Indonesia Defence Forum

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan The current order is only three, but from what i know SAAB smell a large follow up order up to 36 units for TNI AL alone

You are talking about that Missile boats if yes 36 is good number to have

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Indonesian delegation visits submarine academy in Qingdao
Reporter: Han Bin 丨 CCTV.com

04-21-2014 17:41 BJT


Share this: Share on twitter Share on facebook Share on sinaweibo Share on email More Sharing Services



Full coverage: China’s Navy Marks 65th Birthday
On the sidelines of the ongoing West Pacific Naval Symposium in China’s eastern city of Qingdao, the Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy has arranged a number of exchange programs with foreign naval delegations. It hopes to expand its exchanges with foreign navies and establish a good image on the world stage. CCTV reporter Han Bin follows one delegation from Indonesia. They got the chance to visit one of the PLA’s key institutions, which has trained some 100,000 sailors and commanding officers for China’s submarine force.

Visiting the cradle of China’s submarine commanders. The PLA Navy Submarine Academy is receiving visiting cadets and officers from the Indonesia Naval Academy.

Rear Admiral Zhi Tianlong, president of PLA Navy Submarine Academy, said, "Such exchange is helpful to broaden students’ visions and enhance our friendship."

The academy is one of the military institutions that have opened up, receiving quite a number of foreign delegations. But for the Indonesian students, this is their first experience getting so close to Chinese training facilities. They say they’ve been very impressed.

Danu Umbara, Cadet of Indonesian Naval Academy, said, "This is very great, because in Indonesia, there’s not a submarine academy like this."

"People is very kind, and all the facilities are very good here," Andaru On, cadet of Indonesian Naval Academy.

Cabin for the training room, hyper pressure oxygen chamber, and submarine maneuver laboratories, These were all formerly guarded secrets of China’s submarine training system. All submarine sailors and commanding officers have gone through this kind of simulation test before serving the fleet.

Over the past few decades, China’s submarine forces have made remarkable progress through technological improvements in training over long-distances and combat capabilities.

Many Indonesian students expressed their willingness to study here one day, and learn from the Chinese officers. While the Chinese students say they also hope to visit Indonesia’s military facilities in the future.

Qu Bingchen, cadet of PLA Navy Submarine Academy, Qingdao, said, "I think it’s great that we can make friends and develop the friendship between our two navies."
The head of this delegation, Commander Bambang, praised the PLA’s growing openness, and hopes that one day, these cadets could come back as commanding officers of the Indonesian Navy.

Indonesian delegation visits submarine academy in Qingdao - CCTV News - CCTV.com English

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

Distribution plan for the upcoming Leopard Tanks into Army cavalry battalions

Total : 103 units

1st Cavalry Battalion 'Badak Ceta Sakti', Cijantung - Jakarta (Kostrad's 1st Division)
- Leopard 2A4 : 13 units
- Leopard 2 RI : 28 units

8th Cavalary Battalion 'Narasinga Wiratama', Beji - Pasuruan (Kostrad's 2nd Division)
- Leopard 2A4 : 28 units
- Leopard 2 RI : 13 units

Army Cavalry Training Center (Pusdikav), Padalarang, West Java
- Leopard 2A4 : 1 unit
- Leopard 2 RI : 3 units

CAMB Cavalry Company, Sentul - West Java
- Leopard 2 RI : 13 units

Cavalry Company of Combat Training Center, Baturaja
- Leopard 2 RI : 4 units

My question is, since each of the 1st and 8th Cavalry battalion will receive 41 Leopard tanks in their inventory which is a full tank battalion strength, what will happen to the current mix of Scorpion and Alvis Stormer APC in their inventory now?
Are we going to have new cavalry battalion as a new home for these active armored vehicles?
Or maybe we can use it (along with the new Marder IFV) to raise a new mechanized infantry battalion.
Anyone here have information or opinions about this?

Many Indonesian students expressed their willingness to study here one day, and learn from the Chinese officers. While the Chinese students say they also hope to visit Indonesia’s military facilities in the future.
Qu Bingchen, cadet of PLA Navy Submarine Academy, Qingdao, said, "I think it’s great that we can make friends and develop the friendship between our two navies."

Hmm, these young cadets may spend their days learning about naval strategy and preparing themselves to command a warship but they speak like a diplomat

 

[katarabhumi]

@Jakartans@PkDef .. no Leopard for Kalimantan?

 

[nufix]

^^the ****? no tank's being put to the border?

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

^^the ****? no tank's being put to the border?

Yah padahal tak kira buat gebukin Tank Pendekarnya Polandia nanti kalo ada perang?

 

[nufix]

Yah padahal tak kira buat gebukin Tank Pendekarnya Polandia nanti kalo ada perang?

PT91M kan ditaro di semenanjung, lagian PT91M katanya cukup pake 105 APSFDS-T. Tapi tetep aja AMX udah diretro-upgrade kalo disuruh head to head sama tank macam PT91 hasilnya bisa ketebak.

