat lintas helikopter, dukungan logistik cepat dan pengamatan laut.

Setelah masa perintisan, maka pada masa penerusan sampai dengan saat ini, beberapa pesawat udara yang pernah dimiliki pada era perintisan telah tua dan harus dihapus dari jajaran Penerbangan Angkatan Laut.

Selanjutnya mulai berdatangan pesawat udara patrol maritim jenis Nomad N-22/24 buatan Australia sebanyak 19 buah, Casa NC-212 buatan PT Nurtanio sebanyak 13 buah, helikopter BO-105 Bolkow buatan PT Nurtanio sebanyak sepuluh buah, helikopter Super Puma AS-332 buatan IPTN sebanyak dua buah, helikopter AKS Wasp AH-12A buatan Agusta Westland Inggris sebanyak sepuluh buah, pesawat angkut sedang jenis Buffalo DHC-5 buatan Kanada sebanyak dua buah, Helikopter NBell-212 dari Basurtanal satu buah, Helikopter NBell-412 sampai saat ini tercatat sebanyak delapan buah, pesawat latih jenis Bonanza F-33A buatan Amerika sebanyak dua buah, pesawat latih jenis Tampico TB-9 buatan Perancis, helikopter latih jenis colibri EC-120 B sebanyak tiga buah, Pesawat Casa NC-212 Patmar tiga buah, Pesawat latih Tobago TB-10 sebanyak lima buah, pesawat latih Bonanza G36 sebanyak sembilan buah, pesawat latih jenis Baron G58 sebanyak dua buah dan King Air 350i sebanyak satu buah.

Pengadaan 8 attack heli dan 6 pesawat angkut sedang

Sesuai dengan kebijakan strategis TNI Angkatan Laut, maka Penerbangan Angkatan Laut mulai menata kembali kebutuhan pesawat udara sesuai dengan fungsinya yaitu pengadaan CN-235 MPA sebanyak lima buah untuk menggantikan 19 unit Pesud Nomad yang sudah memasuki tahap disposed atau penghapusan, helikopter Panther AS565 MBe untuk anti kapal selam dan anti kapal permukaan sebanyak sebelas buah.

Beberapa jenis pesawat yang masih dalam proses perencanaan dan pengadaan antara lain heli dan pesawat angkut sedang direncanakan sebanyak enam buah, heli attack sebanyak delapan buah, dan hibah pesawat tanpa awak atau UAV dari Amerika Serikat sebanyak enam buah yang akan bergabung dalam skuadron baru yaitu Skuadron 700 PUTA.

Ke depan pengembangan kekuatan Penerbangan Angkatan laut tidak hanya pada pemenuhan kebutuhan pesawat udara sesuai dengan fungsi asasinya, namun pengembangan organisasi juga menjadi fokus dalam melengkapi kebutuhan operasional Penerbangan Angkatan laut

 

[Chestnut]

It's not just the delay but also the cost, this will spend more and in the end we're going to get a more costy 4.5th generation fighter while F-35 is already made available with lower cost. There's misconception about everything, people are mistaking benefits for prestige that's why Malaysian or Singaporean aviation industries fair better than us, we shouldn't even making just aircraft but being in global chain of aircraft spare parts & doing MRO business. I don't mind we cut off N-245 & R-80 as it's less profitable ( let's be realistic now, and less being naive and dramatic we live in a world where Boeing, Airbus, Embraer already dominate the market ). This KFX/IFX i think despite what forumers been thinking now, well it's already have a grim prospect in MoD. Btw from what i read there going to be 2 batches of F-16V procurement, we're not getting 2 squadrons at once
View attachment 640725

View attachment 640726 View attachment 640727
Some of this are unrealistic like SM-3, we're not going to get this. However those 8 frigates, we definitely going there. Rumours are we're up to 4 PKR 10514 ( we already have 2 and about getting another 2 ) and 4 Iver Huitfeldt ( 2 batch ) however another rumours spread we're getting all MBDA missiles for both Class ( Exocet mm40 B3 & MICA though the quantities differ for both class )

Would make sense on why they went for the Mk 41 if it mentions the SM-3. The Aster isn't really an ABM designed missile.

 

[Raduga]

Nagapasa & Ardadedali
Source : Submarines.id Instagram account

 

[182]

Uji Coba PT 76 Light Tank Amphibious Vehicle

Lumindo Artha Sejati

MUD LOVERS ...Yeaahh

Rally...

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