Indonesia-China hold defense consultation meeting

[xunzi]

I think Indonesian government doesn't want to start an arm race in this peaceful SouthEastAsia region. Thats why Indonesia's military spending never reach 1% of our GDP. If we spend much money on military, our neighbours will scream like hell.

Maybe Reashot or Nufix can start a new thread with some Indonesian member help to give update with ongoing and future. procurement.

I don't think Indonesia has a choice. The competitive nature of Southeast Asia is already display. Thailand is beefing up its air force with Gripen Fighters, Vietnam with Su-30, and Malaysia will soon field their own. The race to be the leading air power in ASEAN is undergoing...

---------------------------------------------

Thailand’s Air Force: A Leading Power in ASEAN?
By Zachary Keck

September 13, 2013

Thailand will have one of the most powerful air forces in Southeast Asia by the end of the decade, a Thai military official told reporters in Bangkok on Wednesday.

According to Thai News Agency, Thai Supreme Commander General Thanasak Patimapragorn said that the Thai Air Force’s procurement of Gripen Fighters will make it a leading force in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) by 2019.

The general added that the Air Force would seek to integrate the Gripen’s information systems with the Thai Navy and Army. He also emphasized that the fighters would only be used for defensive purposes, including for use in a future ASEAN peacekeeping force.

General Patimapragon’s comments came as Thailand took control over the last three Gripen Fighters it had ordered as part of a broader deal with the Swedish company Saab.

In 2007 the Thai Parliament authorized the Air Force to spend 34 billion baht (US$1.1 billion) to replace its aging fleet of U.S. made F-5 aircraft. The military had begun lobbying lawmakers for funds for the procurement after some of Bangkok’s neighbors, including Malaysia, purchased their own modern aircraft.

In 2008 the Air Force reached an agreement with Saab for the purchase 12 Gripen fighter jets (four 2-seaters and eight 1-seaters, two Saab 340 AEW early warning aircraft and a Saab 340 transport plane. The Gripen Integrated Air Defense System, as the aircraft as a whole are called, was delivered in two phases.

In the first stage, which took place during 2010 and 2011, the Air Force inducted six of the Gripen fighters, one of the 340 AEW aircraft, and the 340 transport plane into its fleet. The six Gripen fighters and last 340 AEW aircraft are expected to be operational by the end of this year. The armed forces will officially inaugurate the Gripen Integrated Air Defense System next year, according to the report.

Underscoring the Air Force’s efforts to strengthen its force, Air Force Marshal Prajin Jantong said on Wednesday that Bangkok is hoping to purchase six more Gripen Fighters from Sweden in the near future. Jantong said that first the government would have to approve the funding for the additional procurements.

If the government fails to supply the money, Jantong raised the possibility that Sweden may sell Bangkok the aircraft under a barter system.

On its website, Saab describes the Gripen as “the first of the new generation, multi-role fighter aircraft to enter operational service. Using the latest technology it is capable of performing an extensive range of air-to-air, air-to-surface and reconnaissance missions employing the latest weapons. Gripen is designed to meet the demands of existing and future threats.”

Development on the Gripen fighters, which Sweden portrays as a cheaper alternative to the Eurofighter Typhoon, began in 1979 and Swedish forces declared the first Gripens operational by 1997.

Saab has found the fighter to be a hot commodity on the export market. The company has sold the aircraft to the Czech Republic, the U.K., Hungary and South Africa in addition to Thailand. The Philippine Air Force (PAF) has expressed interest in purchasing some of the aircraft.

Thailand’s Air Force: A Leading Power in ASEAN? | ASEAN Beat | The Diplomat

 

[kalu_miah]

Eventually everyone will take sides. Today its a globalized world, so everyone has relations with everyone, but do the US, China or Russia give their highest military technology to any other state? Answer is only to their closest allies and some tech is only for themselves. But everyone does business and trade with everyone else. That makes it look very complex and difficult to figure out which way things are moving.

India has for long tried to take advantage of all sides by not choosing any side (nonalignment policy), but in last few months, it has become clear that India is slowly but surely moving towards alliance with US-Japan-Australia in Asia-Pacific region. Shinzo Abe calls it the new Diamond alliance project:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region-30.html#post4790036

As for ASEAN, this new planned alliance really do not need any of the countries in ASEAN, but just to create trouble and disunity among ASEAN nations, they will take advantage of the South China sea disputes and try to take Vietnam and Philippines in this alliance.

