Indonesia Defence Forum

[NEKONEKO]

“Saat ini kami menunggu kunjungan balasan dari Pak (Menhan) Prabowo ke Korea untuk melanjutkan pembicaraan sebelumnya,” kata Dubes Kim.
https://www.antaranews.com/berita/1...rap-proyek-pesawat-kfx-ifx-segera-dilanjutkan

We can only wait.

Hm... are we playing the submarine card for kfx negotiation?

 

[Kansel]

what DD procurement ? the iver ?

as for the LPH , the BPC Mistral is also present in current rumour .

Iver is frigate Procurement, this one (DD) rumored to be omega or KDX III. At last it just nothing but a rumor. We can just wait maybe it's true or not.

 

[Raduga]

Iver is frigate Procurement, this one (DD) rumored to be omega or KDX III. At last it just nothing but a rumor. We can just wait maybe it's true or not.

well well , maybe shall wait for the jmp leak , KDX III sejong the great ? , which actually hold title as the most armed aegis destroyer (120 VLS) , i think that one have a slight chance to even enter tender program (too good to be true).

 

[Crunch]

http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2020/05/kapa-marinir-menemukan-anggarannya.html?m=1

It seems the marines will have another amphibious vehicle

 

[SgtGungHo]

I am not sure Indonesia understands that IF-X/KF-X prototypes are built in Korea and the Korean government has an option not to send one of those jets to Indonesia if the Indonesian government refuses to make the full payment that was agreed between two nations. Realistically, the project cannot be cancelled. The prototype already entered production.

However, I think IFX/KFX is not good for Indonesia which has one of the longest coastline. The fighter jet is expected to carry a 12,000lb fuel internally and Ferry range of 2,900km, a bit short than F/A F-18 Block E/F. Actual combat radius will be a bit shorter as well(The CR of F/A-18 E/F is about 750km). Now, the length of Indonesian coastline is 54,720 km, the third longest in the world. Let that sink in for a moment.

IF Indonesia can afford, I reckon they should buy fleets of F-16V. Forget about Rafael and other Russian alternatives. They are much more impractical for what Indonesia needs.

 

[Indos]

Better link to original source:

http://m.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200526000847

South Korea’s 18-trillion-won ($14 billion) fighter jet project is facing payment delays amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, while officials involved have assured it does not mean it is being shut down.

.

Dont know how reliable the report is, but the development cost seems to increase from 10 billion USD into 14 billion USD.

I am not sure Indonesia understands that one of IF-X/KF-X prototypes will be built in Korea and the Korean government has an option not to send the jet to Indonesia if the Indonesian government refuses to make the full payment that was agreed between two nations.

However, I think IFX/KFX is not good for Indonesia which has one of the longest coastline. The fighter jet is expected to carry a 12,000lb fuel internally and Ferry range of 2,900km, a bit short than F/A F-18 Block E/F. Actual combat radius will be a bit shorter as well(The CR of F/A-18 E/F is about 750km). Now, the length of Indonesian coastline is 54,720 km, the third longest in the world. Let that sink in for a moment.

IF Indonesia can afford, I reckon they should buy fleets of F-16V. Forget about Rafael and other Russian alternatives. They are much more impractical for what Indonesia needs.

That is why KFX/IFX is designed to carry external fuel tank while executing its mission, I think it is the requirement from Indonesia Air Force that become the fixed version of KFX/IFX if we see the official picture always put external fuel tank on KFX/IFX body.

Jokowi has lack of insight about the importance of research in Indonesia and has less ambitious than previous leaders in term of home grown high tech development, except Megawati which is the worst since she has plan to shutdown our aerospace industry in early 2000 which also come from the same party like him. I think Korea need to be patience with this administration since the next administration will likely to be hold by similar coalition which initiated KFX/IFX program.

Based on what I understand and read, 1 IFX prototype will be built in PT Dirgantara based on the previous deal (20 % parts made by Indonesia for all KFX/IFX, and for IFX the assembling and integration is also done in Indonesia).

