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As much as we want the KFX program to continue, with recent developments we have to assume the worst and go with something that can be of immediate use for us while still have commonality with the platforms we have in service.
 
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will korea accept if indonesia , let's say , change their payment debt into a contract instead , maybe if we procure another 3-4 squadrons of FA-50 , korea will change their mind , and both side actually gain something .
 
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How about increasing our shares in KFX project and get more concession, local build and export rights, etc.
We are participating in development for block-1, maybe permission to develop it further on our own.
 
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How about increase our shares in KFX project and get more concession, local build and export rights, etc.
We are participating in development for block-1, maybe permission to develop it further on our own.
Not possible, it's T&C from the SK itself, even at first Turks want to contribute 50% on KFX project but got rejected by SK itself. In the end they decided to leave the program.

Our medium tank came amd equipped with falarick right?

It is diffrence system. How we used essm and mica in one ship ? (But in some brochure mk 41 can load with mbda missile)
It's because the rumored sam is between these two. I ask the same question with you why do even bother using 2 different VLS in one ship?
 
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Wow interesting reading, specially between chestnut and others about the US vs Rusia fighters. It never gets old isnt it? That talks remind me of something I promise @Cromwell couple of months ago about our Sukhoi as a obrolan di warung kopi dengan seorang teman. Keep in mind that this is just obrolan warung kopi with no facts nor data submitted, its just simply nongkrong, nge-gosip sambil ngupi. I think he somehow involved in our latest sukro deal (not the 35 one). Pls keep in mind that during those time Rusia prolly in a different state of economic as the seperation of those states really hit their fighter supply chain, naval engine and what not. They werent in good condition economically and prolly acting like kejar setoran kinda move. I only share some conversations.

Gw: "Itu beli pesawat ga pake senjata?"
Temen: "Budget kurang boss"

Gw: "Life cycle/service interval mesinnya pendek amat sih? Ga lu omelin tuh org rusky?"
Temen: "Yah kan lumayan jadi beli parts terus katanya"
Gw: "wasemm"
Temen: "hahahaha"

Gw: "Kalo umur mesinnya pendek kenapa ga beli simulatornya? biar hemat dikitlah"
Temen: "Rusky ga mau ngasih (ga mau jual), kata mereka kita harus punya/beli dalam jumlah tertentu dulu baru dikasih (boleh dibeli) simulatornya
Gw: "buset deh segitunya kan kita dah punya lumayan banyak?"
Temen: (ngangkat bahu sambil nyengir doang)

What I can learned from the obrolan warung kopi was dealing with them is never been easy and have the tendency to be corrupted as the deal wasnt done like a direct G to G should be.

On the other note it might not represent what sukhoi company culture and value, as all the deal must be done via Rosoboron. They prolly isnt much Sukhoi as company can do in certain area; for example if say they have new and advanced jet components that can benefit the sukhoi user to pro-long their service interval. Rosoboron might reject the idea to sell for some reasons.
So @Cromwell I consider my promised is done :cheers:
 
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Wow interesting reading, specially between chestnut and others about the US vs Rusia fighters. It never gets old isnt it? That talks remind me of something I promise @Cromwell couple of months ago about our Sukhoi as a obrolan di warung kopi dengan seorang teman. Keep in mind that this is just obrolan warung kopi with no facts nor data submitted, its just simply nongkrong, nge-gosip sambil ngupi. I think he somehow involved in our latest sukro deal (not the 35 one). Pls keep in mind that during those time Rusia prolly in a different state of economic as the seperation of those states really hit their fighter supply chain, naval engine and what not. They werent in good condition economically and prolly acting like kejar setoran kinda move. I only share some conversations.

Gw: "Itu beli pesawat ga pake senjata?"
Temen: "Budget kurang boss"

Gw: "Life cycle/service interval mesinnya pendek amat sih? Ga lu omelin tuh org rusky?"
Temen: "Yah kan lumayan jadi beli parts terus katanya"
Gw: "wasemm"
Temen: "hahahaha"

Gw: "Kalo umur mesinnya pendek kenapa ga beli simulatornya? biar hemat dikitlah"
Temen: "Rusky ga mau ngasih (ga mau jual), kata mereka kita harus punya/beli dalam jumlah tertentu dulu baru dikasih (boleh dibeli) simulatornya
Gw: "buset deh segitunya kan kita dah punya lumayan banyak?"
Temen: (ngangkat bahu sambil nyengir doang)

What I can learned from the obrolan warung kopi was dealing with them is never been easy and have the tendency to be corrupted as the deal wasnt done like a direct G to G should be.

On the other note it might not represent what sukhoi company culture and value, as all the deal must be done via Rosoboron. They prolly isnt much Sukhoi as company can do in certain area; for example if say they have new and advanced jet components that can benefit the sukhoi user to pro-long their service interval. Rosoboron might reject the idea to sell for some reasons.
So @Cromwell I consider my promised is done :cheers:

They are quite pain in the ***, especially the local agent uhuk uhuk (trimar**) although i know them quite well as i was working there in the past , LoL. The comission is good actually :p::p:

but well their prospect is quite bleak since 2012 as Indonesia armed forces really really determined to adopt western Europe standard (Europe NATO) for our armed forces C4ISR , command control, logistick support and training modul standard. There is no way Russian system gaining traction anymore except for several small fry deals for APCs and artillery in which doesnt affect the whole picture at all.
 