As a counter move, China will bolster its relations with ASEAN nations, including Indonesia.

What the US led West always fear is a "Cohesive Asian hearland", because a cohesive East Asia (including Northeast and Southeast Asia) will be the biggest threat to US/EU economic as well as military supremacy:
Wanted: An Externally Oriented Japan | Nippon.com

INTERVIEWER Last year you published The New Continentalism, in which you look at Eurasian geopolitics and at energy issues in particular. Why the focus on Eurasia at this point?

CALDER The changes that have occurred within Eurasia have been quiet changes, but they have historic implications for the future for Japan and the world. The collapse of the Soviet Union, China’s modernizations, and India’s reforms have together produced a new dynamic of cross-continental growth. This has pulled Korea more strongly to the continent than would otherwise have been the case. The continent is becoming much more cohesive, politically and economically, and I think that’s something Japan and the United States have to deal with.

Indirectly, this may have intensified some of the tension that we see across the East China Sea and the Sea of Japan. It also has potential importance for Japan’s future—in terms of energy from the Middle East, for example. One part of the dynamic of continentalism, of course, is that Northeast Asia and the Middle East are becoming closer and closer economically. Today, two-thirds of the Middle East’s oil goes to Asia. That’ll be three-quarters within a decade. The United States is becoming more autonomous with its shale gas, but the Asia–Middle East relationship is deepening, and the South China Sea is right in the middle of that.

 

[xunzi]

Eventually everyone will take sides. Today its a globalized world, so everyone has relations with everyone, but do the US, China or Russia give their highest military technology to any other state? Answer is only to their closest allies and some tech is only for themselves. But everyone does business and trade with everyone else. That makes it look very complex and difficult to figure out which way things are moving.

India has for long tried to take advantage of all sides by not choosing any side (nonalignment policy), but in last few months, it has become clear that India is slowly but surely moving towards alliance with US-Japan-Australia in Asia-Pacific region. Shinzo Abe calls it the new Diamond alliance project:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180755-geopolitics-asean-region-30.html#post4790036

As for ASEAN, this new planned alliance really do not need any of the countries in ASEAN, but just to create trouble and disunity among ASEAN nations, they will take advantage of the South China sea disputes and try to take Vietnam and Philippines in this alliance.

As a counter move, China will bolster its relations with ASEAN nations, including Indonesia.

What the US led West always fear is a "Cohesive Asian hearland", because a cohesive East Asia (including Northeast and Southeast Asia) will be the biggest threat to US/EU economic as well as military supremacy:
Wanted: An Externally Oriented Japan | Nippon.com

The world politics is being played by three actors (USA, Russia, and China) while the rest trying to jolt for position to join those 3 powers. This remind is of a war game being played by our ancestor during three kingdom period between Shu Han, Eastern Wu, and Cao Wei. It's clear now that the tag team of the future will be.

USA-Japan
Russia-India
China-Pakistan

 

[Beast]

The world politics is being played by three actors (USA, Russia, and China) while the rest trying to jolt for position to join those 3 powers. This remind is of a war game being played by our ancestor during three kingdom period between Shu Han, Eastern Wu, and Cao Wei. It's clear now that the tag team of the future will be.

USA-Japan
Russia-India
China-Pakistan

Russia is unlikely to regard India as a competent allies.

 

[kalu_miah]

The world politics is being played by three actors (USA, Russia, and China) while the rest trying to jolt for position to join those 3 powers. This remind is of a war game being played by our ancestor during three kingdom period between Shu Han, Eastern Wu, and Cao Wei. It's clear now that the tag team of the future will be.

USA-Japan
Russia-India
China-Pakistan

I would say its quite a bit more complex than that:
List of military alliances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For example Russia-India alliance is changing, India is moving more towards US-Japan-Australia (NATO and partners), Russia seems to be moving more towards SCO, but wants to be close to Japan as well, to balance off China's rise.

Pakistan is close to China, but even closer to Saudi Arabia, which is again a very close ally of the US.

Currently China is still rising and not there at the top yet, but with every passing year China is narrowing the gap and other nations are looking at China as a potential alternative to US or Western supremacy. So there is still a long way to go, may be 2-3 decades at least.