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

According the updated news, the Army Chief of Staff said the deployment of Leo to Malaysian border currently under evaluation whether it will be permanent deployment or just tactical.
After all, we are still waiting for the new LST 117m currently under construction in PT. PAL to move these Leopard tanks all across our archipelago
For the mean time i think we better deploy our new Korean-made 155mm howitzer and the marines RM70 grad 120mm multiple rocket launcher to defend the border.

 

[nufix]

According the updated news, the Army Chief of Staff said the deployment of Leo to Malaysian border currently under evaluation whether it will be permanent deployment or just tactical.
After all, we are still waiting for the new LST 117m currently under construction in PT. PAL to move these Leopard tanks all across our archipelago
For the mean time i think we better deploy our new Korean-made 155mm howitzer and the marines RM70 grad 120mm multiple rocket launcher to defend the border.

but they are stationary weapon system which require more than infantry with NLAW and VShorad to protect itself against the incoming enemy, and things will go sour when the incoming attack is led by an armored attack.

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

but they are stationary weapon system which require more than infantry with NLAW and VShorad to protect itself against the incoming enemy, and things will go sour when the incoming attack is led by an armored attack.

Lets not forget that the reason US army produce the M270 MLRS (along with Apache gunship and A-10 Warthog) for the first time is for defensive purpose against the superior quantity of Soviet tanks and armored vehicle in the days of Cold War.
Kalimantan front offering more difficult terrains, since any armored assault column must pass along thin line of opening or dirt road in the jungle.
This kind of terrain will create bottlenecks here and there to be exploited by the defending side as killing ground using concentrated artillery or rocket barrages.
If our army intel and strategy planners are doing their homeworks, they should be able to predict the potential entry point of enemy armored attack.
With Mi-35 and Apache gunship in our inventory, we should get the upper hand against such threat.

But like i said in the previous post, having 2 full tank battalion is one thing. Another thing is how to transport them across our archipelago. In this case we have to wait until the LST 117m class are ready.

Just look at the bright side, we are not going to war with our brothers across kalimantan border anytime soon since we both busy monitoring the movement of the Dragon in South China Sea.
At least, with the new Leopard/Marder, 4 Apache unit (1st batch), 6 Cougar Combat SAR helo, a dozen of retrofitted AMX-13 and a few F-16 'with Block 52 flavors', we will have a great spectacle on 5 October parade this year

 

[Jakartans@PkDef]

You don't easily visit someplace without selfie nowadays

Indonesian cadet : i will put this photo on Facebook and Tag you in it.
China cadet : Face what???

 

[katarabhumi]

But like i said in the previous post, having 2 full tank battalion is one thing. Another thing is how to transport them across our archipelago. In this case we have to wait until the LST 117m class are ready.

We can count on our RoRo vessels for dat.. we have plenty, don't we?

 

[MarveL]

China's Dismaying New Claims in the South China Sea
Indonesia will strengthen its military forces in the Natuna Islands now that Beijing wants to take them over.

By Moeldoko
April 24, 2014 7:27 p.m. ET

The South China Sea has become the focal point of maritime disputes in Asia. Two of the claimants are China and Taiwan, while the other four—Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Vietnam—are members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. While Asean as a grouping is not a party to the disputes, the organization has an interest in seeing them resolved peacefully and without affecting international freedom of navigation.

That is the crux of Indonesia's position as well. We are not a claimant in a dispute. But we will be affected should conflict break out in the South China Sea over interpretations of the so-called nine-dash line on Chinese maps laying claim to about 90% of that sea's 3.5 million square kilometer waters (or 1.35 million square miles). Given the economic and strategic significance of the sea, this is a pressing international issue that has come to involve the U.S. as well.

Indonesia is dismayed, therefore, that China has included parts of the Natuna Islands within the nine-dash line, thus apparently claiming a segment of Indonesia's Riau Islands province as its territory. An image showing the line features in newly issued Chinese passports. The affected archipelago is off the northwest coast of Borneo.

The Indonesian military has decided to strengthen its forces on Natuna. We will need also to prepare fighter planes to meet any eventuality stemming from heightened tensions on one of the world's key waterways.

Militaries, in Indonesia as elsewhere, prepare for contingencies as a matter of course. What we are hoping for, however, is the ability of the region's political and diplomatic leadership to negotiate a solution without the use or threat of force. In other words, we believe in a zero-war policy for the South China Sea, as we do for the wider Asian-Pacific region.

This policy reflects Indonesia's key interests. President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono visualizes Indonesia's foreign policy as being based on having a million friends and no enemies. In that spirit, Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa has conceptualized the doctrine of a "dynamic equilibrium," which invites the major powers to participate in a cooperative framework on which an inclusive regional architecture can be built.