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Gw: "Life cycle/service interval mesinnya pendek amat sih? Ga lu omelin tuh org rusky?"
Temen: "Yah kan lumayan jadi beli parts terus katanya"
Gw: "wasemm"
Temen: "hahahaha"

Gw: "Kalo umur mesinnya pendek kenapa ga beli simulatornya? biar hemat dikitlah"
Temen: "Rusky ga mau ngasih (ga mau jual), kata mereka kita harus punya/beli dalam jumlah tertentu dulu baru dikasih (boleh dibeli) simulatornya
Gw: "buset deh segitunya kan kita dah punya lumayan banyak?"
Temen: (ngangkat bahu sambil nyengir doang)

What I can learned from the obrolan warung kopi was dealing with them is never been easy and have the tendency to be corrupted as the deal wasnt done like a direct G to G should be.

On the other note it might not represent what sukhoi company culture and value, as all the deal must be done via Rosoboron. They prolly isnt much Sukhoi as company can do in certain area; for example if say they have new and advanced jet components that can benefit the sukhoi user to pro-long their service interval. Rosoboron might reject the idea to sell for some reasons.
So @Cromwell I consider my promised is done :cheers:

lol isn't this what a lot of people here have been saying too? and with this kind of attitude, some people still insist we get Su-35's and even say we can get MRO and everything?? :omghaha:
 
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When we are looking for European solution for our Navy (Itver class with their terma solution and link Y and link 16 system), Martadinata class with their Thales solution and link Y and link 16 standard, CN 235 MPA, navigation command center built with US assistance, array of US made fighter and other European/ South Korean Made fighter, tactical missile using germany Made ground radar (Astros) and so on it is no brainer to induct a strategic assets like fighter from outside of the sphere.
 
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images

How about increasing our shares in KFX project and get more concession, local build and export rights, etc.
We are participating in development for block-1, maybe permission to develop it further on our own.

Yes, from what I heard we can develop it further but of course the Korean IP should be respected. We will get the blue print any way since we contributed in design and will build some part in DI for all KFX/IFX and do the assembling and integration for IFX in DI. Just look on NC 212, it is developed by CASA fully but since we buy the license so we get the blue print. From that blue print and good relation with CASA, we can develop it into NC 212i and N219 is also developed from NC 212. N219 itself is totally own by DI. So if we want to build our own fighter later, we will not start from zero. Building our fighter in the future is not a daydreaming since we are projected to have 3.2 trillion USD GDP in 2034.

KFX is a decent fighter and have better range and speed than F35/J20 and have good prospect that our investment will come back later.
 
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Wow interesting reading, specially between chestnut and others about the US vs Rusia fighters. It never gets old isnt it? That talks remind me of something I promise @Cromwell couple of months ago about our Sukhoi as a obrolan di warung kopi dengan seorang teman. Keep in mind that this is just obrolan warung kopi with no facts nor data submitted, its just simply nongkrong, nge-gosip sambil ngupi. I think he somehow involved in our latest sukro deal (not the 35 one). Pls keep in mind that during those time Rusia prolly in a different state of economic as the seperation of those states really hit their fighter supply chain, naval engine and what not. They werent in good condition economically and prolly acting like kejar setoran kinda move. I only share some conversations.

Gw: "Itu beli pesawat ga pake senjata?"
Temen: "Budget kurang boss"

Gw: "Life cycle/service interval mesinnya pendek amat sih? Ga lu omelin tuh org rusky?"
Temen: "Yah kan lumayan jadi beli parts terus katanya"
Gw: "wasemm"
Temen: "hahahaha"

Gw: "Kalo umur mesinnya pendek kenapa ga beli simulatornya? biar hemat dikitlah"
Temen: "Rusky ga mau ngasih (ga mau jual), kata mereka kita harus punya/beli dalam jumlah tertentu dulu baru dikasih (boleh dibeli) simulatornya
Gw: "buset deh segitunya kan kita dah punya lumayan banyak?"
Temen: (ngangkat bahu sambil nyengir doang)

What I can learned from the obrolan warung kopi was dealing with them is never been easy and have the tendency to be corrupted as the deal wasnt done like a direct G to G should be.

On the other note it might not represent what sukhoi company culture and value, as all the deal must be done via Rosoboron. They prolly isnt much Sukhoi as company can do in certain area; for example if say they have new and advanced jet components that can benefit the sukhoi user to pro-long their service interval. Rosoboron might reject the idea to sell for some reasons.
So @Cromwell I consider my promised is done :cheers:
We live in vicious cycle of life and yet some people with their overly dramatic & over optimistic people still running around. Their days of daydreaming & overly yet unrealistic idealism are dead long ago, in this field only realists can make it works. We don't live by hope and theories, this field ( defence section ) requires decision made by logic & interests regardless principles

images

How about increasing our shares in KFX project and get more concession, local build and export rights, etc.
We are participating in development for block-1, maybe permission to develop it further on our own.
How many legs does the cat have ?
 
