Indonesia Defence Forum

[Kejora]

Everything is possible in Indonesia, but, i don't think PKR 3-6 (if 6 is really the exact figure for Ahmad Yani-class replacement) would be of any different tonnage than the current PKR, i am both unconvinced of such a possiblity and i don't really support the idea. Only if they already finished their plan with this 2300 tonne Martadinata-class, especially if they did build 6 or more ships of this class, only then i think it's logical to make a 3000-4000 tonne frigate with higher capability, preferably also a Sigma family design.

PT PAL need to master whatever they are working on and have right now, which is tech transfer from DSME South Korea and Damen Netherlands. They have been pretty successful in implementing their naval architecture expertise in SSV, KCR and several PC models, but it's still a long time to go to really fully master shipbuilding as to pioneer it's own corvette or even frigate designs (but for support ships, they already good to go). I would argue that it doesn't really matter if Martadinata's counterpart have bigger tonnage or more armament, cause these are just some factor out of many that determined a ship's overall capability.

I would prefer a 2300 ton ship with good CMS, good radar and datalinking compatible with the rest of the fleets, rather than a 3000 ton ship with downgraded training-grade CMS, weak old radar and no datalink compatibility with friendly fleets. CMS is actually among the most important part of a ship that often overlooked by many people. It's not just about adding more tonnage, but also to redesign the whole ship as to accommodate different armament requirement, adding time and cost, just so that the bow is longer and have more space for VLS, that is of different class (Aster/ Sea Ceptor), which have different dimension and even different launch principle and guidance system. I personally don't find any strong reason to ditch MICA or even Exocet, sure they are not the best, but how much of a trouble would you go through just to get a slightly better toy? it's just a 2300 ton PKR , it's not going to be our "flagship" anyway, there's no need to be overdemanding of something that's not bad or broken.

Martadinata's architecture is good enough, i didn't see any reason to redesign the hull just to make a fancy garage for the RHIB, and i think the AShM mount is covered enough. I am skeptical of this "stealth" design in ships, cause ships are big, it's obviously hard to hide it from anything, not mention the trace it make on waters both by it's movement and sound, so i think stealth architecture in ships isn't as crucial as in aircraft.

Really dude, in that Thai frigates pic you posted, i am more concerned by that radar rather the "stealth" design of the ship, cause i kinda "hate" that radar, it bothered me somehow. If something is not 100% perfect, it's not necessarily "bad", 80-90 is a good number already right?. 2300 ton + good CMS and radar > 3300 ton + shite CMS and radar.

Well, Damen did consider the concept of steathier Sigma 10514

 

[barjo]

Well, Damen did consider the concept of steathier Sigma 10514

Stealth is kind of brand bro.. You make a stealth design some one will make anti stealth device such ecm, radar with long beam and low frecuency or with EO sensor... Nothing is stealth or just say stealther.. The main domain for ship is volume, capability to carry equipment weapons sensor, so ship difer by volume tonnage, not the stealth or not like jet that need to do such manouver or dodge and avoid radar detection, may be the same principal (5th gen jet) will apply on submarine, or revolutionary ship design. But sigma design...its so so...lumayan

 

[HellFireIndo]

Well, Damen did consider the concept of steathier Sigma 10514

If there's something like this, then there's a possibility of Damen offering the variant to TNI AL for the follow-up order. But, if we are to have another design variation, it inevitable that Damen would keep having the majority contribution to the shipbuilding process, cause obviously they are the one who have the technical detail of the design. I would prefer that we are to stick with the standart Martadinata-class, if there's no major flaw in it's design, then there's no need to change anything, as long as PT PAL would get tech transfer and shipbuilding capability of this particular model (PKR 10514).

Stealth in ships isn't as crucial as stealth in aircraft, ships that is not stealth doesn't really matter, cause obviously any non-stealth ships with AEGIS is a more punch than even the Visby-class, besides, Stealth or not, submarines could detect them just fine anyway. Idk why is it matter so much about stealthy ships, there's no fricking 5th gen ships dude, that Polish Sigma concept is not the F-35 of ships, there's much more important thing about a ship than a "stealthier" architecture. Making another model of Sigma-class cost time and money, that is better spent on another batch of Martadinata-class, and having another model to build while we are yet to master the current one is a seriously unwise investment.

It's arguably better to get Sea Ceptor and NSM rather than wasting time on "updating" the next batch of frigates with another variant of Sigma. It is not necessarily "bad" to have these models that was offered to the Polish, but i would rather see a complete fleet of 6 Martadinata-class than a 2 different variants of Sigma frigate. Why does it matter to have the so called "stealthier design" anyway?

 

[umigami]

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Kok kesannya bodinya aga penyok2 gitu ya?

 

[182]

Keel Laying Fast Motor Boat V 38M by Vice Chief of Staff of Indonesian Army

 

[barjo]

Kok kesannya bodinya aga penyok2 gitu ya?

Biasa metal melar dibeberapa bagian krn panas, bagian yg beda suhu kliatan bikin garis kotak itu rangka dalam, jadi kesannya penyok, semua kapal mengalami hal yg sama kecuali besinya tebal ma catnya agak gelap nga putih, biasanya yg kliatan banget efeknya tu di kapal yg bodynya alumunium atau baja khusus yg ringan, bisa melar tu nga pengaruh di struktur kapal, karena biasanya dah diantisipasi tingkat stres body kapal, logam bisa melar supaya kalau kena panas n hantaman ombak nga gampang pecah kaya titanic ....