It is only within a cooperative architecture that Indonesia realistically can pursue a free and active foreign policy. Instead of belonging to a strategic camp, which might afford the country some security but at the cost of constraining its options, Indonesia wishes to preserve its strategic autonomy. Autonomy would enable us to lend our weight to international forces that enhance peace, stability and prosperity in the region.

We are not naïve. We know that the major powers must find it in their interests to keep the peace, and only then can peace prevail. I believe that it is in the national interests of China and the U.S. to cooperate in keeping the peace in the South China Sea and the Asian-Pacific region in general. Their bilateral relationship is so important, to them and to Southeast Asian countries, that it does not make sense to let the South China Sea issue drive them apart.

For China, its behavior in the South China Sea will define broader perceptions of its intentions as a rising power. A zero-war policy adopted by Beijing would give its smaller neighbors confidence that Beijing indeed does believe in peaceful development. An assertive China that rewrites the status quo through displays of military strength would have the opposite effect. Southeast Asian countries would not welcome the appearance of a sphere of influence in the region tied to the military rise and leadership aspirations of any country.

For the U.S., its approach to the maritime disputes will determine the credibility that it has with its allies and strategic partners. However, Indonesia certainly does not wish to see the evolution of an American policy that gives China reason to suspect the surreptitious creation of a coalition of countries aimed at encircling it militarily. Thus, it is important that the U.S. pivot to the Indo-Pacific does not translate into a sphere of influence that seeks to exclude China from regional affairs.

Concepts such as the balance of power, spheres of influence and buffer zones belong to the 19th century and the European model of great-power politics. Two world wars, the Cold War and the emergence of nuclear-weapons states are proof enough that those concepts contain the seeds of ruin.

A zero-war policy might appear to be excessively hopeful, but it is realistic. It serves the interests of Asia's major powers by contributing to a benign strategic environment that allows them to grow together and to settle their differences through negotiation and compromise. Indonesia would throw its diplomatic weight behind the creation of an Asian order based on the rejection of the threat or use of force.

Gen. Moeldoko is the commander in chief of Indonesia's armed forces.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...9515692835172248.html?mod=WSJ_LatestHeadlines

 

[Harkness]

24 Apr 2014 - 4:35pm
Sacking navy captain harsh: Indonesia
Indonesia's chief navy spokesman says Australia's chief of navy visited Indonesia personally to apologise for incursions into Indonesia's waters.

Source AAP

UPDATED YESTERDAY 4:38 PM
Indonesia's chief navy spokesman believes sacking an Australian navy captain whose vessel breached Indonesia's territory is severe, if it really was an innocent navigational error.

Commodore Untung Suropati has confirmed the Indonesian Navy was initially unaware of the six incursions, in December and January.

The Australian navy puts them down to navigational errors made through incorrect calculations of the boundaries, but has released only limited details of what occurred.

It's believed the breaches occurred during operations to turn back asylum seekers, a policy that was already unpopular in Jakarta.

Cdre Suropati says he doesn't know the circumstances, but thinks it would only be fair to sack the captain from his command if he knew where Indonesia's boundaries were and crossed anyway.

"If he knew and then he violated, then it's fair to be fired," he said.

"But if the commander did not know then he got fired, in my opinion that's not fair."

The disciplinary action was announced last week by Chief of Navy, Vice Admiral Ray Griggs.

A second captain will be administratively sanctioned and five others counselled in what Vice Admiral Griggs says isn't about punishment but upholding the navy's high standards.

Cdre Suropati also revealed Vice Admiral Griggs visited Indonesia to apologise in person for the breaches.

Defence confirmed the February 16 meeting was to inform Indonesia's Admiral Marsetio on the outcomes of its review.

Cdre Suropati says it was an "extraordinary" gesture of goodwill.

"In the context of the bilateral relationship, this rarely happens," he said.

The breaches came at an already tense time, with cooperation including joint border patrols halted after Indonesia learned Australia had been spying on its president.

Although it's "so far so good" with separate patrols, Indonesia's navy spokesman said he hopes a more strategic approach can resume soon.

Both nations are working on a six-point plan to restore cooperation.

sorry i cant post the source link

 

[Indos]

We can count on our RoRo vessels for dat.. we have plenty, don't we?

Ok, lets be more serious ... In my opinion, by having 4 Apache Guardian, it is quite enough to tackle Malaysian tanks there...as long as we can keep air superiority over the border area. But for me, personally, Malaysia is not a threat at all, its provocative move before is something that we need so much to build up our military capabilities ...

By putting our MBT in the border permanently, it can be look like we are in par with them or we are their potential enemy.....which is not a good policy politically, what we need is just to let our MBT practice there to prepare if something goes wrong in the future.

For me, Indonesia should aim something bigger in the future, around 2024-2030. Based on our potentials and financial institution prediction, it is very likely to happen, insyaALLAH. I bet all Indonesian members here know that kind of "very old prediction" that I try to mention here, don't you ...