Indo Pak Maritime Strategic struggle

[S.Y.A]

fighting alone does not make you battle hardened

yeah, war in NW Pakistan obviously was a just a shooting sim.

 

[wiseone2]

yeah, war in NW Pakistan obviously was a just a shooting sim.

the terrain is not easy. fighting a few armed men is not war
it is better than sitting in the barracks and polishing your firearm

 

[StraightShooter]

If Pakistan is thinking what you have suggested than May ALLAH help us all because only ALLAH after that can save us. Sorry if we want CPEC and want bigger role it's not only we need Destroyers and VLS equipped Frigates capable of firing cruise Missiles but it's time we start thinking of develop Deep Water Navy or what ever that is called. India sooner or later will go for at least 3 Air Craft carrier groups. Lot more Destroyers and Cruise Missile firing Frigates like Talwar Class. So either we come up with answer or wait for India to decimate us completely.

The nine Kilo-class Subs of Russian origin and four HDW Subs of German-origin of Indian navy are all well past their expiry life. There is high likelyhood they would sink in an accident than an enemy fire. The Indian scorpenes program has been fully compromised even though Indian navy puts a brave face.

On the other hand Pakistan Navy operates the deadly silent hunter Agosta-90B submarines equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) and capable to launch a nuclear-capable missile Babur.

Also, Pakistan navy is procuring 8 New Stealth Attack Submarines with AIP from China. Additionally Pakistan is procuring 8 F-22P Frigates from China.

 

[tarrar]

PN should go for bigger & advanced navy ships.

 

[S.Y.A]

Pakistan navy is procuring 8 New Stealth Attack Submarines with AIP from China. Additionally Pakistan is procuring 8 F-22P Frigates from China.

Subs will begin delivery after 2020, and no credible report of procurement of F22Ps.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Waiting for the inclusion of INS Vikrant into IN.

 

[StraightShooter]

Subs will begin delivery after 2020, and no credible report of procurement of F22Ps.

4 F-22Ps have already been delivered and there are plans to procure another 4 of them.

Pakistan Navy gets fourth Chinese-built F-22P warship

http://www.firstpost.com/world/pakistan-navy-gets-fourth-chinese-built-f-22p-warship-707030.html

the size of the surface fleet has stilljumped from six to ten frigates since 2001. The last of four F-22P Zulfiquar-class frigates arrived from China in 2013. “The navy is much more capable of projecting their capabilities.” Khan argues. Six Amazon-class frigates purchased from the British Royal Navy in 1994 have been outfitted with new weapons technology: two vessels have received Chinese LY-60 surface-to-air missiles (SAM) and four others have gotten American Harpoon surface-to-surface missiles (SSM), giving Pakistan greater ability to deal with threats from the air and sea. The defense budget increased to $7 billion dollars last year, up eleven percent from 2013.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/debt-strangles-pakistan’s-naval-ambitions-12282?page=show

 

[BetterPakistan]

4 F-22Ps have already been delivered and there are plans to procure another 4 of them.

Pakistan Navy gets fourth Chinese-built F-22P warship

http://www.firstpost.com/world/pakistan-navy-gets-fourth-chinese-built-f-22p-warship-707030.html

the size of the surface fleet has stilljumped from six to ten frigates since 2001. The last of four F-22P Zulfiquar-class frigates arrived from China in 2013. “The navy is much more capable of projecting their capabilities.” Khan argues. Six Amazon-class frigates purchased from the British Royal Navy in 1994 have been outfitted with new weapons technology: two vessels have received Chinese LY-60 surface-to-air missiles (SAM) and four others have gotten American Harpoon surface-to-surface missiles (SSM), giving Pakistan greater ability to deal with threats from the air and sea. The defense budget increased to $7 billion dollars last year, up eleven percent from 2013.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/debt-strangles-pakistan’s-naval-ambitions-12282?page=show

PN is presently looking for Ada Class Corvettes and there is no news circulating regarding F-22s

 

[assassin123]

The nine Kilo-class Subs of Russian origin and four HDW Subs of German-origin of Indian navy are all well past their expiry life. There is high likelyhood they would sink in an accident than an enemy fire. The Indian scorpenes program has been fully compromised even though Indian navy puts a brave face.

On the other hand Pakistan Navy operates the deadly silent hunter Agosta-90B submarines equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) and capable to launch a nuclear-capable missile Babur.

