What's new

India's UNMANNED BOMBER Aircraft Confirmed

what stupid logic here, but it is from you not faithfulguy.

IAF is a highly corrupt air force well known for it is very high crash rate. It is decision on which jet to choose is largely based on the kick back amount.

can't you read? "expected". what this mean? is there any real enforcement for such deadline?

how many extensions LCA and that dead engine had? 5 or 6 for a total of 30 years?

If you want to argue with me, then tell me any single major indian defense project that didn't get significantly delayed.

Oh Man Taiwan got failed F-16 from US , yet??

A) what about ABM? do Taiwan have ABM system in place? or still relay on US system which is not 100% perfect?

Why do Chinese make engine WS-10/ WS-10A /WS-10B, WS-13; WS13A/ WS-13B etc because their engine failed . Therefore to hide failure they came with A,B,C thing.

WS-10 and WS-13 has failed , thats why you came with WS-10A, WS-13A, those also failed , then you came with WS-10B and WS-13B.

Stop hiding your engine failure in name A,B,C

Tell which plane uses your WS-13 and WS10? don't go on A,B,C model
 
.
Why is it that India sends its engine for testing in Russia?

Don't tell me that India lacks the means to conduct the necessary tests in its laboratories, for it would be asking too much of a nation to build an engine if it isn't even able to test one.
 
.
Oh Man Taiwan got failed F-16 from US , yet??

A) what about ABM? do Taiwan have ABM system in place? or still relay on US system which is not 100% perfect?

Why do Chinese make engine WS-10/ WS-10A /WS-10B, WS-13; WS13A/ WS-13B etc because their engine failed . Therefore to hide failure they came with A,B,C thing.

WS-10 and WS-13 has failed , thats why you came with WS-10A, WS-13A, those also failed , then you came with WS-10B and WS-13B.

Stop hiding your engine failure in name A,B,C

Tell which plane uses your WS-13 and WS10? don't go on A,B,C model

Oh my God, man! You need to do a LOT of research before you talk! Your stupidity is out of control here! A B C variant means it failed??? How many AMRAAM variants are there in the US arsenal? A-D. How many different models of AL-31 are there? AL-31F, FP, FM, FM1, FM2, etc... There is F-15A, B, C, D, E, SE, etc... How many different flankers are there? Having A, B, C designations mean that the design continues to improve. You seriously need to stop talking cus you just embarrass yourself every time you say something.

China can't design aircraft carriers but India can??? Where do you find that? Show me an indigenously built Indian aircraft carrier sailing in the sea. You can' t, because there are none. Once again, you have no idea what the F you're talking about.

Here is a quote from you. "Kavari already achieved 49.2 =50KN, only wet thrust need little fine tuning." Do you know how stupid this sentence is? First of all 49.2 does not equal 50. That's why they're different numbers, fool! Why would you say 49.2=50? Is that not clearly wrong in your mind? You just though 50 sounds better. This shows how Indians don't care about quality and they like to brag about garbage. "Oh, it's actually 49.2kN? Whatever, round up to 50. Sounds better. Chinese prototype produces 51.2? Round down to 50. So now we're even. Job well done, fellas!" And what do you mean, the wet thrust just needs "a little" tuning? Then tune it, retard! Go do a little tuning! You can't! All the engineers in India can't because everybody knows that it's hard as shiiaat trying to make a 70kN engine produce 81kN, so they gave the F up and took out the afterburner completely! It doesn't need a little tuning; it needs massive improvement through long and hard research! This shows you like to sweep problems under the rug and pretend it's not there.

Chinese engines didn't improve since 2009? The 2009 quote says WS-10 only works for 30 hours. Factually, WS-10A is in service. So you are assuming that the Chinese have put an engine that lasts 30 hours into service? You love to just lie to make yourself feel good, huh? I can't find real figures on it because the Chinese are very secretive on their military. The proof that it improved is that it's in service. Your claim that the Chinese put things in service before testing them is something else you just pulled out of your a55. J-20 is testing now, not in service. J-10 was in testing from 1986 to about 2005, then it went in service. Get it? So hard for the retarded.