The flight data of KFX prototype built by South Korea and tested in KAI will be shared with PT Dirgantara Indonesia so there is no need to send one prototype to Indonesia.

In order to decrease Indonesia financial burden as Jokowi administration wish, maybe Indonesia doesnt need to built another prototype in here and just let the engineers in South Korea do the testing since the data will still be shared with PTDI.

And for development purposes, 1 KFX/IFX can be bought for PTDI in the next administration since PTDI is serious in building its capability in fighter jet development and has prepared 5 test pilot which 4 of them come form Air Force pilots who currently undergoing aerospace engineering degree in Bandung Institute of Technology and 1 person from PTDI engineer who undergoing jet fighter training. All of them will undergo test pilot training in England if the study in Indonesia is completed.

 

[umigami]

 

[Nike]

Heavy deployment of TNI, police to discipline public during PSBB
26th May 2020

President Joko Widodo (Jokowi) made a press statement after inspecting the MRT station at Bundaran Hotel Indonesia in Jakarta on Tuesday (May 26, 2020). ANTARA/Indra Arief Pribadi/sh

Jakarta (ANTARA) - President Joko Widodo (Jokowi) spoke of heavily deploying military (TNI) and police personnel in crowded places as a disciplinary measure to ensure public adherence to the health protocol under the large-scale social restrictions (PSBB).

"Starting today, military and police personnel will be deployed at crowded places in a bid to discipline the public to follow the health protocol in accordance with the PSBB rules," the head of state noted after inspecting the Bundaran Hotel Indonesia MRT station in Jakarta on Tuesday.

Jokowi revealed that security personnel will be deployed in four provinces and 25 districts and cities that have imposed PSBB.

Public discipline in applying social restrictions is expected to flatten the curve of the novel coronavirus transmission in the country, he emphasized.

The government is considering restoring normalcy in public activities in a new normal order.

In preparation for a transition toward a new normal amid the lingering pandemic, the government is drafting protocols for various activities to ensure that people stay safe and healthy, Coordinating Minister for Economic Affairs, Airlangga Hartarto, noted.

During his visit to the MRT station, the president was accompanied by Jakarta Governor Anies Baswedan, Indonesian Police Chief Gen. Idham Azis, Indonesian Military Air Chief Marshall Hadi Tjahjanto, and President Director of MRT William Subandar.

Health Minister Terawan Agus Putranto has issued Ministerial Decree No. 328 of 2020 on the guideline to prevent and control COVID-19 transmission in offices and the industry amid the pandemic, as a guidance on implementation for a new normal.

In Jakarta, the country’s capital and COVID-19 epicenter, Governor Anies Baswedan has projected that normalcy would be restored and local residents would resume activities after the third round of large-scale social distancing (PSBB) ends.

"If we all remain disciplined, Jakarta can return to a new normal. Many people usually call it a new normal to refer to a new situation instead of a pre-pandemic situation," he remarked at the Jakarta City Hall on May 20.

However, Jakarta residents are expected to not lower their adherence to a disciplined lifestyle under new normal conditions, he emphasized.

“This (COVID-19 fight) is not yet over. I want to underscore that there is no relaxation. Do not think it is relaxed. Do not feel that it is over," he cautioned.

Achmad Yurianto, the government’s spokesperson for COVID-19 response, has also reiterated that amid the ongoing pandemic, the public will have to adapt to a new normal while being productive.

"We need to still be productive while prioritizing principles to protect ourselves from COVID-19. This then would become a fundamental behavioral change for all of us, and this is what we are calling the new normal," he explained.

