Indonesia Defence Forum

[MacanJawa]

when nasams 2 arrive?

 

[mandala]

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[Kansel]

Is this some reason why our airforce don't focus on modernization on mef II? They're focusing on building and implementing NCW first especially on using DL16 after that, they can focus on modernization on mef III afterwards

when nasams 2 arrive?

2021/2022

 

[Nike]

View attachment 583704 View attachment 583705
Is this some reason why our airforce don't focus on modernization on mef II? They're focusing on building and implementing NCW first especially on using DL16 after that, they can focus on modernization on mef III afterwards


2021/2022

What is meaning with modernization? Only limited with shiny, brand new hardware? Or everything including the betterment of infrastructure, hardware, software, including human resources?

If what all of you here mean with modernization is just bought shiny new toys, i am starting to thinking to abandon this sites too, the same with kaskus....

 

[182]

Su-27 Number 01 & 02.

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ajib , now we've 15 units fully combat ready sukhois


old photos, happy sunday guys

 

[Kansel]

What is meaning with modernization? Only limited with shiny, brand new hardware? Or everything including the betterment of infrastructure, hardware, software, including human resources?

If what all of you here mean with modernization is just bought shiny new toys, i am starting to thinking to abandon this sites too, the same with kaskus....

Not only shiny new toys,its including everything,everything to build our airforce to become capable one if we only modernize shiny toy without modernizing its human resources and infrastructure,hardware&software,nothing different than saudi

Im sorry if i didn't fully explained my statement but as we see the current progress airforce really2 building their infrastructure, interopability capabilities right now they're using DL16 building NCW and of course integrated shiny toys will fullfill the capabilities that airforce have been build hoping the best for TNI i hope mef 3 running smoothly,we're already building infrastructure and supporting facility

 

[Ruhnama]

old photos, happy sunday guys

I just remember video mi 35 flying low altitude and then... the tent destroyed

Btw, anyone have know lipnur kumbang right? Can we developed it more from this old platform for coin? Change engine avionic with modern one... are it is possible to do?

 

[Nike]

I just remember video mi 35 flying low altitude and then... the tent destroyed

Btw, anyone have know lipnur kumbang right? Can we developed it more from this old platform for coin? Change engine avionic with modern one... are it is possible to do?

Much better to reverse engineering or designing basic trainer first, we got massive needs of them. There is a lot of flight school in Indonesia who need new basic trainer at interval phase of 8-15 years. Police, TNI AU, AL, and AD itself need more basic trainer aircraft. The market is there, we just doesnt know how to build proper foundation to build our aircraft industry.

This case is happened before

Penerbangan ini disaksikan oleh pimpinan dan karyawan LIPNUR, pejabat TNI-AU, pejabat dari Dinas Kelaikan Udara, dan tamu dari ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization). Tanggal 9 November inilah yang akhirnya ditetapkan secara resmi sebagai tanggal penerbangan perdana (first flight) LT-200.

Ada empat prototipe yang dibuat selama periode tahun 1974-1976 dan masing-masing diberikan registrasi IN-201 s/d IN-204. LIPNUR dan PT. Chandra Dirgantara terus melaksanakan modifikasi dan perbaikan dari pesawat swayasa (amateur build aircraft) menjadi pesawat latih mula (primary/basic trainner) yang memenuhi persyaratan sesuai dengan kebutuhan TNI-AU dan LPPU.

Terbang perdana tidak resmi prototipe pertama LT-200 pada tanggal 8 November 1974 pada sore hari. Penerbangan ini diulangi pada esok hari pukul 11.00 dan menjadi tanggal resmi penerbangan perdananya.

Sayangnya swadaya pesawat latih ini justru kandas ketika LIPNUR digabung dengan Advanced Technology Pertamina menjadi Industri Pesawat Terbang Nurtanio (PT. Nurtanio). Pada tahun 1978, Direktur PT. Nurtanio, BJ. Habibie memutuskan untuk menghentikan proyek LT-200 dan fokus pada proyek produksi lisensi pesawat komuter CASA NC-212 dan helikopter Bolkow BO-105 pesanan Pertamina (Perusahaan Pertambangan Minyak dan Gas Bumi Negara).

Karena tidak didukung oleh industri dalam negeri, akibatnya TNI-AU dan LPPU memilih untuk mengimpor pesawat latih mula dari luar negeri. TNI-AU membeli AS202 Bravo buatan Flug- und Fahrzeugwerke Altenrhein asal Swiss sedangkan LPPU membeli Piper Cherokee dan Beech Musketeer.

