Indonesia Defence Forum

[Indos]

(WEBINAR) From Weapons Procurement to Defence Investment

Alman Helvast is wrong by saying PTDI only can produce 48 IFX. The statement is not logic since Korean will be very happy if we can produce let say 200 IFX since 80 % of the profits will go to them ( due to their stake is 80 %). And Alman is also wrong by saying PTDI will not get 20 % profit since it is just a logical business wise that who ever invest 20 % development in a project so they will get 20 % profit from the sales. Not only money, but also PTDI human source are used in the development phase since 2011. It is just a very basic understanding which every one should have understood.

AH is some what acting like a sales agent of Rafale since the company consultant he is working is likely getting the fund from French company. It is actually where they very likely get the money to run the company. The CEO is like French if he talks in English. We can see his tendency when he twits in twitter.

This is why I always said that AH has good informant inside Indonesia Defense Minister and also Finance Minister, something that is not a rare capabilty if you have experience working as journalist and has many friends or channels inside the institutions that is related to your specialist as reporter/journalist. He is also quite good thinker but we should be keep being critical with what he said and put even more critical tendency if he talks something that is related to the competitor of Rafale or any French products ( since the consultant seems to focus on French defense products). KF 21/IFX is a competitor of our Mindef Rafale acquisition plan since we have limited budget to spend on MRCA program.

While PT LEN Industry cannot say anything about KF21/IFX since the project belongs to Defense Minister, the institution that currently serve as their main customer for defense products. Better be careful on making statement about that.

 

[Indos]

Madiun, East Java

TA-50 Golden Eagle

 

[Indos]

South Korea DAPA Minister, Gang Eun-ho, met with Meutya Hafid, Chairman of Commission 1 DPR (Indonesian Parliament) and several parliament members from Commission 1 where defense is one of the commission focus.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1458354832629125120

Translation:

"Annyeonghaseyo yeorobun! This morning, Commission I of the DPR RI met with HE Mr. Gang Eun-ho, DAPA (Minister of Defense Acquisition Program Administration Korea) to discuss efforts to improve bilateral relations between Korea and Indonesia, especially in the defense sector"

---------------------------------------------

Mr Gang then will be present in KF21/IFX negotiation that takes place in Jakarta, 9-11 November. The negotiation can be extended into Friday if necessary.

 

[Indos]

AlhamduliLLAH

S. Korea, Indonesia finalize fighter jet costs amid default rumors

(Defense Acquisition Program Administration)

By Choi Si-young

Published : Nov 11, 2021 - 18:32 Updated : Nov 11, 2021 - 19:24

South Korea and Indonesia reached an agreement Wednesday on the payment Indonesia would have to make for their joint fighter jet project after concerns for months that Jakarta could default on the deal to produce a cheaper, less-stealthy alternative to the US-made F-35.

The KF-21 program -- in which Indonesia seeks a 20 percent share and technology know-how while Korea holds the rest -- aims to mass produce jets as early as 2027, but the Southeast Asian nation had hardly paid its contributions to the project worth at least 8 trillion won ($6.7 billion).

A COVID-hit local economy was reportedly one of the reasons behind the delay, though Seoul denied that Jakarta had asked it to either cut its burden in half or approve a loan for its contributions and help build local production lines.

“Indonesia will make payments over the next five years until 2026, and thirty percent of that would be in-kind transfers,” South Korea’s Defense Acquisition Program Administration said, without elaborating.

The arms procurement agency said the two countries will discuss what goods or assets to use instead of cash at a separate meeting later, with one DAPA official saying they could involve natural resources.

In April, President Moon Jae-in hailed the prototype of the KF-21, known as Boramae, as the backbone of the Air Force that marks a new era of a more self-reliant military, at the unveiling ceremony.

The project, first conceived in 2001, gained traction in 2010 when Indonesia agreed to shoulder costs in exchange for technology transfer. But South Korea had since faced difficulties in securing key software from the US for its 4.5-generation warplanes, and payments from Indonesia.

Seoul had repeatedly played down rumors that Jakarta could walk off, saying a pullout would not affect the program. Korea expects to produce 120 jets, while Indonesia is responsible for making 48 jets and is given one prototype along with the technology know-how.

“We have a separate routine, so what we make here goes to our storage and what Indonesians build there goes to theirs,” a DAPA official said, though he declined to confirm the exact number of jets scheduled for production for security reasons.

The weapons buyer said 32 Indonesian workers are currently working here alongside Korean engineers, and the number will hit 100 by December. Indonesia represents Southeast Asia’s largest defense market.

By Choi Si-young (siyoungchoi@heraldcorp.com

S. Korea, Indonesia finalize fighter jet costs amid default rumors

South Korea and Indonesia reached an agreement Wednesday on the payment Indonesia would have to make for their joint fighter jet project after concerns for months that Jakarta could default on the deal to produce a cheaper, less-stealthy alternative to the US-made F-35. The KF-21 program -- in...

www.koreaherald.com

 

[Indos]

Now it is time to celebrate @Whizzack @nufix @182

 

[Indos]

Intermezzo

 

[Indos]

F 16 Patrolling in the morning

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460062625170001923

 

[Indos]

Older news but still relevant, as we only have 1.1 billion USD for MRCA program approved by MoF so better use it for F 16 V as it is intended to fill previous F 5 squadron.

