Indigenous AAM for PAF

[untitled]

I think PL-15 is kind of over kill

Not when the meteor arrives next door

 

[GeraltofRivia]

Ok since I am actually bored and annoyed Af, from this moronic discussion whether F-16 was shot down(it isn't get over it.), the real question is what are we doing A2A missile Platform.
Because I was kind a worried when PAF said that Pakistan has took the emergency shipment of 100 PL-15, I mean its good and all but, what are we doing on that field, when are we going to seriously pursue this tech, because if any thing I understood, there is something IAF had that our current SD-10 can not hit what was the emergency.View attachment 551937 View attachment 551938

Producing a modern AAM is a very large scale project that requires a highly advanced defense industry base. Europe’s Meteor is a good example and the development project is well documented in Wikipedia. It involved the most leading European aerospace companies like MBDA, Bayern-Cherie, Inmize and Saab. It was estimated that over 250 companies across Europe were involved. This is a reflection of how much expertise is required for the work. Obviously a project of this kind requires massive amount of fund to start with.

 

[war&peace]

I think PL-15 is kind of over kill we need to develop our own A2A for our requirements

No, it is not ...

 

[khansaheeb]

R-77... you have several other A2A missiles... why don't try to REVERSE ENGINEER AIM-120 or PL-15...

Reverse engineering is not that easy...



But does it match the CAPABILITIES of Tomahawk?

It's easier to design and develop from scratch than reverse engineer unless their is some specific item that needs a shortcut. to resolve.

 

[Beethoven]

you dont always have to reinvent the wheel...look at the available tech in the market and go for JV with one of them...Turkey is an example...they are developing AAM's for TFX both WVR and BVR...we can approach them for our requirements

 

[Blueskiez 2001]

Its all about priority - yess you want to be independent in all the defence related fields. But you will also know where your limits are. Ppl often don´t realize that it takes hard work and experience and resources to setup new technology.

Why didn´t Pakistan go for 100% home produktion of JF-17? Simple: start in the small - get experience and then build on that.

So getting inhouse A2A missile production will probably done when Pakistan has gained the necessary experience

 

[CriticalThought]

It is wrong to say there is no publicly available information about indigenous AAM. There is at least circumstantial evidence in the form of Chinese provided test range in Sonmiani which provides a hint about indigenous activities. If I remember correctly, a BVR and WVR were tested at Sonmiani, and no specifics were given about the missiles.

In terms of various components such as seeker, guidance etc, the following should be noted:

1. Indigenous production of night vision equipment.
2. The intersection with Babur for guidance system.
3. The GPS guidance on Nasr.

There is no reason why Pakistan couldn't put together an AAM if needed.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I didn't find not a single research or an article that Pakistan is developing this Indigenous capability.

we r developing both WVR and BVR missiles of 5th gen class since 2016 atleast for Project Azm and will be used on JF17 project too.

Its all about priority - yess you want to be independent in all the defence related fields. But you will also know where your limits are. Ppl often don´t realize that it takes hard work and experience and resources to setup new technology.

Why didn´t Pakistan go for 100% home produktion of JF-17? Simple: start in the small - get experience and then build on that.

So getting inhouse A2A missile production will probably done when Pakistan has gained the necessary experience

hahaha bro u can say that since yr from Denmark, a small country population wise and hence resources wise and talent wise as well. So i can see where yr coming from with this argument. I do agree on priority though.

Pakistan is the 5th largest country on the planet population wise, which is 220 million. We can find out of box solutions which are better and cheaper then followed in contemporary world.

Research about Project Azm. Its a clean Sheet Design 5th gen fighter project of Pakistan (indigenous.)

With JF17 things r different, its a joint venture, and Pakistan owns and manufactures 58% of it and rest is Chinese ownership and manufacturing responsibility. To manufacture more then 58% we will need to buy the Chinese shares in the project.

The range was the issue mate, nothing else and emergency was to have greater range.
The SD-10's and AMRAAM's we had already out range anything india has, and we easily blinded their SU-30's with the AEW&C's...
Now with PL-15 we can hit them even from like 20 km's away from the border while they are also 20 - 30 kilometer inside theirs.
Kinda like nightmare scenario for them.


And yes, I've already tried to stres sthe need for an indegeniously developed Air to Air missile, specially when we already have Ground to Air munitions that can be easily converted for a start.

hahaha kaka g pl15 range is 150km, and according to Americans thats 400km.......take yr pick, whatever that is, its not mere 20km from inside our borders and 20-30 km inside their's.

 

[War Thunder]

hahaha kka g pl15 range is 150km, and according to Americans thats 400km.......take yr pick, whatever that is, its not mere 20km from inside our borders and 20-30 km inside their's.

Well uncle. If you had ever taken some time to learn and understand how air to air engagements work, and how a missile of certain range would only be effective at a certain distance when engaging head on, and when engaging from tail, and its kill zone will be far restricted than how long it can fly. You would know what I'm talking about, but some people won't ever use their brain to learn, specially when they are a very old member of a "Defence Forum", but more so to talk. No?

