Indonesia Defence Forum

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Not possible. The KCR-60 platform is too small for that purpose unless limited range & smaller SHORAD system such as article i shared previously on Marlin WS 30mm & Mistral besides the whole purpose of KCR is for hit & run mission. You hit the larger enemy vessel with AshM missiles then speed up not to defend itself againts counterfire attacks.

Our KCR 60 has already had VSHORAD with its CIWS. For other protection against AShm its already use flare decoys.

 

[Raduga]

Sometimes i'm thinking myself maybe their project is already fishy from beginning but then Philippines itself has a habbit of making unrealistically small budget project with such a high expectation. I mean look at the 365 Millions US$ funding for 2 frigates yet they demand such high specs with all CAPTAS, VLS, etc and then recently the project which PT.DI hesitate to take, a proposal request to manufacture 6 NC-212i within 1 year completion, arms acquisition isn't like a vendor market, it takes time to get subsystems and engine from various suppliers and then build them into an aircraft so i suppose it's correct move by PT.DI to hesitate taking Philippines' order. 1 year for 6 NC-212i, we can't do what they request

what about our PKR ? i dont see any stern opening under the helipad for deploying CAPTAS

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Sometimes i'm thinking myself maybe their project is already fishy from beginning but then Philippines itself has a habbit of making unrealistically small budget project with such a high expectation. I mean look at the 365 Millions US$ funding for 2 frigates yet they demand such high specs with all CAPTAS, VLS, etc and then recently the project which PT.DI hesitate to take, a proposal request to manufacture 6 NC-212i within 1 year completion, arms acquisition isn't like a vendor market, it takes time to get subsystems and engine from various suppliers and then build them into an aircraft so i suppose it's correct move by PT.DI to hesitate taking Philippines' order. 1 year for 6 NC-212i, we can't do what they request

Normally it takes 3 to 4 years, due to wait the engines and parts from the third party.

 

[Cromwell]

what about our PKR ? i dont see any stern opening under the helipad for deploying CAPTAS

Well while Philippines defense forums debating themselves on not getting TACTICOS CMS or VLS in the end we have them right ?

https://www.janes.com/article/87175...-iver-huitfeldt-class-for-frigate-acquisition

Well this article didn't say " We take interest on Iver " but " a variant of Iver " so let's see

The new South Korean KSS-III Submarine have K-VLS onboard if you are into that thing, South Korea have complete set of KSS-I (Chang Bogo/ U209 1400 ton), KSS-II (U214) and KSS-III (local made with AIP+VLS). Mind you that South Korea got missile and VLS technology from Russia, just google the Hyunmoo missile if you wanna see it yourself. That is why i think Indonesia picking South Korea for it's submarine fleets' modernization is a good move, the rest depends on our will and budget.

KCR platform have some potential, don't just see it's small size or that it's not a corvette, but that if they did able to do their job well or not. Last time i heard about them is the deal to MBDA to provide missiles (Exocet) and Terma's CMS for newer KCRs, so i think we could expect more improvement to the KCR platform (at least it's no longer Chinese jeroan). I propose KCR equipped with some cheap 30mm CIWS in place of main gun (or 57mm multipurpose whatever), Simbad RC and 4xNSM (or Exocet), it's probably the best option available for KCR.


Replace the upper 76mm gun with 30mm CIWS, and the lower gun with bigger 127mm cannon, add TASS for better ASW capability, replace harpoon with NSM or any better western AShM, if possible keep the Mk41 and Mk56 as every other choices is simply out of question.

Also, revive the National Corvette program or at least get serious with the PKR/Frigate shit


We got LPD and Submarine deals from South Korea, we were not disappointed by them. The Pinoys asked more for less, that's why they got into such a problem.

Oh well such an interesting modifications if what you wish for actually happens in future but idk, i mean what's the future of Van Speijk replacement projects, still blurry to me.

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Well while Philippines defense forums debating themselves on not getting TACTICOS CMS or VLS in the end we have them right ?

https://www.janes.com/article/87175...-iver-huitfeldt-class-for-frigate-acquisition

Well this article didn't say " We take interest on Iver " but " a variant of Iver " so let's see

Yup a variant of iver, not exactly the same due to different ordnance.

