Indigenous HTT - 40 makes inaugural flight.

[Imran Khan]

look good for basic trainer congrats

 

[GURU DUTT]

Congratulations.

mai keya sadke sirji app te eid ka chand ho gaye ... welcome back

 

[MilSpec]

@Abingdonboy do you remember our conversation from 2014? Everyone here was tooth and nail against this b(i)tt(y) plane?

 

[Piper]

ARDC (both LCH and HTT) and compare it to ADA

Don't they have access to similar if not same pool of HR?

 

[Blue Marlin]

Already doing gear up low speed low altitude passes? Hopefully this means the bird will speed through certification and be in service VERY soon.

More pics

i was just thinking that. usually the first few flights the landing gear is down in the event of an emergency. also the exhausts are placed in a very unusual position other birds have them in the front example being the kt-1 below among the many others. also im a bit crtical on the choice of engine. the pt6 by pw is much suited for the role as its on many other airfrance in this class. the tpe331 on the htt-40 is typically used on twin engined crafts so im a bit sceptical on the engine here.

 

[MilSpec]

Don't they have access to similar if not same pool of HR?

Wow, so adobe should be doing as well as Google, right? It's about organisations, corp culture, values and vision that separates different entities.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

@Abingdonboy do you remember our conversation from 2014? Everyone here was tooth and nail against this b(i)tt(y) plane?

It's not the plane people were against, it was the idea that IAF will have to wait for almost a decade more to get it's basic trainers when Deepaks began falling off the sky like flies. The decision to go for Pilatus was absolutely correct. At least we'll have a stop gap until this thing gets certified and production (slowly) starts delivering the numbers over many many years. Our pilots won't be sitting and twiddling their thumbs till then.

@MilSpec by November the 75th Pilatus was already in service training our pilots. Are you suggesting that the IAF should keep their pilots warming their chair while HAL with it's 'heroic' decision coming a decade after it should have been taken gets its act together?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...g-aircraft-pc-7-mkii/articleshow/49737603.cms

 

[MilSpec]

It's not the plane people were against, it was the idea that IAF will have to wait for almost a decade more to get it's basic trainers when Deepaks began falling off the sky like flies. The decision to go for Pilatus was absolutely correct. At least we'll have a stop gap until this thing gets certified and production (slowly) starts delivering the numbers over many many years. Our pilots won't be sitting and twiddling their thumbs till then.

@MilSpec by November the 75th Pilatus was already in service training our pilots. Are you suggesting that the IAF should keep their pilots warming their chair while HAL with it's 'heroic' decision coming a decade after it should have been taken gets its act together?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...g-aircraft-pc-7-mkii/articleshow/49737603.cms

HAL was not given the funding required for the HTT40, it was asked to do the feasibility analysis, and asked shelve the project. HAL took it upon itself to bring this project to life. IAF/MoD did not wan't HAL to do work in this arena..

And by that logic, lets also shelve LCA, ALH, LCH, Arjun, Astra, etc. There are options available off the shelf.

For the tenth time, read : HAL's AOP and Product road-map is guided by MoD, where forces are in advisory role. HAL's development mandate comes from the MoD/IAF. a BTT was never a technically challenging project like the LCA (albiet not a HAL project), the question needs to be asked to the Directorate of Defense Production, why this was not made a into a strategic project when it has been repeatedly included in AOP requisitions from the year 2003 especially when we have been making this powerplant since 1988.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

HAL was not given the funding required for the HTT40, it was asked to do the feasibility analysis, and asked shelve the project. HAL took it upon itself to bring this project to life. IAF/MoD did not wan't HAL to do work in this arena..

And by that logic, lets also shelve LCA, ALH, LCH, Arjun, Astra, etc. There are options available off the shelf.

For the tenth time, read : HAL's AOP and Product road-map is guided by MoD, where forces are in advisory role. HAL's development mandate comes from the MoD/IAF. a BTT was never a technically challenging project like the LCA (albiet not a HAL project), the question needs to be asked to the Directorate of Defense Production, why this was not made a into a strategic project when it has been repeatedly included in AOP requisitions from the year 2003 especially when we have been making this powerplant since 1988.

yeah right and what was 'brave' HAL doing 15 years ago when Deepak's were already obsolete? They have always had the money to break out to the HTT. They didn't coz they thought this will go the old route- some plane will be bought and it'l be 'assembled' or 'maintained' here making it another cash cow.

And why should IAF place any faith in them BTW? The first intremediate trainer 'sitara' flew in 2002. WHere is it now? They failed so miserably in fundamental design that 13 years later it still hasn't moved beyond prototype. Which plane did HAL ever design on it's own? LCA was ADA, they struggled through the whole damn muck while HAL repeatedly remained unenthusiastic about it. IAF doesn't have to give HAL any vote of confidence coz HAL has not delivered on anything at all as far as design and development of fixed wing Ac are concerned.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy do you remember our conversation from 2014? Everyone here was tooth and nail against this b(i)tt(y) plane?

As @Guynextdoor2 has pointed out, I think the opposition (if it can be called that) was with operational requirements of the IAF in mind. As it stands HAL seemingly doing an impressive job in operationalising the HTT-40 so we may have been unduly Pessimistic at the time. HOWEVER let's see how long it takes to get this bird in service on a large scale, the outstanding requirement is quite vast.