The squadron is in Iswahyudi base where there are already F 16 C/D and F 16 MLU. It means the infrastructure and trained technicians are already ready. Weapons are ready to use (AMRAMM/Sidewinder/Maverick), while separate acquisition to buy more AMRAMM and Sidewinder have already been approved by Minister of Planning ( I believe MoF also has approved as well)

View attachment 791353

------------------------------------------------------

Lockheed Martin: F-16 Viper Combat Aircraft That Fits Indonesia's Needs​

Kompas.com - 21/05/2021, 16:09 WIB
View attachment 791355
F-16 Block 72 or nicknamed the Viper. (Lockheed Martin)

Lockheed Martin: F-16 Viper Pesawat Tempur yang Sesuai Kebutuhan Indonesia Halaman all - Kompas.com

Lockheed Martin berbicara tentang kesempatan F-16 Block 72 menjadi bagian dari TNI-AU, di tengah rencana pemerintah membeli jet tempur lain. Halaman all

tekno.kompas.com

Just to clarify, 1.1 billion USD which is approved by Minister of Finance is for total foreign loan, not MRP as suggested by an Indonesian member in other forum. It is also what is stated by Alman Helvas repeatedly. Rafale acquisition program has been there since early 2021 as shown by an Air Force event ( January or February) and both Minister of Planning and Minister of Finance havent approved Rafale acquisition program in their April decision which is revealed by AH and also Jane Defense who has read the approved program document from their sources.

The 1.1 billion USD for total foreign loan for MRCA program (2020-2024) is actually a slashed from 1.6 billion USD approved by Minister of Planning for total foreign loan for MRCA program (2020-2024). The total foreign loan approval for Air Force has been presented by Air Force commander and it is posted in their official Youtube channel in the beginning of 2021. It is based on approved foreign loan by Minister of Planning, but it hasnt passed Minister of Finance office yet who has veto right to slash the figure further. I have posted the screenshot from the YT channel in this thread in early 2021. Minister of Finance then slashed it further into 1.1 billion USD ( base on AH statement in his article in CNBC Indonesia and other social platforms).

FREEM acquisition is also not yet approved by both vital ministers in relation to budget ( once again comes from AH), so not yet an effective contract, similar like what happen with Indonesia reported Rafale contract.

Basically this 1.1 billion USD foreign loan approval for MRCA program in Jokowi second term ( 2020-2024) is a replacement from SU 35 acquisition program that has similar figure. So as Minister of Planning and Minister of Finance in first Jokowi period have approved 1.1 billion USD acquisition for 11 SU 35 planes and associated equipment/spares/training, it makes them much easier to approve similar program with similar figure in Jokowi second term acquisition program while cancelling SU 35 acquisition program due to CAATSA from USA

 

[Indos]

I want to post it once more. Indonesian Air Force F 16 planes doing patrolling in the morning

I believe 1.1 billion USD total foreign loan is enough for a squadron of F16 V to fill our F 5 squadron in Madiun, East Java. It is the pressing needs for Indonesian Air Force at the moment. All the infrastructure, trained technicians, and trained pilots have already been there, including the weapons.

F 16 V also has additional fuel tank attached on its body which will make them able to reach Natuna directly from Madiun and go back to base in Madiun without refueling if we ordered them. The operation cost is also much cheaper than double engine Rafale and F 15 EX. Lockheed Martin also has offered F 16 upgrade program into V standard for our 33 F 16 if we want to upgrade it further maybe after 2030's. As current MLU and upgrade F 16 program conducted in Indonesia, so future upgrade program would possibly be conducted in Indonesia as well.

The F-16 Block 72 for Indonesia: The Ideal Bridge to 5th Gen Capabilities

The F-16 Block 72 is the latest version of the F-16 and delivers cutting-edge technology to the Indonesian Air Force (IDAF) in the most advanced F-16 configuration on the market today.

www.lockheedmartin.com

It is the cheapest and most effective option to take while we are waiting KF21/IFX to complete its development program in 2026 (inshaAllah) and make KF 21/IFX our backbone fighters in the future, just like what Jokowi has stated when he was present in KF21 roll out ceremony in South Korea via video conference.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460062625170001923

 

[Whizzack]

I want to post it once more. Indonesian Air Force F 16 planes doing patrolling in the morning

I believe 1.1 billion USD total foreign loan is enough for a squadron of F16 V to fill our F 5 squadron in Madiun, East Java. It is the pressing needs for Indonesian Air Force at the moment. All the infrastructure, trained technicians, and trained pilots have already been there, including the weapons.

F 16 V also has additional fuel tank attached on its body which will make them able to reach Natuna directly from Madiun and go back to base in Madiun without refueling if we ordered them. The operation cost is also much cheaper than double engine Rafale and F 15 EX. Lockheed Martin also has offered F 16 upgrade program into V standard for our 33 F 16 if we want to upgrade it further maybe after 2030's. As current MLU and upgrade F 16 program conducted in Indonesia, so future upgrade program would possibly be conducted in Indonesia as well.