Rencana ke depan untuk LT-200, dikembangkan terus dari swayasa menjadi latih mula. Prototipe keempat merupakan model pra produksi.

Saat ini, dari empat protipe LT-200, hanya satu yang bisa diselamatkan yaitu prototipe kedua (IN-202) dengan warna dan cat Aeroclub Nurtanio dan menjadi koleksi Museum Dirgantara Mandala di Yogyakarta sejak tahun 1987. Prototipe pertama terus diterbangkan untuk pengujian dan sertifikasi tapi sayangnya tidak diketahui nasibnya.

Prototipe ketiga dan keempat diserahkan kepada LPPU pada tahun 1977 untuk dievaluasi dan telah diberi registrasi sipil masing-masing PK-ALD dan PK-ALE. Dikabarkan PK-ALD mengalami kecelakaan pada tahun 1985 dan PK-ALE disebut-sebut masih disimpan dengan baik untuk studi sistem pesawat terbang.

IN-201, prototipe pertama LT-200 berkunjung ke LPPU Curug, Tangerang. Setelah itu LIPNUR memberikan dua unit LT-200 kepada LPPU untuk dievaluasi.

Sama seperti Belalang, nasib LT-200 memang pahit, padahal bayangkan bila Indonesia bisa mandiri untuk memenuhi pesawat latih mula, lebih hemat, dan uang yang dikeluarkan pastinya kembali masuk ke kantong sendiri. Dengan teknologi sederhana yang dimiliki, baik Belalang maupun LT-200 merupakan perwujudan nyata dari cita-cita dan idealisme Nurtanio, yaitu agar dunia penerbangan yang dinilai mahal dan rumit menjadi lebih dekat kepada masyarakat umum khususnya kepada generasi muda.

Kalau ada pendapat, kebutuhan pesawat latih di Indonesia sedikit, tentunya harus diperhatikan potensi ada berapa sekolah pilot yang ada di Indonesia saat ini yang rata-rata minimal membutuhkan empat sampai enam pesawat latih. Biaya pendidikan pilot juga bisa ditekan karena harganya yang lebih murah daripada harus impor dan tentu saja murah dari sisi operasionalnya.

TNI-AU sebagai institusi pendidikan pilot militer, setidaknya membutuhkan satu skadron (12 unit) pesawat latih mula. Ditambah lagi kebutuhan dari perorangan, klub terbang (aeroclub), atau instansi lainnya baik pemerintah maupun swasta. Efeknya bertambah, ada pula untuk kepentingan edukasi. Belalang atau LT-200 dapat menjadi sarana praktik sekolah kejuruan dan kampus. Bukan tidak mungkin dirakit dan diproduksi oleh siswa SMK (Sekolah Menengah Kejuruan), mahasiswa teknik, dan bengkel sekelas industri rumahan (home industry).

LT-200 (IN-202) dengan warna dan cat Aeroclub Nurtanio yang disimpan dan menjadi koleksi Museum TNI-AU Dirgantara Mandala di Yogyakarta.

LT-200 ada contoh nyata seperti yang disebut Suharto seperti “membajak teknologi” : beli gambar, dibuat, lalu dikembangkan atau desain ulang menjadi pesawat yang sesuai dengan kebutuhan yang diinginkan. Hal yang sama dilakukan Nurtanio dalam pembuatan Belalang, dengan membajak desain Piper Cub. Bajak-membajak seperti ini adalah hal yang lumrah, negara-negara dengan industri kedirgantaraan yang maju seperti Tiongkok dan Korea Selatan juga melakukan hal yang sama.
https://aviahistoria.com/2017/08/01/swadaya-pesawat-latih-yang-gagal-lt-200-skytrainer/2/

 

[Ruhnama]

Much better to reverse engineering or designing basic trainer first, we got massive needs of them. There is a lot of flight school in Indonesia who need new basic trainer at interval phase of 8-15 years. Police, TNI AU, AL, and AD itself need more basic trainer aircraft. The market is there, we just doesnt know how to build proper foundation to build our aircraft industry.

This case is happened before

Penerbangan ini disaksikan oleh pimpinan dan karyawan LIPNUR, pejabat TNI-AU, pejabat dari Dinas Kelaikan Udara, dan tamu dari ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization). Tanggal 9 November inilah yang akhirnya ditetapkan secara resmi sebagai tanggal penerbangan perdana (first flight) LT-200.