Also, Pakistan navy is procuring 8 New Stealth Attack Submarines with AIP from China. Additionally Pakistan is procuring 8 F-22P Frigates from China.

The scorpenes class submarines are a generation ahead of the agousta 90b's.
Also some of them(last 2) will feature AIP.
During the so called leaks no critical information that compromises the capability of the sub was leaked as confirmed by France and IN. Do you really think IN will accept a sub into our force that we spent billions for buying that has been compromised.
You must realise that having 4 good submarines (2 of them being really old) does not make them deadly. A strong naval force should have a really good surface force to do anything.
For that you need much better ships than F22P with good medium range Sam.

 

[S.Y.A]

You must realise that having 4 good submarines (2 of them being really old) does not make them deadly. A strong naval force should have a really good surface force to do anything.

5 subs, 2 of them old, and 3 of them equipped with AIP, a tech India still does not possess, and as recent reports suggest, are being modernized further with the help of Turkey.

 

[StraightShooter]

The scorpenes class submarines are a generation ahead of the agousta 90b's.

But Pakistani Agosta-90Bs sport AIPs while current Indian Scorepenes do not.

Stealthy propulsion systems have always been a core element behind the secretive tactical flexibility of submarines and Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology has arguably been the holy grail of the submarines allowing a submarine to remain submerged for long periods, without the need to surface, bringing increased range and improved underwater endurance, without the high cost of nuclear propulsion.

Also some of them(last 2) will feature AIP.

India will have to wait at least until 2021 for two subs with AIP while Pakistan is already in the process of procuring additional 8 new SSKs from China while there was news that Pakistan was already training on use of Nuke sub at Karachi in preparation of the leasing of nuke subs from China.

During the so called leaks no critical information that compromises the capability of the sub was leaked as confirmed by France and IN. Do you really think IN will accept a sub into our force that we spent billions for buying that has been compromised.

What other option does IN have but to put a brave face? Do you expect IN to come out and declare that our Subs would be sitting ducks?

You must realise that having 4 good submarines (2 of them being really old) does not make them deadly. A strong naval force should have a really good surface force to do anything.

Having only Surface ships does not cut. Where are the ASW choppers? The earlier plan to procure 16 S-70B Seahawk choppers has been scrapped and IN is back to the drawing board. Project 75I too, for follow-on subs to Scorpenes, is still on paper (at RFI stage) and a long way to go.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

5 subs, 2 of them old, and 3 of them equipped with AIP, a tech India still does not possess, and as recent reports suggest, are being modernized further with the help of Turkey.

And do you reckon all 5 will be operational at any given time?

However its true that defence of Pak Navy depends upon its Submarine arm just like the Soviet Union did against USA.

 

[S.Y.A]

And do you reckon all 5 will be operational at any given time?

However its true that defence of Pak Navy depends upon its Submarine arm just like the Soviet Union did against USA.

similar logic applies to IN's submarines, not all of them will be active at once.

Still the best thing for PN surface fleet can do will be to stay within air cover, have long range SAMs, expand land based AShM systems, and extensive deployment of sonobuoys in the Pakistani EEZ to detect Indian subs.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

similar logic applies to IN's submarines, not all of them will be active at once.

Still the best thing for PN surface fleet can do will be to stay within air cover, have long range SAMs, expand land based AShM systems, and extensive deployment of sonobuoys in the Pakistani EEZ to detect Indian subs.

That's what I am telling too. My estimate is out of 15(including 2 nuke subs) 8-9 maybe operationally available at any time. PN doesnt need to have sea superiority coverage. Just defending would be enough. However even with purchase of new surface fleets the numbers wont mean for such as it has lots of old ships to be phased out.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I like your spirit, but most of the time you go overboard and your comments are far from reality.
Who doesn't want to drive a Mercedes?

You all think that sitting on a keyboard makes you more patriotic and sincere to the country, and all in uniform are just wasting time actually defending this country.

Unfortunately our political governments have their own agenda's regarding military spending and it takes a toll on military purchases, but this is not the only factor, there are many other factors in play, which affect our military acquisitions, specially after 1998.

We would never be able to match India in quantity ever, keep this in mind, similarly India would never be able to match China.

There are numerous examples in military history, when battles have been won with smaller but efficient forces.
We have one of the most capable and battle hardened army in the world, which is ready in all facets of warfare. The WOT has done damage to our society, but it has made the PA ready for any conflict.

Sher is laced with Kahir, and Khair is laced with Sher....