 

[Raduga]

The new South Korean KSS-III Submarine have K-VLS onboard if you are into that thing, South Korea have complete set of KSS-I (Chang Bogo/ U209 1400 ton), KSS-II (U214) and KSS-III (local made with AIP+VLS). Mind you that South Korea got missile and VLS technology from Russia, just google the Hyunmoo missile if you wanna see it yourself. That is why i think Indonesia picking South Korea for it's submarine fleets' modernization is a good move, the rest depends on our will and budget.

KCR platform have some potential, don't just see it's small size or that it's not a corvette, but that if they did able to do their job well or not. Last time i heard about them is the deal to MBDA to provide missiles (Exocet) and Terma's CMS for newer KCRs, so i think we could expect more improvement to the KCR platform (at least it's no longer Chinese jeroan). I propose KCR equipped with some cheap 30mm CIWS in place of main gun (or 57mm multipurpose whatever), Simbad RC and 4xNSM (or Exocet), it's probably the best option available for KCR.


Replace the upper 76mm gun with 30mm CIWS, and the lower gun with bigger 127mm cannon, add TASS for better ASW capability, replace harpoon with NSM or any better western AShM, if possible keep the Mk41 and Mk56 as every other choices is simply out of question.

Also, revive the National Corvette program or at least get serious with the PKR/Frigate shit


We got LPD and Submarine deals from South Korea, we were not disappointed by them. The Pinoys asked more for less, that's why they got into such a problem.

type 214 ? probably , KSS-III (alias dosan ahn chang ho) ? i don't think so , they rather too expensive around 900$ million , why not swedish A26 ? its around 400$ million , kinda fit for our price

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Well while Philippines defense forums debating themselves on not getting TACTICOS CMS or VLS in the end we have them right ?

https://www.janes.com/article/87175...-iver-huitfeldt-class-for-frigate-acquisition

Well this article didn't say " We take interest on Iver " but " a variant of Iver " so let's see


Oh well such an interesting modifications if what you wish for actually happens in future but idk, i mean what's the future of Van Speijk replacement projects, still blurry to me.

Van Speijk actually has armament like ordinary corvettes nowadays, thus I will not surprised if van speijk to be replace with corvettes.

While for real fregat is not for Van Speijk replacement, but for the new capability ship class viz AAW fregat forwhich our Van Speijk have limited ability on it.

 

[Cromwell]

type 214 ? probably , KSS-III (alias dosan ahn chang ho) ? i don't think so , they rather too expensive around 900$ million , why not swedish A26 ? its around 400$ million , kinda fit for our price

We already invest in billions for Type-209 dockyards in PT.PAL so we can get to locally assemble and finally manufacture them, training & exercise for Type-209 which cost money also simulator from Rheimetall for Type-209 which also cost money so diversifying outside existing Type-209 Class is ill advised for now

 

[HellFireIndo]

type 214 ? probably , KSS-III (alias dosan ahn chang ho) ? i don't think so , they rather too expensive around 900$ million , why not swedish A26 ? its around 400$ million , kinda fit for our price

Swedish subs doesn't see that much export experience, while the German U214 is literally among the most popular export Submarine model today, probably along with the Kilo-class, so getting U214 make more sense for us if we are getting another submarine model, as again U214 is literally the successor of U209 (Chang Bogo is an improved U209, and Nagapasa-class is an improved Chang Bogo), U214 is the best deal among it's peer if we are talking specifically about TNI AL's needs. South Korea already khatam about all of this Submarine things, that's why they are getting complete line of U209 (basic modern sub), U214 (AIP), and KSS-III (AIP+VLS), we could build a formidable Submarine fleet in the region by just copying them in this regard tbh.

