striver44
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that is giant bow 23mm gun iirc, not norinco 35mm AA copycatMereka bisa muter sendiri out of control, .
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that is giant bow 23mm gun iirc, not norinco 35mm AA copycatMereka bisa muter sendiri out of control, .
Well naming convention should not be bothered as Indonesia is still far cry from having such problem at hands.
Marines corps to own their dedicated SPAAG? In the current set up they are using BVP 2 for such roles, btw why the marines not actively looking for BMP 2 or BVP 2 excess article? Marines Corps is in dire need for Amphibious armor as their third division set up is without armor and the rest is lacking armor in their inventory
Probably due to Giant Bow incident in Natuna which killed 4 soldiersso alman looks very dissapointed with norinco SPAAG, what's the problem btw.?? any idea @Chestnut
BMP SosnaHmmmm 12 SP and 12 Towed = 4 SP and 4 Towed for each Pasmar?.
Anyway, if Kormar looking for Russian SPAAG, probably they should choose Derivatsiya-PVO SPAAG for the sake of commonality:
-Based on BMP-3F
-Use 57mm munition (probably it can use the same munition from S-60 or Navy's 57mm naval gun)
-Russia claimed that it can shot not just low-flying aircraft/helicopter/uav, but also rocket and cruise missile
For towed ones,(if what Alman said is accurate) the budget is quite small, only $39 million, so I guess it will be AA-Gun and not SAM? Well if it's AA-Gun, i hope they can get something that is automated
Probably due to Giant Bow incident in Natuna which killed 4 soldiers
Hmmmm 12 SP and 12 Towed = 4 SP and 4 Towed for each Pasmar?.
Anyway, if Kormar looking for Russian SPAAG, probably they should choose Derivatsiya-PVO SPAAG for the sake of commonality:
-Based on BMP-3F
-Use 57mm munition (probably it can use the same munition from S-60 or Navy's 57mm naval gun)
-Russia claimed that it can shot not just low-flying aircraft/helicopter/uav, but also rocket and cruise missile
For towed ones,(if what Alman said is accurate) the budget is quite small, only $39 million, so I guess it will be AA-Gun and not SAM? Well if it's AA-Gun, i hope they can get something that is automated
Probably due to Giant Bow incident in Natuna which killed 4 soldiers
Ah yes, I forgot about SosnaBMP Sosna
what is the objective of an military? To win the war and destroying the enemies!!! Not to win the minds and hearts of the population and civillian from enemies sides!!!
Thats game to win the minds and hearts clearly made the objective of the conflict itself become obscured and inflicted self defeat on the purposes.
winning wars and winning battles are two very different things. you can win as much battle as you could but is not going to win war when you demonize the population of the adversaries.what is the objective of an military? To win the war and destroying the enemies!!! Not to win the minds and hearts of the population and civillian from enemies sides!!!
Thats game to win the minds and hearts clearly made the objective of the conflict itself become obscured and inflicted self defeat on the purposes.
https://www.liputan6.com/news/read/2955420/4-prajurit-tni-gugur-saat-latihan-di-natunaso alman looks very dissapointed with norinco SPAAG, what's the problem btw.?? any idea @Chestnut
Then like it or not they would have to adapt. They're used to NATO equipment since they've already operated plenty of them before. It's not really an excuse for them to stick to Russian stuff.I am a bit ok with not getting Su-35 because of CAATSA, but I'm a bit worried about the Marines not being able to get stuff because of CAATSA though, will take time for them to transition to NATO standard equipment if they're really forced to
Hmmmm 12 SP and 12 Towed = 4 SP and 4 Towed for each Pasmar?.
Anyway, if Kormar looking for Russian SPAAG, probably they should choose Derivatsiya-PVO SPAAG for the sake of commonality:
-Based on BMP-3F
-Use 57mm munition (probably it can use the same munition from S-60 or Navy's 57mm naval gun)
-Russia claimed that it can shot not just low-flying aircraft/helicopter/uav, but also rocket and cruise missile
For towed ones,(if what Alman said is accurate) the budget is quite small, only $39 million, so I guess it will be AA-Gun and not SAM? Well if it's AA-Gun, i hope they can get something that is automated
Probably due to Giant Bow incident in Natuna which killed 4 soldiers
CAATSA: "I'm gonna do what's called a pro-gamer move"BMP Sosna
If they wanted something cheaper yet effective they can just repurpose the old AMX hulls with the Crotale NG turret.consider just how poorly russian SAM(and many other weaps system) performed I think it's better to find for other weaps supplier, anyone but russia please.
Not really. It is a lot easier to destroy your enemy when the local population is on your side, or at least neutral. Take GAM, Fretilin, MIT, and OPM for example, to some extent they relied heavily on the local population to support them (logistics, informant, recruitment, etc). Also, in this era of democracy, social media, free press, etc., it is very important for a military operation or even a military institution itself to secure legitimacy by winning the hearts and minds of the population. Remember how public opinion in the US influences the Vietnamese war? East Timor referendum?
CAATSA: "I'm gonna do what's called a pro-gamer move"
winning wars and winning battles are two very different things. you can win as much battle as you could but is not going to win war when you demonize the population of the adversaries.
just look at afghanistan war, the US never lost a single battle against the taliban, but many argue that the war is already lost.
There is miss about your conclussion. US is failed because they dont have clear objective on how to end Vietnam war and how to proceed it, instead they drag it down while trying to put South Vietnam as the front liner and giving supporting roles, and they eventually failed to gather their own public rally to support such continues war. Indonesia military is not failed in Timor, but rather they cant put their hold together what is their objective while governing Timor (especially Indonesia quasi military style dictatorial government) and the order to put everything under military shoes what failed us and diplomatic blunder at the time deprived Indonesia from foreign support , not even Soeharto style institution can prevail in Jakarta. There is nothing to do with the military need to win the minds and hearts for oponnents population. Modern military should taking it roots for their original purposes to defend the country and defeat the Nation enemies. You only walking the path of imperialism if you starting to talking to win the minds and hearts of oponnents population
Dude, one of the reasons why most of the East Timor population chose independence was because of the bad reputation of our military there (terlepas dari benar atau enggaknya semua tuduhan pelanggaran HAM). Remember the Santa-Cruz incident?
Also, neglecting the importance of winning the support of the local population, especially in terms of Human Right violation conducted by TNI/Polri personnel, is exactly one of the reasons why we still have conflict in Papua. Read LIPI's 'Road Map Papua' book
http://lipi.go.id/risetunggulan/single/buku-road-map-papua/16
I can guarantee that is not the case. CAATSA is all encompassing, to leave it out for 'smaller' purchases would defeat the whole purpose of the act. That is why the Marines are apparently looking at the AAVP-7 from BAE as a replacement for the BT-3F. Also, you'd be hard pressed to find a bank that is willing to finance a Russian arms deal right now.Wamenhan's statement about the possibility of Su-35 cancelation and replaced it by F-35 is a clear sign that our MoD is very concerned about CAATSA. However, there seems to be no US pressure on BT-3F and BMP-3F contract, and last month the request to procure a further batch of BT-3F has been approved by the 1st Commission.
So perhaps the US will only use its CAATSA cards for something sophisticated and significant like fighter aircraft, long-range SAM, subs, etc., and they will leave us alone for something that is 'B aja' like APC, IFV, and maybe SHORAD