He underscored the need for people to get accustomed to practicing health protocols, such as maintaining a safe distance from one another, wearing masks, and being selective about venturing outdoors. Related news: Comprehensive data needed to relax PSBB: spokesperson
Related news: President urges officials to enforce health protocols at markets
Related news: Police sanction 5,757 PSBB violators in Makassar, Gowa





EDITED BY INE

Reporter: Indra Arief P, Sri Haryati
Editor: Suharto
COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2020

https://en.antaranews.com/news/1493...f-tni-police-to-discipline-public-during-psbb

 

[nufix]

Jokowi has lack of insight about the importance of research in Indonesia and has less ambitious than previous leaders in term of home grown high tech development, except Megawati which is the worst since she has plan to shutdown our aerospace industry in early 2000 which also come from the same party like him. I think Korea need to be patience with this administration since the next administration will likely to be hold by similar coalition which initiated KFX/IFX program.

I dont think that this is exclusive to Jokowi only. This trend started with Soeharto already. He had 35 years to develop Indonesian military industry capability correctly, all he did was turning those industries to a proyek mercusuar with lack of planning regarding the development of complete domestic supply chain. How do I know this? My in law is an ex PTDI aircraft structure designer who now works for EADS.

Transfer of technology is completely useless if the ToT is centered around the grand design only. What you get is more like transfer of assembling technology. Jokowi's admin is economy-oriented and naturally, he sees this as a bad investment by previous admin since other than developing KFX, we have no real plan to develop industries surrounding it.

But still, scaling back from the agreement will make us look bad, so Jokowi must stick to the agreement or completely pull out from the program.

 

[Jatosint]

Heavy deployment of TNI, police to discipline public during PSBB
26th May 2020

President Joko Widodo (Jokowi) made a press statement after inspecting the MRT station at Bundaran Hotel Indonesia in Jakarta on Tuesday (May 26, 2020). ANTARA/Indra Arief Pribadi/sh

Jakarta (ANTARA) - President Joko Widodo (Jokowi) spoke of heavily deploying military (TNI) and police personnel in crowded places as a disciplinary measure to ensure public adherence to the health protocol under the large-scale social restrictions (PSBB).

"Starting today, military and police personnel will be deployed at crowded places in a bid to discipline the public to follow the health protocol in accordance with the PSBB rules," the head of state noted after inspecting the Bundaran Hotel Indonesia MRT station in Jakarta on Tuesday.

Jokowi revealed that security personnel will be deployed in four provinces and 25 districts and cities that have imposed PSBB.

Public discipline in applying social restrictions is expected to flatten the curve of the novel coronavirus transmission in the country, he emphasized.

The government is considering restoring normalcy in public activities in a new normal order.

In preparation for a transition toward a new normal amid the lingering pandemic, the government is drafting protocols for various activities to ensure that people stay safe and healthy, Coordinating Minister for Economic Affairs, Airlangga Hartarto, noted.

During his visit to the MRT station, the president was accompanied by Jakarta Governor Anies Baswedan, Indonesian Police Chief Gen. Idham Azis, Indonesian Military Air Chief Marshall Hadi Tjahjanto, and President Director of MRT William Subandar.

Health Minister Terawan Agus Putranto has issued Ministerial Decree No. 328 of 2020 on the guideline to prevent and control COVID-19 transmission in offices and the industry amid the pandemic, as a guidance on implementation for a new normal.

In Jakarta, the country’s capital and COVID-19 epicenter, Governor Anies Baswedan has projected that normalcy would be restored and local residents would resume activities after the third round of large-scale social distancing (PSBB) ends.

"If we all remain disciplined, Jakarta can return to a new normal. Many people usually call it a new normal to refer to a new situation instead of a pre-pandemic situation," he remarked at the Jakarta City Hall on May 20.

However, Jakarta residents are expected to not lower their adherence to a disciplined lifestyle under new normal conditions, he emphasized.

“This (COVID-19 fight) is not yet over. I want to underscore that there is no relaxation. Do not think it is relaxed. Do not feel that it is over," he cautioned.

Achmad Yurianto, the government’s spokesperson for COVID-19 response, has also reiterated that amid the ongoing pandemic, the public will have to adapt to a new normal while being productive.

