Indonesia Defence Forum

[Kansel]

More likely more than 2020-2024 period, goes through 2028 more likely. PKR is not much different from the corvettes, a glorious version of Dpn class, not adding much capability to our Navy. Not even their ASW and ASuW roles suite is much better and thats very vital.

Now we have strong candidate for AAW frigate (variant of iver),is there a plan to procure asw/asuw specialized frigate? Or maybe destroyer? Not in 2020-2024 for sure probably >2026

 

[HellFireIndo]

Compared to the Dutch, the Danish have less "kepentingan" strings in their deal, they "seems" to be honest about their product and also in-line with our interest of an affordable and versatile Heavy Frigate design (just like the famous LEGO), and that they marketed the joint-production for their AAW frigate design from the very beginning (so no ToT bodong), seems like a good deal to me.

But what's left is the Sensors and Weaponry tho, with the cons that Thales and MBDA don't have as strong influence on Danish defense industry, so we can't order the vessel + jeroan in one package, but also the pros that outside lobby (of them lobbied the Danish to order their product with a set price) can be avoided to prevent a jump in price (where jeroan cost nearly as much as the hull itself). IDK but i think Raytheon's missile is the go-to choice, firepower for the price's good, we still have the option for European or anyone else' sensors but with the disadvantage of it being an American product.

 

[Nike]

Compared to the Dutch, the Danish have less "kepentingan" strings in their deal, they "seems" to be honest about their product and also in-line with our interest of an affordable and versatile Heavy Frigate design (just like the famous LEGO), and that they marketed the joint-production for their AAW frigate design from the very beginning (so no ToT bodong), seems like a good deal to me.

But what's left is the Sensors and Weaponry tho, with the cons that Thales and MBDA don't have as strong influence on Danish defense industry, so we can't order the vessel + jeroan in one package, but also the pros that outside lobby (of them lobbied the Danish to order their product with a set price) can be avoided to prevent a jump in price (where jeroan cost nearly as much as the hull itself). IDK but i think Raytheon's missile is the go-to choice, firepower for the price's good, we still have the option for European or anyone else' sensors but with the disadvantage of it being an American product.

American products is much cheaper , technology matured compared to their European counterparts, albeit the complexity procedure and paperwork to get them is still being a headache.

But well since we can get AMRAAM there is no reason for them to deny us some defensive type missiles like ESSM and basic Standard missile (RIM 156)

 

[Kansel]

Compared to the Dutch, the Danish have less "kepentingan" strings in their deal, they "seems" to be honest about their product and also in-line with our interest of an affordable and versatile Heavy Frigate design (just like the famous LEGO), and that they marketed the joint-production for their AAW frigate design from the very beginning (so no ToT bodong), seems like a good deal to me.

But what's left is the Sensors and Weaponry tho, with the cons that Thales and MBDA don't have as strong influence on Danish defense industry, so we can't order the vessel + jeroan in one package, but also the pros that outside lobby (of them lobbied the Danish to order their product with a set price) can be avoided to prevent a jump in price (where jeroan cost nearly as much as the hull itself). IDK but i think Raytheon's missile is the go-to choice, firepower for the price's good, we still have the option for European or anyone else' sensors but with the disadvantage of it being an American product.

Smart L+apar block II for the radar,SM-2 blck IV ER+essm, exocet for ashm add asroc and towed array sonar for maximum asw capabilities its the best choice for us now

 

[Nike]

Smart L+apar block II for the radar,SM-2 blck IV ER+essm, exocet for ashm add asroc and towed array sonar for maximum asw capabilities its the best choice for us now

We can get other alternative like Denel Ukhomto IR VLS missiles, using RBS 15 instead Exocet and SAAB FCS radar and Naval radar though. There is many choices out there as long as it can bring benefit to us.

 

[HellFireIndo]

We can get other alternative like Denel Ukhomto IR VLS missiles, using RBS 15 instead Exocet and SAAB FCS radar and Naval radar though. There is many choices out there as long as it can bring benefit to us.

Tbh i will do that kind of thing to my Gundam, but not to my Navy.

 

[Nike]

Tbh i will do that kind of thing to my Gundam, but not to my Navy.

Dont know, but there is many thing can be happened. Just my rants. But hope the best lah, i personally like to take lockheed and Raytheon combo over Anything else if possible .

 

[barjo]

More likely more than 2020-2024 period, goes through 2028 more likely. PKR is not much different from the corvettes, a glorious version of Dpn class, not adding much capability to our Navy. Not even their ASW and ASuW roles suite is much better and thats very vital.

Setujjjuuuuu

Nothing different in the punch but slightly bigger stamina but no steroid

 

[striver44]

Meanwhile we're going to have 8-12 submarines in the near future. The rumored problem with Martadinata is the cost vs ToT benefit of the program as being proposed by Damen, ofc it turns out to be dissapointing, that's why they hold Martadinata's order in place, if it's not about them (Damen) specifically, why did they signed the contract for 3 submarines right away?