In the meantime:
- China will not be able to bring the following countries under its wing and these are NATO (and some partners) and India, they will cooperate with each other and will always be competitors in global stage trying to put road block in China's rise
- Japan more so and South Korea to a lesser extent are currently allied with above group, but this alliance can break in the future, specially for South Korea, given the right circumstances
- The rest of the world is an open field, specially after China reaches technological parity with the West

The other interesting thing to note is that NATO and its partner countries have a combined defense budget of about a $1 Trillion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO

Unless China and its allies can match that, it will be difficult to compete, so China needs as many allies as it can get, it cannot afford to antagonize any of these potential allied countries or groups of countries, in a more permanent or semi-permanent way.

 

[xunzi]

I would say its quite a bit more complex than that:
List of military alliances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For example Russia-India alliance is changing, India is moving more towards US-Japan-Australia (NATO and partners), Russia seems to be moving more towards SCO, but wants to be close to Japan as well, to balance off China's rise.

Pakistan is close to China, but even closer to Saudi Arabia, which is again a very close ally of the US.

Currently China is still rising and not there at the top yet, but with every passing year China is narrowing the gap and other nations are looking at China as a potential alternative to US or Western supremacy. So there is still a long way to go, may be 2-3 decades at least.

In the meantime:
- China will not be able to bring the following countries under its wing and these are NATO (and some partners) and India, they will cooperate with each other and will always be competitors in global stage trying to put road block in China's rise
- Japan more so and South Korea to a lesser extent are currently allied with above group, but this alliance can break in the future, specially for South Korea, given the right circumstances
- The rest of the world is an open field, specially after China reaches technological parity with the West

The other interesting thing to note is that NATO and its partner countries have a combined defense budget of about a $1 Trillion:
NATO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unless China and its allies can match that, it will be difficult to compete, so China needs as many allies as it can get, it cannot afford to antagonize any of these potential allied countries or groups of countries, in a more permanent or semi-permanent way.

I doubt it. Majority of India military tech comes from Russia. I usually consider arm tech as a sign of who ally with whom the most. There is growing portion of India liberal elites that want to shift their foreign policy towards USA, but the conservative still prefer Russia because of long tie and cooperation in much greater fields of defence and space. There is also growing suspicion of the USA's using India as a puppet for their own interest, so no, India is not heading toward the so called "diamond alliance".

Once again, arm closeness is what I considered "real ally". For instance, you don't provide weapons to kill other unless you are very close with that friend.

-Believe it or not, nobody understand "India" than we do. We know in their strategic interest, they don't ally well with NATO because they are a developing country. Kind of like you don't see rich kids hanging out with the poor kids because of vast difference in background.

-Japan will ally with whoever is the most powerful at the moment, so it's hard to predict Japan. Historically, that is their main foreign policy focus. I believe South Korea will end up ally with China in the future due to historical and geographical closeness. There is no benefit for South Korea to make China their enemy. We are too close to them and we live together peaceful for hundred of years until foreign influence dominate and break our tie. The reason South Korea ally with USA because the USA has the best military weapon in the world and the most powerful atm. Once China achieved parity or maybe even surpass the USA in the future, South Korea will shift to China just like the old time of Ming-Joseon Alliance.

-When and if China reaches parity with the USA, I predict a MASSIVE change in global military alliance. I believe Middle-East, Central America will shift to China while some Southeast Asia states and traditional "US"'s ally, the EURO, will continue to support the US. In East Asia, you will have Japan-South Korea competing as a proxy. South Asia will be under Russian's influence and Central Asia is split between China-Russia. Africa will be neutral and not that important.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Indonesia looks to ‘upgrade’ its China partnership
Bagus BT Saragih, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | World | Fri, September 20 2013, 8:35 AM

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono received a member of China’s State Council, Yang Jiechi, in Jakarta on Monday ahead of the bilateral visit of President Xi Jinping slated to be held in Jakarta early next month.

“The upcoming bilateral meetings will be very important in strengthening and enhancing the two countries’ relationship. Our strategic partnership [which was established in 2005] will be upgraded to a comprehensive partnership,” said Coordinating Political, Legal, and Security Affairs Minister Djoko Suyanto after the meeting.