"We need to still be productive while prioritizing principles to protect ourselves from COVID-19. This then would become a fundamental behavioral change for all of us, and this is what we are calling the new normal," he explained.

He underscored the need for people to get accustomed to practicing health protocols, such as maintaining a safe distance from one another, wearing masks, and being selective about venturing outdoors. Related news: Comprehensive data needed to relax PSBB: spokesperson
Related news: President urges officials to enforce health protocols at markets
Related news: Police sanction 5,757 PSBB violators in Makassar, Gowa

EDITED BY INE

Reporter: Indra Arief P, Sri Haryati
Editor: Suharto
COPYRIGHT © ANTARA 2020

https://en.antaranews.com/news/1493...f-tni-police-to-discipline-public-during-psbb

Dan diserang sama, what appeared to be, barisan SJW/leftist dengan narasi klasik: militeristik/orba/dwikora

https://twitter.com/x/status/1265153393519022086

 

[nufix]

Dan diserang sama, what appeared to be, barisan SJW/leftist dengan narasi klasik: militeristik/orba/dwikora

https://twitter.com/x/status/1265153393519022086

They still have the idea that military is only for the business of war. I very much want to see what they would say if their home region is hit by calamities and the first ones to respond is the military. I do hope they refuse the help since this will be another dwifungsi ABRI according to them wkwkwk.

 

[Nike]

I dont think that this is exclusive to Jokowi only. This trend started with Soeharto already. He had 35 years to develop Indonesian military industry capability correctly, all he did was turning those industries to a proyek mercusuar with lack of planning regarding the development of complete domestic supply chain. How do I know this? My in law is an ex PTDI aircraft structure designer who now works for EADS.

Transfer of technology is completely useless if the ToT is centered around the grand design only. What you get is more like transfer of assembling technology. Jokowi's admin is economy-oriented and naturally, he sees this as a bad investment by previous admin since other than developing KFX, we have no real plan to develop industries surrounding it.

But still, scaling back from the agreement will make us look bad, so Jokowi must stick to the agreement or completely pull out from the program.

historically there is several reasons why we don't build the whole chain supply units to support our defense industry. In 70's or 80's decade it was understandable as Indonesia economy at that time is too small to support such endeavor, not to mention our defense spending is always small relatively compared to our GDP ( and in turn made the demand is small in quantity) and our basic industrial infrastructure (either it is civilian or government owned industry) at the time is very weak and small. Economy, political and armed rebellion disaster during Soekarno reign (in medio 1950 trough 1960's) is very devastating for our industrial infrastructure as a whole and not to mention a lot of Nationalization project is bringing a lot of European trained expertise fleeing aboard (there is to read https://nasional.kompas.com/read/2012/09/05/11325735/Lindeteves..Pabrik.Baja.Masa.VOC ) and thus ruined the already established industrial companies who already established in Nusantara since VoC era.

Right now, with Indonesia large economy structure (1,2 trillion US dollar strong GDP), large population pool with millions educated, young, and well trained worker in many industrial sector (like in steel, automotive, aviation, shipyard, chemical, petro chemical and other related industries) and continue to grow defense spending, the time is ripe for us to starting to building large supply chain of military industrial products and subsystem.

 

[nufix]

historically there is several reasons why we don't build the whole chain supply units to support our defense industry. In 70's or 80's decade it was understandable as Indonesia economy at that time is too small to support such endeavor, not to mention our defense spending is always small relatively compared to our GDP ( and in turn made the demand is small in quantity) and our basic industrial infrastructure (either it is civilian or government owned industry) at the time is very weak and small. Economy, political and armed rebellion disaster during Soekarno reign (in medio 1950 trough 1960's) is very devastating for our industrial infrastructure as a whole and not to mention a lot of Nationalization project is bringing a lot of European trained expertise fleeing aboard (there is to read https://nasional.kompas.com/read/2012/09/05/11325735/Lindeteves..Pabrik.Baja.Masa.VOC ) and thus ruined the already established industrial companies who already established in Nusantara since VoC era.