Also, if you are curious about my keen interest in South Korean Naval products, here some videos, make some coffee, sit and enjoy watching :

 

[Raduga]

We already invest in billions for Type-209 dockyards in PT.PAL so we can get to locally assemble and finally manufacture them, training & exercise for Type-209 which cost money also simulator from Rheimetall for Type-209 which also cost money so diversifying outside existing Type-209 Class is ill advised for now
View attachment 569284

understandable

 

[Gundala]

The new South Korean KSS-III Submarine have K-VLS onboard if you are into that thing, South Korea have complete set of KSS-I (Chang Bogo/ U209 1400 ton), KSS-II (U214) and KSS-III (local made with AIP+VLS). Mind you that South Korea got missile and VLS technology from Russia, just google the Hyunmoo missile if you wanna see it yourself. That is why i think Indonesia picking South Korea for it's submarine fleets' modernization is a good move, the rest depends on our will and budget.

KCR platform have some potential, don't just see it's small size or that it's not a corvette, but that if they did able to do their job well or not. Last time i heard about them is the deal to MBDA to provide missiles (Exocet) and Terma's CMS for newer KCRs, so i think we could expect more improvement to the KCR platform (at least it's no longer Chinese jeroan). I propose KCR equipped with some cheap 30mm CIWS in place of main gun (or 57mm multipurpose whatever), Simbad RC and 4xNSM (or Exocet), it's probably the best option available for KCR.

Oh wow, I know about SAM/S350 they work with Russia. Surely didnt know about Hyunmoo until now. Thank you for bringing it up. Im down to whoever can benefit us on technology transfer, even with Israel. But yea, we probably need KSS-III tonage type with VLS+AIP locally build.

KCR do have some potential, but the current design and condition it kinda stuck being "not that fast" boat with missile capability. Endurance comes in as problem as well. Tho I do agree by replacing main gun witn CIWS for its own air protection and others. As far as Chinese Jeroan, well Navy is famous for its jeroan variants. I cant recall how many type of CMS we have. They seem to have issues on being constant on what they want, what they using and how the gonna use it. In this area Air Force is in better shape.

 

[Nike]

but last month south korea (specifically HHI) made Pinoy got disappointed with their false promise of their frigate specification

Pinoy deserved it, their procurement programme is not honest too since the beginning. They kinda wanna to milking their partner dry, but instead got cheated back (well Korean is known for being cunning and shrewd in business) and Indonesian people and businessman (especially our top notch negotiator and business people) is a more shrewder and like an old fox compared to Korean , calm but full of surprise.

 

[barjo]

View attachment 569274
Well back around 15 years ago there was a project " Korvet Nasional " a collaboration between PT.PAL & Fincantierri to build 80m Corvette based on Commandanti Class OPV but then idk about the continuation & i suppose the programme is death, idk.
Meanwhile;
Infographic on Iver Huitfeldt ClassView attachment 569275 View attachment 569277 View attachment 569278
View attachment 569274 View attachment 569275 View attachment 569277 View attachment 569278

Kornas cooperation with Orizonte sistem navali, ficantieri join company. Its building design called mosaic, the offer is to build mosaic 1.7.... I agree with sis marine rouge. Somebody should kick that VOC boat maker in the ***
What is so called modular ship building is..
Some one do it vertically and other do it horisontally... Someone should figure out and shoot the marketing guy right away from beggining, we are being tricked

 

[Raduga]

Kornas cooperation with Orizonte sistem navali, ficantieri join company. Its building design called mosaic, the offer is to build mosaic 1.7.... I agree with sis marine rouge. Somebody should kick that VOC boat maker in the ***
What is so called modular ship building is..
Some one do it vertically and other do it horisontally... Someone should figure out and shoot the marketing guy right away from beggining, we are being tricked

what about turk ada class (MILGEM) , that thing was also a very capable corvette ? i still remember like in 2011 there was a rumour about procurement of ada class wandering around the net , i believe they would also give us a decent TOT and Cooperation , and now the news is pretty much unheard

 

[Cromwell]

Kornas cooperation with Orizonte sistem navali, ficantieri join company. Its building design called mosaic, the offer is to build mosaic 1.7.... I agree with sis marine rouge. Somebody should kick that VOC boat maker in the ***
What is so called modular ship building is..
Some one do it vertically and other do it horisontally... Someone should figure out and shoot the marketing guy right away from beggining, we are being tricked

Well since you mentioned MOSAIC family ships i searched Orizonte naval system and i found MOSAIC 1.5, 1.7, and even larger 2.0, 2.2, 2.4. Seems decent enough for me as a corvette