The minister said there were several drafts of agreement scheduled to be signed on the sidelines of Xi’s Jakarta visit. Among them were memorandums of understanding (MoUs) in the sectors of investment, industry, minerals, space, fisheries, culture, education and youth.

“Yang also suggested that some regional and global issues required discussion at the upcoming bilateral meeting, such as the conflict in Syria as well as issues surrounding the South China Sea,” Djoko told a press conference.

China and ASEAN regional grouping member countries Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines claim all or part of the island chains in the oil and gas-rich territory.

The Philippine government has even filed arbitration cases before the UN International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS).

China, as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, has been playing a significant role in addressing the conflicts in Syria, which is now a global concern following the recent UN report confirming the use of deadly chemical weapons in the civil war.

Yang, the former Chinese foreign minister, and his delegation were slated to be in Indonesia for three days. He will have a series of meetings with top Indonesian officials, including attending the 4th Indonesia-China Dialogue on Political, Legal and Security Issues on Thursday.

Included in the Chinese delegation were Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs Liu Zhenmin, Vice Minister of Agriculture Niu Dun and Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia Liu Jianchao.

On the Indonesian side were minister Djoko, State Secretary Sudi Silalahi, Agriculture Minister Suswono, and presidential spokesman for foreign affairs Teuku Faizasyah.

Djoko added the Chinese official also expressed hope that Yudhoyono and Prime Minister Li Keqiang could meet on the sidelines of the East Asia Summit in Brunei Darussalam, also in early October.

Yang had also confirmed that Xi would attend the upcoming APEC Summit in Bali, Djoko said.

Indonesia and China, both G20 members and among the world’s largest economies, have enjoyed flourishing relations, particularly after the signing of a strategic partnership accord in 2005.

Two-way trade in 2012 reached US$66.6 billion, increasing from $26.6 billion in 2009, according to the Indonesian government.

China is currently Indonesia’s largest trade partner and trade value could reach $80 billion in 2015.

The value of Chinese investments in Indonesia was recorded at S$2.2 billion in 2012.

In November last year, Yudhoyono met with then Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao on the sidelines of the East Asia Summit in Phnom Penh.

A month earlier, the President also met with his then Chinese counterpart Hu Jintao at the APEC Summit in Vladivostok, Russia.

Yudhoyono’s last state visit to China was in March last year, where he also had bilateral talks with both Hu and Wen.

Indonesia looks to

Chinese naval hospital ship arrives in Indonesia
(China Military Online) 08:42, September 12, 2013

LABUAN BAJO, Sep 11 (ChinaMil) -- The "Peace Ark" hospital ship of the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLAN) which is on the "Harmonious Mission 2013" arrived at the Labuan Bajo 1,500 kilometers east of Djakarta, capital of Indonesia, at 09:00 on September 10 to take part in the medical tour jointly launched by the navies of Indonesia, China and Singapore.

To take part in the joint medical tour together with Indonesia's "KRI Dr Soeharso" hospital ship and Singapore's "Endeavor" amphibious dock transport ship is an important content of the "Harmonious Mission 2013" undertaken by the "Peace Ark" hospital ship.

The "Peace Ark" hospital ship will offer medical services to local residents, and meanwhile, medical teams from the "Peace Ark" will make rounds of visits to local residents at local ferry terminals with teams of medical workers from Indonesia and Singapore navies.

Commanding officers and medical workers on the three ships will conduct exchange of visits. A seminar will be held on the "KRI Dr Soeharso" hospital ship. All the three ships will appear in a maritime parade of warships of world navies.

Upon the conclusion of the five-day-long joint medical tour, the "Peace Ark" hospital ship will make a port call to Djakarta and stay there for two days.

Chinese naval hospital ship arrives in Indonesia - People's Daily Online

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

China to establish stronger relations with Indonesia
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | World | Thu, September 26 2013, 10:30 AM

Warm words: Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia Liu Jianchao (left) welcomes on Wednesday the head of the Indonesian Employers Association (Apindo), Sofjan Wanandi, during a reception at the National Museum in Jakarta to mark the 64th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China. (JP/Wendra Ajistyatama)
World News

China was looking to strengthen the relationship between itself and Indonesia with the foundation of the LOVE principles, namely new Leadership, new Opportunity, new Vision and new Energy, an envoy said on Wednesday.