Ada empat prototipe yang dibuat selama periode tahun 1974-1976 dan masing-masing diberikan registrasi IN-201 s/d IN-204. LIPNUR dan PT. Chandra Dirgantara terus melaksanakan modifikasi dan perbaikan dari pesawat swayasa (amateur build aircraft) menjadi pesawat latih mula (primary/basic trainner) yang memenuhi persyaratan sesuai dengan kebutuhan TNI-AU dan LPPU.

Terbang perdana tidak resmi prototipe pertama LT-200 pada tanggal 8 November 1974 pada sore hari. Penerbangan ini diulangi pada esok hari pukul 11.00 dan menjadi tanggal resmi penerbangan perdananya.

Sayangnya swadaya pesawat latih ini justru kandas ketika LIPNUR digabung dengan Advanced Technology Pertamina menjadi Industri Pesawat Terbang Nurtanio (PT. Nurtanio). Pada tahun 1978, Direktur PT. Nurtanio, BJ. Habibie memutuskan untuk menghentikan proyek LT-200 dan fokus pada proyek produksi lisensi pesawat komuter CASA NC-212 dan helikopter Bolkow BO-105 pesanan Pertamina (Perusahaan Pertambangan Minyak dan Gas Bumi Negara).

Karena tidak didukung oleh industri dalam negeri, akibatnya TNI-AU dan LPPU memilih untuk mengimpor pesawat latih mula dari luar negeri. TNI-AU membeli AS202 Bravo buatan Flug- und Fahrzeugwerke Altenrhein asal Swiss sedangkan LPPU membeli Piper Cherokee dan Beech Musketeer.

Rencana ke depan untuk LT-200, dikembangkan terus dari swayasa menjadi latih mula. Prototipe keempat merupakan model pra produksi.

Saat ini, dari empat protipe LT-200, hanya satu yang bisa diselamatkan yaitu prototipe kedua (IN-202) dengan warna dan cat Aeroclub Nurtanio dan menjadi koleksi Museum Dirgantara Mandala di Yogyakarta sejak tahun 1987. Prototipe pertama terus diterbangkan untuk pengujian dan sertifikasi tapi sayangnya tidak diketahui nasibnya.

Prototipe ketiga dan keempat diserahkan kepada LPPU pada tahun 1977 untuk dievaluasi dan telah diberi registrasi sipil masing-masing PK-ALD dan PK-ALE. Dikabarkan PK-ALD mengalami kecelakaan pada tahun 1985 dan PK-ALE disebut-sebut masih disimpan dengan baik untuk studi sistem pesawat terbang.

IN-201, prototipe pertama LT-200 berkunjung ke LPPU Curug, Tangerang. Setelah itu LIPNUR memberikan dua unit LT-200 kepada LPPU untuk dievaluasi.

Sama seperti Belalang, nasib LT-200 memang pahit, padahal bayangkan bila Indonesia bisa mandiri untuk memenuhi pesawat latih mula, lebih hemat, dan uang yang dikeluarkan pastinya kembali masuk ke kantong sendiri. Dengan teknologi sederhana yang dimiliki, baik Belalang maupun LT-200 merupakan perwujudan nyata dari cita-cita dan idealisme Nurtanio, yaitu agar dunia penerbangan yang dinilai mahal dan rumit menjadi lebih dekat kepada masyarakat umum khususnya kepada generasi muda.

Kalau ada pendapat, kebutuhan pesawat latih di Indonesia sedikit, tentunya harus diperhatikan potensi ada berapa sekolah pilot yang ada di Indonesia saat ini yang rata-rata minimal membutuhkan empat sampai enam pesawat latih. Biaya pendidikan pilot juga bisa ditekan karena harganya yang lebih murah daripada harus impor dan tentu saja murah dari sisi operasionalnya.

TNI-AU sebagai institusi pendidikan pilot militer, setidaknya membutuhkan satu skadron (12 unit) pesawat latih mula. Ditambah lagi kebutuhan dari perorangan, klub terbang (aeroclub), atau instansi lainnya baik pemerintah maupun swasta. Efeknya bertambah, ada pula untuk kepentingan edukasi. Belalang atau LT-200 dapat menjadi sarana praktik sekolah kejuruan dan kampus. Bukan tidak mungkin dirakit dan diproduksi oleh siswa SMK (Sekolah Menengah Kejuruan), mahasiswa teknik, dan bengkel sekelas industri rumahan (home industry).