The F-16 Block 72 for Indonesia: The Ideal Bridge to 5th Gen Capabilities

The F-16 Block 72 is the latest version of the F-16 and delivers cutting-edge technology to the Indonesian Air Force (IDAF) in the most advanced F-16 configuration on the market today.

www.lockheedmartin.com

It is the cheapest and most effective option to take while we are waiting KF21/IFX to complete its development program in 2026 (inshaAllah) and make KF 21/IFX our backbone fighters in the future, just like what Jokowi has stated when he was present in KF21 roll out ceremony in South Korea via video conference.

View attachment 793725

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460062625170001923

On the contrary, in my opinion it's now actually more prudent for us to get the Rafale ASAP, and not the F-16V, now that we have fully re-committed ourselves to the KF-21 project...

Your reasoning regarding the available budget, existing facilities, familiarity with Pilots and technicians are mostly correct of course.. though I would add that the F-16V is already a very different beast compared to our existing F-16 fleet that we will still need to upgrade or add more facilities, re-train our pilots and technicians to be able to operate and maintain the Viper properly... however looking through the geostrategic and diversification aspect, getting F-16V and KF-21 will actually make us too dependent on the US and their whims... Let's face it, KF-21 although is nominally a Korean product, uses a lot of US tech, components and knowhow.. LM is also major partner for KAI.. which means the US has a lot of veto power over that jet... buying that jet is almost no different to buying a US jet, in some ways it's probably worse... while buying a US jet will get the buyer some goodwill from the US, buying the KF-21 won't, but the buyer will still face the same restrictions as buying and operating a US jet... on the other hand I support the KFX project as it gives us hands on experience in designing and building a fighter jet from scratch.

And that is why, in keeping with our diversification strategy of not putting all our eggs in one basket, I don't agree us getting Vipers... we need the Rafale not only for it's capabilities but also for diversification purposes... in the medium future (2030's) I would like to see our F-16s replaced by KF-21s, and our Sukhoi fleet replaced by Rafale... however if we still need to buy a US fighter, then we should insist on getting the F-15 Eagle II and not the Viper... Viper won't be giving us any new capabilities compared to KF-21 or Rafale... That being said, I hope we can upgrade all our existing F-16s to (or close to) Viper standard if possible...

 

[Indos]

On the contrary, in my opinion it's now actually more prudent for us to get the Rafale ASAP, and not the F-16V, now that we have fully re-committed ourselves to the KF-21 project...

Your reasoning regarding the available budget, existing facilities, familiarity with Pilots and technicians are mostly correct of course.. though I would add that the F-16V is already a very different beast compared to our existing F-16 fleet that we will still need to upgrade or add more facilities, re-train our pilots and technicians to be able to operate and maintain the Viper properly... however looking through the geostrategic and diversification aspect, getting F-16V and KF-21 will actually make us too dependent on the US and their whims... Let's face it, KF-21 although is nominally a Korean product, uses a lot of US tech, components and knowhow.. LM is also major partner for KAI.. which means the US has a lot of veto power over that jet... buying that jet is almost no different to buying a US jet, in some ways it's probably worse... while buying a US jet will get the buyer some goodwill from the US, buying the KF-21 won't, but the buyer will still face the same restrictions as buying and operating a US jet... on the other hand I support the KFX project as it gives us hands on experience in designing and building a fighter jet from scratch.

And that is why, in keeping with our diversification strategy of not putting all our eggs in one basket, I don't agree us getting Vipers... we need the Rafale not only for it's capabilities but also for diversification purposes... in the medium future (2030's) I would like to see our F-16s replaced by KF-21s, and our Sukhoi fleet replaced by Rafale... however if we still need to buy a US fighter, then we should insist on getting the F-15 Eagle II and not the Viper... Viper won't be giving us any new capabilities compared to KF-21 or Rafale... That being said, I hope we can upgrade all our existing F-16s to (or close to) Viper standard if possible...

I will try to respond this with some lengthy writing, I will try to see some free time to do it within this week, maybe in Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Zarvan]

I will try to respond this with some lengthy writing, I will try to see some free time to do it within this week, maybe in Saturday or Sunday.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460864952877535236

Can you tell what is going on here ?

 

[Indos]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460864952877535236

Can you tell what is going on here ?

It is already clear, read the twitter, he is now our new Armed Force Commander

Parliament visited General Andika Perkasa house to check on his wealth before giving approval to him

 

[Zarvan]

It is already clear, read the twitter, he is now our new Armed Force Commander

Parliament visited General Andika Perkasa house to check on his wealth before giving approval to him

I am not aware of the structure of your forces that is why I was confused. How many four star Generals are there. I am assuming one is head of Army and one is head of Navy and one is head of your Air Force.

 

[Indos]

I am not aware of the structure of your forces that is why I was confused. How many four star Generals are there. I am assuming one is head of Army and one is head of Navy and one is head of your Air Force.

He is the commander of Armed Force. He commands Army, Air Force, and Navy. We also have Army commander, Air Force commander, Navy commander. I think it is a universal structure for any Armed Force in the world.