Chinese Ambassador to Indonesia Liu Jianchao said he was “grateful the China-Indonesia partnership had become stronger and the Chinese economy was also gaining more confidence in the global economy”.

Liu said China would invest around US$500 billion worldwide and send around 500 million tourists overseas over the next five years, and added that his country was trying to build a “China Dream”, which meant improving economic prosperity and building better lives for every Chinese man and woman.

Liu made the remarks on the sidelines of the 64th anniversary celebration of the founding of the People’s Republic of China at the National Museum in Jakarta.

During the celebration, the ambassador also officially opened the Contemporary Chinese Art Exhibition, which will take place until Sept. 29.

The exhibition displays around 61 well-known pieces of Chinese art.

Also present at the exhibition opening were former president B.J. Habibie, Tourism and Creative Economy Minister Mari Elka Pangestu, Jakarta Deputy Governor Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, Law and Human Rights Minister Amir Syamsuddin and Great Indonesia Movement Party (Gerindra) chief patron Prabowo Subianto.

Mari said Indonesia and China shared similarities in terms of history, food, clothes and culture.

“Bedug, large drums used in mosques, have their historical origin from China, and Indonesia is the only country where bedug are used in mosques,” she said.

She added that batik also had a Chinese influence and some Indonesian cuisine was also originally from China.

“We hope that Indonesia will at least receive around 1 million Chinese tourists this year,” Mari said.

Ambassador Liu said the upcoming bilateral visit of Chinese President Xi Jinping in October, which is in connection with the APEC meeting in Bali, “will mark another milestone of Indonesian and Chinese cooperation and also will mark the China-ASEAN strategic partnership. We’re seeking a stronger relationship with ASEAN countries.”

Last year, based on Chinese statistics, bilateral trade surged to $66.21 billion, a 9.4 percent increase from $60 billion in 2011.

Both China and Indonesia, which established their strategic partnership in 2005, have set an $80 billion trade target between the two countries by 2015. (hrl)

China to establish stronger relations with Indonesia | The Jakarta Post

 

[kalu_miah]

Indonesia should move away from Defense cooperation with Korea and choose China instead for future big ticket items purchases, such as submarines and fighter planes. KAI KF-X partnership should be changed to a partnership with TAI TF-X instead. KAI KF-X has been suspended till 2014 for further review and its future is uncertain.

@Reashot Xigwin @scobydoo @xunzi
What do you guys think?

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Bangladesh are going for Chinese subs.
Pakistan and Bangladesh are also going for all Chinese fighter planes.

 

[kalu_miah]

Indonesia-China Hold Defense Consultation Meeting | Embassy of Indonesia in Oslo

Indonesia-China Hold Defense Consultation Meeting

Indonesia and China have again staged a consultation meeting to improve the two countries` relations and cooperation in the field of security and defense.

The Indonesia-China Defense Consultation Forum at the People`s Liberation Army (PLA) Headquarters was the fifth since 2007.

Indonesia`s delegation was led by deputy minister of defense Sjafrie Sjamsoeddin while the Chinese delegation was led by PLA`s deputy chief of general staff Lieutenant General Qi Jian`guo.

The meeting discussed development of the defense cooperation agreement made by the two countries in the framework of strategic partnership in April 2005.

Sjafrie Sjamsoeddin said that the meeting was initially scheduled on November 2012 but it was then postponed due to a process of leadership change in that country in the month.

Meanwhile “we also had an important agenda in that month namely a leadership meeting which had only ended yesterday,” he added.

After the Defense Consultation Forum was agreed Indonesia and China had conducted various cooperation activities such as a joint exercise between the Indonesian army and the PLA special force, exchange of officers of the two countries` military education institutions including the University of Defense.

Not only that Indonesia and China have also cooperated in Sukhoi fighter pilot training, the purchase of military hardware and in 2011 in the defense industry for the joint production of C-705 missile.

China has also offered cooperation in Mandarin language training for Indonesian army officers. The meeting was now still underway behind closed doors.

Source : Antara (10.01.13)

 

[Fsjal]

Indonesia should move away from Defense cooperation with Korea and choose China instead for future big ticket items purchases, such as submarines and fighter planes. KAI KF-X partnership should be changed to a partnership with TAI TF-X instead. KAI KF-X has been suspended till 2014 for further review and its future is uncertain.