Btw besi kapal perang ma kapal tanker tu beda, jadi kalau disuruh tabrakan pasti menang kapal kargo atau tanker, nga bakalan penyok tu kapal tangker LOL... Kasusnya tu fregat norway ma aegis amrik yg disosor tanker... Besi tanker tu bahan yg dipakai warship juggernout jaman behula... Tebel
https://www.marineinsight.com/guidelines/what-materials-are-used-for-building-ships/

 

[182]

Sea Trial And Firing Test KMC 38M TNIAD 2019

The Largest Army's KMC, built by PT Tesco Indomaritime

RCWS test

 

[deadlast]

Sea Trial And Firing Test KMC 38M TNIAD 2019

The Largest Army's KMC, built by PT Tesco Indomaritime

RCWS test

So basically a slightly modified design of the navy's KAL Mamuju is it? they are built by the same company after all.

The navy opt for MSI Seahawk DS A1 Dual Feed with Mk44 Bushmaster II 30mm cannon as main gun for KAL Mamuju,

Spoiler: MSI Seahawk DS A1 Dual Feed

http://www.msi-dsl.com/products/seahawk-a1/

While the army used Kongsberg Sea Protector Mk50 with Browning M2 12.7mm HMG for its main armament on this boat it seems like (there's lack of gun mounting/pedestal on the boat's bow where the main cannon usually placed or they could be added later maybe? who knows. also CMIIW).

Spoiler: Kongsberg Sea Protector Mk50

https://www.kongsberg.com/news-and-...sea-protector-mk50-supporting-the-u.-s.-navy/

 

[182]

Kongsberg M153 Protector with Javelin integrated

mounted on anoa pindad apc

So basically a slightly modified design of the navy's KAL Mamuju is it? they are built by the same company after all.
[/SPOILER]

yes, KAL Mamuju 1-6-64 or 1-6-33 has shorter hull than army's KMC

KAL Mamuju , MSI Seahawk as main gun

 

[mandala]

Screenshots PT PAL 123 Meter Strategic Sealift Vessel New Version. Credit to PT PAL Indonesia.

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[182]

KAL MAMUJU 1-6-64/33
firing main gun

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Keel Laying Fast Motor Boat V 38M by Vice Chief of Staff of Indonesian Army

KMC 38 ini di video katanya buat pergeseran pasukan ya ?

Tetapi kok bentuknya seperti kapal patroli biasa nggak seperti LST atau bahkan KMC 18 yang bisa mendaratkan pasukan di bibir pantai ?

 

[deadlast]

KMC 38 ini di video katanya buat pergeseran pasukan ya ?

Tetapi kok bentuknya seperti kapal patroli biasa nggak seperti LST atau bahkan KMC 18 yang bisa mendaratkan pasukan di bibir pantai ?

Troop transport doesn't always mean landing operation, KRI Tanjung Nusanive (973) as navy's troop transport also doesn't have it (beaching capability) either, they could use port facilities for that purpose anyways, most likely they do have provision and room to embark some more personnel beside the boats own crews.

Well, regardless what the army wants from this boats in my opinion if it going to be used by Denbekang anyways, it's likely going to ends up used to escort those LCUs that the army had owned and moreover been buying recently.

 

[Var Dracon]

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[Nike]

INDONESIA
PT GMF AEROASIA TBK AKAN MODIFIKASI DAN RAWAT HERCULES C-130 TNI AU
25 JUNI 2019 DIANEKO_LC TINGGALKAN KOMENTAR
PT GMF AeroAsia Tbk memproyeksikan pengembangan bisnis baru pada 2020, yakni melakukan perawatan alutsista untuk pesawat militer dalam negeri milik TNI AU. Pelaksana tugas Direktur Utama sekaligus Director of Business and Base Operation GMF Tazar Marta mengatakan pada tahap awal, GMF akan menggarap perawatan dan modifikasi armada angkut Hercules Lockheed Martin C-130.

“Kita segera finalisasi agreement-nya bersama Airforce (TNI AU),” ujar Tazar saat ditemui dalam acara halal bihalal di Restoran Seribu Rasa, Menteng, Jakarta Pusat, Selasa, 25 Juni 2019.

Dilansir dari laman Tempo (25/ 06/ 2019), GMF sebelumnya telah mempresentasikan rencana pemeliharaan mesin pesawat Hercules C-130 di hadapan TNI AU pada Oktober 2018 lalu. Semula perawatan pesawat armada Hercules TNI AU dilakukan di Malaysia.

Berdasarkan hasil pemaparannya, GMF bersepakat secara bertahap menggarap perawatan armada sesuai dengan kebutuhan TNI. Selain modifikasi armada Hercules, GMF akan menggarap perawatan engine pesawat pertahanan milik negara meliputi pemeliharaan airframe serta perawatan armada VVIP.

Director New Business Portofoli GMF I Gusti Wayan Susena mengatakan modifikasi armada Hercules yang pertama kali akan dilakukan ialah mengganti center wings box dan mengganti cock pit. Cock pit yang semula masih berbasis analog nantinya bakal diganti dengan mesin digital.



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“Lalu ke depan kami akan menambah military division. Kami tambahkan komersial dan TNI AU,” ucapnya.

Kendati telah dipresentasikan, TNI AU belum berkomentar banyak ihwal kerja sama dengan GMF. “Belum ada perintah,” tutur Kepala Dinas Penerangan TNI AU Marsekal TNI Fajar Adriyanto.

Lockheed Martin C-130 Hercules sebelumnya pernah digunakan untuk mengevakuasi korban gempa di Palu pada akhir September hingga Oktober 2018. Selain itu, burung besi ini juga mengangkut jenazah Ibu Negara periode 2004-2014, Kristiani Herrawati Yodhoyono atau Ani Yudhoyono, dari Singapura ke Jakarta pasa 2 Juni lalu.

Photo: Hercules A97 007 now TNI AU A1336 (Douglas Aerospace)

Editor: (D.E.S)