Right now, with Indonesia large economy structure (1,2 trillion US dollar strong GDP), large population pool with millions educated, young, and well trained worker in many industrial sector (like in steel, automotive, aviation, shipyard, chemical, petro chemical and other related industries) and continue to grow defense spending, the time is ripe for us to starting to building large supply chain of military industrial products and subsystem.

GDP was not really the reason. The reason is because the government did not see military industries as part of economic drivers and still nowadays. Military industry is still seen as source of pride and legitimation for the ruling person/party. That is the reason why so military industries in Indonesia is not that well integrated to the other sectors because there is no incentives in that for the other sectors to cater to Indonesian military industries. It does not really matter even if our GDP is 3 trillions.

Korean defense industry is a perfect example of an integrated military industries. It gives incentives for other sectors to create military department that focuses on satisfying military industries' needs. And it does not stop there, a military-industrial complex is also built to keep the money rotating. That is still missing in Indonesia as TNI high ranking officials are often still acting as Sales Rep. for foreign manufacturers.

So you see, what we lack is a plan and system that will support an organic growth of arm industry. Arm industry should be treated like any other industry.

 

[Nike]

GDP was not really the reason. The reason is because the government did not see military industries as part of economic drivers and still nowadays. Military industry is still seen as source of pride and legitimation for the ruling person/party. That is the reason why so military industries in Indonesia is not that well integrated to the other sectors because there is no incentives in that for the other sectors to cater to Indonesian military industries. It does not really matter even if our GDP is 3 trillions.

Korean defense industry is a perfect example of an integrated military industries. It gives incentives for other sectors to create military department that focuses on satisfying military industries' needs. And it does not stop there, a military-industrial complex is also built to keep the money rotating. That is still missing in Indonesia as TNI high ranking officials are often still acting as Sales Rep. for foreign manufacturers.

So you see, what we lack is a plan and system that will support an organic growth of arm industry. Arm industry should be treated like any other industry.

to create the environment you need the incentive you need the market, in Indonesia GDP is always matter as military spending is pegged not too much and always behind of 1 percentage barrier even the most optimistic projection is around 1,5 percentage of GDP, that in turn it always of how much large Indonesian GDP is to correlated into defense spending and in turn military purchase, and that's how large indonesian arms market it is. Indonesian military market is always small to begin with, without market there is no incentive for the arm industry to growth. South Korean and Turkey got large and complex industrial military is because they got large market to absorb the products (Turkish armed forces and ROK armed Forces) in the first place.

BTW, if it up to me, i will liberalize this sector in the first place. Placed no restriction for foreign arm manufacturer to build their industrial manufacturing in Indonesia, and placing and marketing Indonesia as arms production hub in the region for foreign defense industries who trying to penetrate Asia Pacific market as there is untapped market in the region like Vietnam (who increasingly trying to adding western made type of arms into their inventory), Thailand, Philippine as they are in the process to replacing their obsolete weapons systems leftover from Vietnam war era. For our Indonesian military industry, they need to innovate and trying something out of the box, like acquire stocks and technological knowledge from foreign arms industries in Eastern Europe like Bulgaria, Croatia, Ukraine and small western European arms industry and so on to acquire new knowledge and products base. Indonesia basic industrial infrastructure is in place, it just our regulation is need to be revamped along with the mindset.

 

[nufix]

Remember that I mentioned that this forum is no longer moderated fairly? This is why https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russ...stic-matter-regarding-hong-kong.668207/page-5

So if I get banned I'd like to suggest that you need to...

1. make sure that you know you can never insult or even disagree with that particular country and people
2. make sure you know that even questions can be considered personal attacks by mods if you are reported by members of that particular country
3. make sure that you never questions any mod's judgement