LT-200 (IN-202) dengan warna dan cat Aeroclub Nurtanio yang disimpan dan menjadi koleksi Museum TNI-AU Dirgantara Mandala di Yogyakarta.

LT-200 ada contoh nyata seperti yang disebut Suharto seperti “membajak teknologi” : beli gambar, dibuat, lalu dikembangkan atau desain ulang menjadi pesawat yang sesuai dengan kebutuhan yang diinginkan. Hal yang sama dilakukan Nurtanio dalam pembuatan Belalang, dengan membajak desain Piper Cub. Bajak-membajak seperti ini adalah hal yang lumrah, negara-negara dengan industri kedirgantaraan yang maju seperti Tiongkok dan Korea Selatan juga melakukan hal yang sama.
https://aviahistoria.com/2017/08/01/swadaya-pesawat-latih-yang-gagal-lt-200-skytrainer/2/

Sad to read that. ....
The technology that we can developed more but end....

 

[Kansel]

Sad to read that. ....
The technology that we can developed more but end....

We do have many ambitious project tempo lalu unfortunately many of em got canceled

Also,what makes our navy chose millenium gun over phalanx,goalkeeper or seaRAM?

I still dont understand if pindad really want to fullfill their user requirements why don't focused with firearms first then armored vehicle?

We're still lacks on firearms+optics especially in AT rockets getting rpg 7 or AT-4 license is great and please complete the SS3 project already.

Thats why i prefer pindad to focus on armored vehicle&ammunition and let other producer like komodo armament to do the firearms job.

It looked so bad with only 2 optics and 1 grenadier on 1 division

 

[HellFireIndo]

We do have many ambitious project tempo lalu unfortunately many of em got canceled

Also,what makes our navy chose millenium gun over phalanx,goalkeeper or seaRAM?

I still dont understand if pindad really want to fullfill their user requirements why don't focused with firearms first then armored vehicle?

We're still lacks on firearms+optics especially in AT rockets getting rpg 7 or AT-4 license is great and please complete the SS3 project already.

Thats why i prefer pindad to focus on armored vehicle&ammunition and let other producer like komodo armament to do the firearms job.

It looked so bad with only 2 optics and 1 grenadier on 1 divisionView attachment 583735

Are optics that expensive tho? i don't see any excuse of them not being interested in producing or equipping the soldiers with optics. Lol i've even seen Brimob squad being fully equipped with DMR guy etc..

 

[Ruhnama]

We do have many ambitious project tempo lalu unfortunately many of em got canceled

Also,what makes our navy chose millenium gun over phalanx,goalkeeper or seaRAM?

I still dont understand if pindad really want to fullfill their user requirements why don't focused with firearms first then armored vehicle?

We're still lacks on firearms+optics especially in AT rockets getting rpg 7 or AT-4 license is great and please complete the SS3 project already.

Thats why i prefer pindad to focus on armored vehicle&ammunition and let other producer like komodo armament to do the firearms job.

It looked so bad with only 2 optics and 1 grenadier on 1 divisionView attachment 583735

Likely why navy purcahse milenium because it has caliber 35 mm compatible with other weapon already have oerlikon gdf 35 mm. Also it has AHEAD munition

Coincidently, yesterday i read previous page about composition that rifle team

Why not in regu we make composiition that have rpg 7 or maybe m72 law or m80 zolja? (This item is cheap and readily availabel everywhre in the world ) Add 2 more personnel to carry minimi. And 2 carry rifle gl.

Yes lack fire power. I still curious are there any local made optical sight or local optic industried that can make telescope etc?

Why just not pindad design weapon, any private industry produced the weapon and parts?

 

[Kansel]

Are optics that expensive tho? i don't see any excuse of them not being interested in producing or equipping the soldiers with optics. Lol i've even seen Brimob squad being fully equipped with DMR guy etc..

Yeah polri,brimob in this case always freely costumizing their own weapon lookup at their costumized SS1 with handgrip,and M4 adapter

Sorry for the blurry photos,i can't find the clear one

Why not in regu we make composiition that have rpg 7 or maybe m72 law or m80 zolja? (This item is cheap and readily availabel everywhre in the world ) Add 2 more personnel to carry minimi. And 2 carry rifle gl.

Yes lack fire power. I still curious are there any local made optical sight or local optic industried that can make telescope etc?