And when I'm talking about 20 - 30 KM's from within our borders, or 20 - 30 KM's inside theirs, I'm adding the travel distance and distance of enemy aircraft from the border, and their ability to fire after burners and evade the incoming missile.


Goodluck tracking an aircraft 400 KM's inside the enemy border and shooting at them...

 

[Blueskiez 2001]

Salaam Umair

I agree with you - the path Pakistan has taken to become self reliant is a wise one. If they had taken another part (not to mention one neighbor which projects has known to failures) things may have gone south.

Pakistan will should go for A2A missile production when the necessary know-how and infrastructure is at place.

With jf-17 i have been following the project so i know whats what.

I cant see why beeing from Denmark has any point in this discussion. By the way Denmark´s GDP is higher than pakistan so there must be something Denmark are doing better than Pakistan. So Pakistan should take the good things from Denmark and leave the bad things (like danish culture).

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Well uncle. If you had ever taken some time to learn and understand how air to air engagements work, and how a missile of certain range would only be effective at a certain distance when engaging head on, and when engaging from tail, and its kill zone will be far restricted than how long it can fly. You would know what I'm talking about, but some people won't ever use their brain to learn, specially when they are a very old member of a "Defence Forum", but more so to talk. No?

And when I'm talking about 20 - 30 KM's from within our borders, or 20 - 30 KM's inside theirs, I'm adding the travel distance and distance of enemy aircraft from the border, and their ability to fire after burners and evade the incoming missile.


Goodluck tracking an aircraft 400 KM's inside the enemy border and shooting at them...

lala g 27 feb PAF scored the longest BVR kill in history ie Su30 in Badgam just outside Srinagar, which makes it longer then previous longest kill of mere 60km..... It was about 70 or 80 km range kill.

agr kisi ny long range kill score he nahi ki the to iss main BVR ya usski effectiveness ka kasur nai ha.

 

[50cent]

Impossible Pakistan even lacks semi.condictor chips technology a2a missiles required higly advanced resarch labotries

 

[War Thunder]

lala g 27 feb PAF scored the longest BVR kill in history ie Su30 in Badgam just outside Srinagar, which makes it longer then previous longest kill of mere 60km..... It was about 70 or 80 km range kill.

agr kisi ny long range kill score he nahi ki the to iss main BVR ya usski effectiveness ka kasur nai ha.

Re read my comment. Because you're still avoiding some knowledge and comprehension and trying to walk around it.
There are things called "Detection range and radius", Target Acquisistion, and Engagement range and radius.

How do you plan on acquiring aircraft flying 400KM's inside hostile territory, without taking your own Sensors inside theirs?

You can't simply sit in Islamabad, and take out an enemy aircraft over Delhi. It doesn't work like that and its better to spend some time understanding how things work, instead of just fantasizing on how they should.



Coming down to SU-30MKI kill. There is no data on where and how it was killed. So every thing is mere speculation and fiction.

Impossible Pakistan even lacks semi.condictor chips technology a2a missiles required higly advanced resarch labotries

Dude, are you Ok?
Look up ANZA

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Salaam Umair

I agree with you - the path Pakistan has taken to become self reliant is a wise one. If they had taken another part (not to mention one neighbor which projects has known to failures) things may have gone south.

Pakistan will should go for A2A missile production when the necessary know-how and infrastructure is at place.

With jf-17 i have been following the project so i know whats what.

I cant see why beeing from Denmark has any point in this discussion. By the way Denmark´s GDP is higher than pakistan so there must be something Denmark are doing better than Pakistan. So Pakistan should take the good things from Denmark and leave the bad things (like danish culture).

Bro im not trying to offend u or making fun of Denmark's size. I know in education, technology, standard of living wise and not just total GDP but per capita wise its far ahead of Pakistan. I have been to Copenhagen lets just say i found a nice girl from Denmark on facebook once. I have seen the art, history and Culture too personally.

What im talking abt is Talent pool wise which directly has bearing on the population size......We still discover new style of engineers who have different types of solutions which are not accepted or r followed in Western or contemporary World. But here we can utilize them and their unorthodox methods in achieving certain goals set for them in a project. In this regard, we focus on out of box and cheaper solutions. We prefer those engineers who can bring this to us and get the job done without compromising on the performance of the machine itself and project's set objectives.

Pakistan is the 7th largest exporter of Doctors and Engineers to the world. Here to get a PhD u need to write about 400 research papers atleast. Here even University PhD professor have about 500-700 at average research papers written by them. Compare that with some western universities where u even get PhD after only 7-8 research papers.

This is how we maintain the quality standards here, we took this concept from China itself.....

We have this luxury or advantage over any country smaller then ours and yes this same goes for India vs Pakistan scenario too(its just that engineering quality and project management is better here and i told u why it is). Any Small country will always be at disadvantage because its limits will reach more quicker then any larger one's. This goes without saying bro.

Now regarding the path and priority......Well bro with Project Azm we r now taking that Indian Teja's path we r developing it from scratch....in there we have china only this time assisting us on the project not a stakeholder......just as in LCA Tejas project France is/has been assisting India all along. Even tejas design is Mirage3/5's design.

 

[war&peace]

Not when the meteor arrives next door

Not with meteor but with S400, PL-15 will play an important role.