@Reashot Xigwin @scobydoo @xunzi
What do you guys think?

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Bangladesh are going for Chinese subs.
Pakistan and Bangladesh are also going for all Chinese fighter planes.

I think Indonesia doesn't want to take side. I think they prefer neutrality.

Indonesia is a member of the Non Aligned Movement, which is a group of neutral nations not taking sides.
Non-Aligned Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[asad71]

Indonesia should move away from Defense cooperation with Korea and choose China instead for future big ticket items purchases, such as submarines and fighter planes. KAI KF-X partnership should be changed to a partnership with TAI TF-X instead. KAI KF-X has been suspended till 2014 for further review and its future is uncertain.

@Reashot Xigwin @scobydoo @xunzi
What do you guys think?

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Bangladesh are going for Chinese subs.
Pakistan and Bangladesh are also going for all Chinese fighter planes.

1.The polarization developing appears to be:

a. USA-West-Israel-India-Burma-Japan.

b. China is getting closer to the Muslims every day. She has even patched up with Turkey.

c. Russia is acting unusually shrewd. She doesn't show her cards easily. However, we need to remember a powerful Zionist lobby exists in Russia. Russian Orthodox Church is emerging strong. On the other hand Russia has historical issues with China, Turkey and European nations. Whenever she felt strong she has tried to colonize Central Asia nations, who are mostly Muslim.

2. In the sub-regional grouping, Afghanistan,Pakistan,SL,Maldives, Nepal, BD, Indonesia and Malaysia will get closer in the face of US-Indian intentions. Obviously China will encourage such grouping.

 

[kalu_miah]

1.The polarization developing appears to be:

a. USA-West-Israel-India-Burma-Japan.

b. China is getting closer to the Muslims every day. She has even patched up with Turkey.

c. Russia is acting unusually shrewd. She doesn't show her cards easily. However, we need to remember a powerful Zionist lobby exists in Russia. Russian Orthodox Church is emerging strong. On the other hand Russia has historical issues with China, Turkey and European nations. Whenever she felt strong she has tried to colonize Central Asia nations, who are mostly Muslim.

2. In the sub-regional grouping, Afghanistan,Pakistan,SL,Maldives, Nepal, BD, Indonesia and Malaysia will get closer in the face of US-Indian intentions. Obviously China will encourage such grouping.

Seems reasonable. But I am not sure about Burma/Myanmar. If they go with India-Japan-etc., China can easily destabilize that regime using the ethnic insurgencies.

 

[sahaliyan]

Seems reasonable. But I am not sure about Burma/Myanmar. If they go with India-Japan-etc., China can easily destabilize that regime using the ethnic insurgencies.

I really don't want China and Japan become enemies,when we are children,we watch the Japanese anime(at least for our generation,I born in 1989 AD),after we grew up,our popular culture influenced by the Japanese,many popular songs of our Chinese world(China,Taiwan,HongKong) came from Japan,because our race and cultural similarity is there,no one can change.Also it's very important the USA doesn't want an indepent Japan,US troops still have a base near Tokyo,if they want to protect Japan,why they didn't move those troops to the lands threated by China and North Korea?We all know those troops are uesd to control Japan,so Japanese have no choice,they should follow the America.I think the best interest for Japan is not take side,with Chinse,kick the Americans out.And with America,balance the Chinese.They can get real independency.
As for Burma,it's a pity we don't get the heart of their people,if a democratic government in power,I fear they will go for western countries.But again we have many cards to play,the people of Wa sate,the Kokangs and Kachins are pro-China,and don't like Burmese

 

[xunzi]

Indonesia should move away from Defense cooperation with Korea and choose China instead for future big ticket items purchases, such as submarines and fighter planes. KAI KF-X partnership should be changed to a partnership with TAI TF-X instead. KAI KF-X has been suspended till 2014 for further review and its future is uncertain.

@Reashot Xigwin @scobydoo @xunzi
What do you guys think?

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Bangladesh are going for Chinese subs.
Pakistan and Bangladesh are also going for all Chinese fighter planes.

Like someone said, Indonesia is one of the founder of NAM. Also South Korea had restart their KF-X project amid canceling of the FX program.