Why just not pindad design weapon, any private industry produced the weapon and parts?

There's no industry even private owned one succesful making optical sights,pindad once create optical sight but the design is really2 awful to use

Yeah you know sistem "monopoli perdagangan" right? No way pindad want to give their firearms market to other producer

That's what I'm ranting about, pindad is too focused by armored vehicle division yet they didn't focused the antitode of it. Getting license of RPG-7 or M72 is good enough for pindad, not too expensive and the quality is fair enough to be considered

 

[Nike]

We do have many ambitious project tempo lalu unfortunately many of em got canceled

Also,what makes our navy chose millenium gun over phalanx,goalkeeper or seaRAM?

I still dont understand if pindad really want to fullfill their user requirements why don't focused with firearms first then armored vehicle?

We're still lacks on firearms+optics especially in AT rockets getting rpg 7 or AT-4 license is great and please complete the SS3 project already.

Thats why i prefer pindad to focus on armored vehicle&ammunition and let other producer like komodo armament to do the firearms job.

It looked so bad with only 2 optics and 1 grenadier on 1 divisionView attachment 583735

Bold one

I dont get what you mean?

What is the user requirement? What is the user really want? And how can a producent dictate what the buyer really need and Force them to bought their products?

Green bold

How can firearms and optic related to support weapons like RPG 7? Then talking about SS3, what the urgency right now to promoting a new rifle meanwhile, the current user still ordering combination of SS1 and SS2?

Red bold

Its all depend on the user order, not the decision of the arm marker. And as you should know, most of PT Pindad benefit come from small arms division and munition in Turen

Dark blue

You mean squad level arms?

Lol, its depend on situation and threat assessment on which arms need to be carried during engagement or patrol duty. Just for intermezzo, during operation against GAM, even Marines got RPG 7 to support squad level unit and some of the KOSTRAD unit using armburst, and Yugoslavia made M 72 equivalent to support their squad level units. Its not TNI is averse with the use of support weapon like RPG as thet are keep procuring them every year in number, but to current threat for the infantry soldier on the fields most of their current equipment is enough.

Likely why navy purcahse milenium because it has caliber 35 mm compatible with other weapon already have oerlikon gdf 35 mm. Also it has AHEAD munition

Coincidently, yesterday i read previous page about composition that rifle team

Why not in regu we make composiition that have rpg 7 or maybe m72 law or m80 zolja? (This item is cheap and readily availabel everywhre in the world ) Add 2 more personnel to carry minimi. And 2 carry rifle gl.

Yes lack fire power. I still curious are there any local made optical sight or local optic industried that can make telescope etc?

Why just not pindad design weapon, any private industry produced the weapon and parts?

I had put news and photos about PT PINDAD optical labs and assembly facility here, in coorperation with Greeks companies. Dont be lazy!!!

Yeah polri,brimob in this case always freely costumizing their own weapon lookup at their costumized SS1 with handgrip,and M4 adapter
View attachment 583748
Sorry for the blurry photos,i can't find the clear one



There's no industry even private owned one succesful making optical sights,pindad once create optical sight but the design is really2 awful to use

Yeah you know sistem "monopoli perdagangan" right? No way pindad want to give their firearms market to other producer

That's what I'm ranting about, pindad is too focused by armored vehicle division yet they didn't focused the antitode of it. Getting license of RPG-7 or M72 is good enough for pindad, not too expensive and the quality is fair enough to be considered

Dont make blind accusation

PT PINDAD partner in optical and sensor is THEON, they won tender in Germany and supplying USMC.

https://defence-point.com/2019/10/1...oculars-for-usmc-in-collaboration-with-elbit/

Margin profit from support weapon is not as large as from small arms, munition and armored vehicles, they related it from the order from TNI toward mortar units.

Next time using sources lah if you want to made rants

 

[trishna_amṛta]

Are optics that expensive tho? i don't see any excuse of them not being interested in producing or equipping the soldiers with optics. Lol i've even seen Brimob squad being fully equipped with DMR guy etc..

Expensive / cheap is subjective term.
Something to keep in mind, the typical operating theater for TNI is tropical jungle where visibility is typically limited to under 60m, although there are always some situation where there is clear line of sight for over 600m where having an optic is paramount. For example I once being stalked by a tiger and based from all the signs the tiger is somewhere in 20m - 30m distance and yet none of us see him until night time when the tiger grace us with his presence.

Police work on the other hand require far more precision shot, thus it is understandable they use more optic.