I doubt many here are at all disappointed to see these developments, it ks certainly good that India's defence portfolio is growing.

yeah right and what was 'brave' HAL doing 15 years ago when Deepak's were already obsolete? They have always had the money to break out to the HTT. They didn't coz they thought this will go the old route- some plane will be bought and it'l be 'assembled' or 'maintained' here making it another cash cow.

And why should IAF place any faith in them BTW? The first intremediate trainer 'sitara' flew in 2002. WHere is it now? They failed so miserably in fundamental design that 13 years later it still hasn't moved beyond prototype. Which plane did HAL ever design on it's own? LCA was ADA, they struggled through the whole damn muck while HAL repeatedly remained unenthusiastic about it. IAF doesn't have to give HAL any vote of confidence coz HAL has not delivered on anything at all as far as design and development of fixed wing Ac are concerned.

Here's hoping HAL have turned a corner, they have funded the LCH TD4 and HTT-40 entirely out of their own pocket. Past failure does not mean future failure and vice versa, I do honestly believe HAL are reforming themselves under pressure from all stakeholders and with a more and more competitive environment it is becoming a necessity for them.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

As @Guynextdoor2 has pointed out, I think the opposition (if it can be called that) was with operational requirements of the IAF in mind. As it stands HAL seemingly doing an impressive job in operationalising the HTT-40 so we may have been unduly Pessimistic at the time. HOWEVER let's see how long it takes to get this bird in service on a large scale, the outstanding requirement is quite vast.


I doubt many here are at all disappointed to see these developments, it ks certainly good that India's defence portfolio is growing.


Here's hoping HAL have turned a corner, they have funded the LCH TD4 and HTT-40 entirely out of their own pocket. Past failure does not mean future failure and vice versa, I do honestly believe HAL are reforming themselves under pressure from all stakeholders and with a more and more competitive environment it is becoming a necessity for them.

Yes, I also think it's market pressure doing it's magic. Private players and increasingly favorable attitude of the government towards them is pushing HAL to get risky and invest to protect its future.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Yes, I also think it's market pressure doing it's magic. Private players and increasingly favorable attitude of the government towards them is pushing HAL to get risky and invest to protect its future.

And this will only benefit the user and the nation as a whole. It's funny that there is little evidence that the private sector is seeing greater access to the market as of now but clearly these are the winds that are blowing and HAL is getting ahead of the curve and making a case for themselves going forward. The HTT-40, LCH and LUH could showcase what HAL can do when they are given proper support and left to their own devices.

 

[GuardianRED]

yeah right and what was 'brave' HAL doing 15 years ago when Deepak's were already obsolete? They have always had the money to break out to the HTT. They didn't coz they thought this will go the old route- some plane will be bought and it'l be 'assembled' or 'maintained' here making it another cash cow.

And why should IAF place any faith in them BTW? The first intremediate trainer 'sitara' flew in 2002. WHere is it now? They failed so miserably in fundamental design that 13 years later it still hasn't moved beyond prototype. Which plane did HAL ever design on it's own? LCA was ADA, they struggled through the whole damn muck while HAL repeatedly remained unenthusiastic about it. IAF doesn't have to give HAL any vote of confidence coz HAL has not delivered on anything at all as far as design and development of fixed wing Ac are concerned.

Bro , While i totally agree with you regarding the reason to buy the PC7 and that HAL has alot to give US in confidence in terms of delivery - eg : IJT36

HAL is not a total Loss - u have to remember that they built and design the HAL Ajeet (Single and 2 seater - when the OEM hasn't built one), the Kirans, - Dhruvs , etc

Still i will take the flight of the HTT40 with salt and wait., if they do deliver as promised - excellent , if not - we told u so

I do have a question - lets say HTT40 gets inducted, other than maintenance issue (2 types in service) - Does it affect the training of pilots ? is it after all - learning to fly and instrument training?? etc?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I do have a question - lets say HTT40 gets inducted, other than maintenance issue (2 types in service) - Does it affect the training of pilots ? is it after all - learning to fly and instrument training?? etc

It won't be much of an issue at all. This is the most basic stage of training to teach the basics of flight, navigation, airmanship etc. For systems training they will undergo simulator training and more advanced mission training on the AJT and OCU.

 

[MilSpec]

yeah right and what was 'brave' HAL doing 15 years ago when Deepak's were already obsolete? They have always had the money to break out to the HTT. They didn't coz they thought this will go the old route- some plane will be bought and it'l be 'assembled' or 'maintained' here making it another cash cow.

And why should IAF place any faith in them BTW? The first intremediate trainer 'sitara' flew in 2002. WHere is it now? They failed so miserably in fundamental design that 13 years later it still hasn't moved beyond prototype. Which plane did HAL ever design on it's own? LCA was ADA, they struggled through the whole damn muck while HAL repeatedly remained unenthusiastic about it. IAF doesn't have to give HAL any vote of confidence coz HAL has not delivered on anything at all as far as design and development of fixed wing Ac are concerned.

Same reason why you haven't designed assault rifles for Indian Army, because you are not given the mandate to do so. When HAL was given the mandate, ARDC delivered on HJT 16, Mig21Bison, MKI, Mig27 undercarriage, ALH, LCH, and yes IJT was a dismal project by HAL, It is unfortunate that IJT did not pan outthe way we thought it would. I have tremendous respect for Baldy sir as Pilot, but yes IJT was a failure and saddens me that his efforts went to waste , but let me say this, there is still hopes that the project can be revived.

The same IAF did not complain about the HJT 16 for 40 years, also designed by HAL btw.