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Wow interesting reading, specially between chestnut and others about the US vs Rusia fighters. It never gets old isnt it? That talks remind me of something I promise @Cromwell couple of months ago about our Sukhoi as a obrolan di warung kopi dengan seorang teman. Keep in mind that this is just obrolan warung kopi with no facts nor data submitted, its just simply nongkrong, nge-gosip sambil ngupi. I think he somehow involved in our latest sukro deal (not the 35 one). Pls keep in mind that during those time Rusia prolly in a different state of economic as the seperation of those states really hit their fighter supply chain, naval engine and what not. They werent in good condition economically and prolly acting like kejar setoran kinda move. I only share some conversations.

Gw: "Itu beli pesawat ga pake senjata?"
Temen: "Budget kurang boss"

Gw: "Life cycle/service interval mesinnya pendek amat sih? Ga lu omelin tuh org rusky?"
Temen: "Yah kan lumayan jadi beli parts terus katanya"
Gw: "wasemm"
Temen: "hahahaha"

Gw: "Kalo umur mesinnya pendek kenapa ga beli simulatornya? biar hemat dikitlah"
Temen: "Rusky ga mau ngasih (ga mau jual), kata mereka kita harus punya/beli dalam jumlah tertentu dulu baru dikasih (boleh dibeli) simulatornya
Gw: "buset deh segitunya kan kita dah punya lumayan banyak?"
Temen: (ngangkat bahu sambil nyengir doang)

What I can learned from the obrolan warung kopi was dealing with them is never been easy and have the tendency to be corrupted as the deal wasnt done like a direct G to G should be.

On the other note it might not represent what sukhoi company culture and value, as all the deal must be done via Rosoboron. They prolly isnt much Sukhoi as company can do in certain area; for example if say they have new and advanced jet components that can benefit the sukhoi user to pro-long their service interval. Rosoboron might reject the idea to sell for some reasons.
So @Cromwell I consider my promised is done :cheers:
This is a obrolan warung kopi jg.. ga bisa dibuktiin..
Sebenarnya Sukhoi itu ada kepentingan bisnis golongan tertentu..
 
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Not possible, it's T&C from the SK itself, even at first Turks want to contribute 50% on KFX project but got rejected by SK itself. In the end they decided to leave the program.


It's because the rumored sam is between these two. I ask the same question with you why do even bother using 2 different VLS in one ship?
If we want essm just use mk41. Ig we want mica/camm use sylver. But in some LM brochure (likely i have share the link) there are some plan to use MK41 can launch the mbda missile.
But so far we know only ExLS capable launching camm missile from mk41 it is like an adaptor)

Can kfx became truck bom and have device like AMBER rack? Or maybe for more staltg using f18 style bomb bay

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cat have ?
Four leg. What leg next?
========================
 
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If we want essm just use mk41. Ig we want mica/camm use sylver. But in some LM brochure (likely i have share the link) there are some plan to use MK41 can launch the mbda missile.
But so far we know only ExLS capable launching camm missile from mk41 it is like an adaptor)

Can kfx became truck bom and have device like AMBER rack? Or maybe for more staltg using f18 style bomb bay

Theres no certain payload and weight specs for the KFX yet, but based from the general specs i found, the F/A-18E/F has a bit of an edge with more payload and weight capability than what is projected for the KFX

Yes, from what I heard we can develop it further but of course the Korean IP should be respected. We will get the blue print any way since we contributed in design and will build some part in DI for all KFX/IFX and do the assembling and integration for IFX in DI. Just look on NC 212, it is developed by CASA fully but since we buy the license so we get the blue print. From that blue print and good relation with CASA, we can develop it into NC 212i and N219 is also developed from NC 212. N219 itself is totally own by DI. So if we want to build our own fighter later, we will not start from zero. Building our fighter in the future is not a daydreaming since we are projected to have 3.2 trillion USD GDP in 2034.

KFX is a decent fighter and have better range and speed than F35/J20 and have good prospect that our investment will come back later.

We get what we pay for, have we been paying though?

And who said that KFX is faster and have better range than the J-20? The J-20 reportedly goes up to Mach 2+, KFX projected speed tops out at Mach 1.8 and we don't know its actual specs and capabilities until it flies and like I said before avionics, sensors and weapons specs are more relevant in today's world than that of flight characteristics, unless you agree with the fighter mafia that BVR is a fantasy, which a number of past conflicts as well as exercises have proven its not.

Although I agree with you that we need to be consistent and make a clear decision on what we want out of the KFX program, it is not an answer to the counter 5th gens, remember Block 1 is 4.5 gen fighter thats probably only going to reach IOC and maturity in the 2030's so we don't even know if the supposedly 5th gen Block 2 KFX is going to be made and operational, so by then we have to and should be looking into 5th gen options and not only relying on the KFX. Even in the ROKAF fleet KFX is meant to replace the lower tier F-4 and F-5 and complement the F-15K and F-35.
 
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