Btw, their Gowind program is far from perfect, there's constant delay (it even re-docked right after launching) and it's currently being investigated for corruption .

Yes but we need more capital ships with patrol capability to guard our vast ocean. Dude we used to be the unchallenged naval power in SEA now even vietnam and myanmar are catching up. We should at least be twice more powerful than our neer peer neighbor in terms of capital ships(with the exception of SG of course)

More likely more than 2020-2024 period, goes through 2028 more likely. PKR is not much different from the corvettes, a glorious version of Dpn class, not adding much capability to our Navy. Not even their ASW and ASuW roles suite is much better and thats very vital.

I think we should differentiate between frontline state of the art frigate like iver huidfledt with patrol corvette/frigate like Martadinata's. Both cant be in the same league. One is an expensive but very capable hull the other one is a workhorse for the navy, still quite advanced but much more economical to operate. Personally i think we need more updated DPN class or opv's to replace our parchim fleet.

 

[barjo]

Yes but we need more capital ships with patrol capability to guard our vast ocean. Dude we used to be the unchallenged naval power in SEA now even vietnam and myanmar are catching up. We should at least be twice more powerful than our neer peer neighbor in terms of capital ships(with the exception of SG of course)


I think we should differentiate between frontline state of the art frigate like iver huidfledt with patrol corvette/frigate like Martadinata's. Both cant be in the same league. One is an expensive but very capable hull the other one is a workhorse for the navy, still quite advanced but much more economical to operate. Personally i think we need more updated DPN class or opv's to replace our parchim fleet.

LPD serve well bro, very very small small mothership hehehehe....

 

[striver44]

LPD serve well bro, very very small small mothership hehehehe....

The fact that sometimes we used lpd or even LST's for patrol purpose shows that our patrol fleet is in a low serviceability rate. And in dire need for replacement.

 

[barjo]

Yes but we need more capital ships with patrol capability to guard our vast ocean. Dude we used to be the unchallenged naval power in SEA now even vietnam and myanmar are catching up. We should at least be twice more powerful than our neer peer neighbor in terms of capital ships(with the exception of SG of course)


I think we should differentiate between frontline state of the art frigate like iver huidfledt with patrol corvette/frigate like Martadinata's. Both cant be in the same league. One is an expensive but very capable hull the other one is a workhorse for the navy, still quite advanced but much more economical to operate. Personally i think we need more updated DPN class or opv's to replace our parchim fleet.

I think i like german experience... All their big surface fleet wipe out in the second phase of war, but their sub need more ally efford to subdue them

The fact that sometimes we used lpd or even LST's for patrol purpose shows that our patrol fleet is in a low serviceability rate. And in dire need for replacement.

Yeah you right bro... Small fleet for small cost

 

[Nike]

Yes but we need more capital ships with patrol capability to guard our vast ocean. Dude we used to be the unchallenged naval power in SEA now even vietnam and myanmar are catching up. We should at least be twice more powerful than our neer peer neighbor in terms of capital ships(with the exception of SG of course)


I think we should differentiate between frontline state of the art frigate like iver huidfledt with patrol corvette/frigate like Martadinata's. Both cant be in the same league. One is an expensive but very capable hull the other one is a workhorse for the navy, still quite advanced but much more economical to operate. Personally i think we need more updated DPN class or opv's to replace our parchim fleet.

Ships in class of type 056 corvettes or sinkies LMV would do good for such needs. 1200-1500 tonnes corvettes with sufficient arms and sensor nodes, along with sufficient sea keeping and patrol capability.

 

[trishna_amṛta]

I think i like german experience... All their big surface fleet wipe out in the second phase of war, but their sub need more ally efford to subdue them

The main reason for that was Kriegsmarine failure to adapt to the changing situation at North Atlantic and still using WW1 line of thinking of big battle wagon (Bismarck-class) doing commerce raiding role instead of focusing in cruiser or destroyer to escort / protecting their logistic line. Eventually they end up using Type IXD2 boat transporting critical war materials from Nederlandsch-Indië all the way to the Baltic Sea, which is considering the limited capacity of any U-boot the whole operation was ineffective and complete waste of resources.

 

[barjo]

The main reason for that was Kriegsmarine failure to adapt to the changing situation at North Atlantic and still using WW1 line of thinking of big battle wagon (Bismarck-class) doing commerce raiding role instead of focusing in cruiser or destroyer to escort / protecting their logistic line. Eventually they end up using Type IXD2 boat transporting critical war materials from Nederlandsch-Indië all the way to the Baltic Sea, which is considering the limited capacity of any U-boot the whole operation was ineffective and complete waste of resources.

Nikel is damn big comodity for steel manufacture, big jugernaut no one scared like decades before, air superiority and under sea power is the main deterent

Platform for big guns is shrinking but platform for undersea and air superiority is growing, we must keep the paces with this style of war, no one will shot again 16inch cannon but cruise missile and guided amunition either from jet or sub will rules the waves.