"if your engine expect that you know DRY thrust is more important then wet thrust" Something else stupid that you said. First of all, your English is atrocious. All WVR use afterburner to maneuver around the other jet. This is the most important part of being a fighter jet. The avionics and missiles can be carried by an AWAC (which would carry better radar and more weapons) but we need fighter jets because they can move like a bat outta hell and that requires afterburner. No afterburner means you can't position yourself to take a shot. The other guy will always be in a good position because his afterburners get him on your 6 o'clock and you can't shake him without afterburners. If you fly a fighter with no afterburner, you might as well fly a Cessna with 2 missiles attached into battle or shoot missiles from AWACs. You thought dry thrust is more important because jets normally fly with dry thrust when there are no enemies and most of the time, there are no enemies and thus no reason to dart around with the afterburner. But a fighter really only becomes important when the fight happens, no?

If you said anything more stupid than currently, you would have to say something like, "Engines aren't important; wings are important. Aircraft cannot fly without wings." LOL You need to learn a lot about jets, man. Jets and ships LOL
 
.
Why is it that India sends its engine for testing in Russia?

Don't tell me that India lacks the means to conduct the necessary tests in its laboratories, for it would be asking too much of a nation to build an engine if it isn't even able to test one.

Flying Tests are not conducted in laboratories .
 
.
Flying Tests are not conducted in laboratories .

It's not a flying test! It's a static wind tunnel and thrust production test, which requires a very complex laboratory facility. Flying tests need the engine to be mounted to an aircraft, which no one has yet done for the Kaveri because it never got close to 80kN on the static.
 
.
It's not a flying test! It's a static wind tunnel and thrust production test, which requires a very complex laboratory facility. Flying tests need the engine to be mounted to an aircraft, which no one has yet done for the Kaveri because it never got close to 80kN on the static.

Read the link ....Press Information Bureau English Releases :wave:


Kaveri-2.png



DSC03705.JPG



IMG_6009-789594.JPG
 
. .
My mistake, I was wrong. So the Kaveri has powered an aircraft before, except it's 1 of 4 engines on an IL-76. That's better than what I'd though before. I learned something today. Thanks

It's how all engines are tested . First on a testbed .

Here is a chinese IL76 testbed .

Il-76_testbed.jpg
 
.
Oh my God, man! You need to do a LOT of research before you talk! Your stupidity is out of control here! A B C variant means it failed??? How many AMRAAM variants are there in the US arsenal? A-D. How many different models of AL-31 are there? AL-31F, FP, FM, FM1, FM2, etc... There is F-15A, B, C, D, E, SE, etc... How many different flankers are there? Having A, B, C designations mean that the design continues to improve. You seriously need to stop talking cus you just embarrass yourself every time you say something.
A) You have to study, if you talking about AL-31F, FM, FM1 means all series of AL-31 used to fly planes for a particular period of time.

B) ARRMS varient all varient used and when 1st varied used for particular time then second variant came and then 3rd.

What Chinese did WS-10 and WS-13 engine but didn't use it , then came with WS-10A / WS-13A engine which somewhat used but not successful then they came with WS-13B/WS-10B engine but claim that their original WS-10/WS-13 and Ws-10A/WS-13B successful

Did you used original WS-10 or WS-13 engine? why? because when WS-10 or WS-13 engine failed you said we will develop and use WS-13A and WS-10A and use it , Which of your plane using WS-10/WS-13 engine, with A or B model?

We can made Kaveri is successful , now we will make kaveri-A and will use A model and after that we will make Kaveri-B

Our Kaveri engine is equal to your WS-10 , now we are making equal to WS-10A equivalent.

China can't design aircraft carriers but India can??? Where do you find that? Show me an indigenously built Indian aircraft carrier sailing in the sea. You can' t, because there are none. Once again, you have no idea what the F you're talking about.

Both AC
Well INS Vikrant: laid Down :2009, On 29 December 2011, the completed hull of the carrier was first floated out of its dry dock

INS Vishal: Laid down : 17 July 2012 (started construction)

Well these both are design and build by Indians, but as per Chinese knowledge , ship can start building first and then later it can designed. :)) oh man i cant stop laughfing at the knowledge of ship designing.

It proves India can Design and Build AC, if india can't deisgn then these both ship will not be present
Update your knowledge, Can you show any Chinese AC design and building with pics?

Here is a quote from you. "Kavari already achieved 49.2 =50KN, only wet thrust need little fine tuning." Do you know how stupid this sentence is? First of all 49.2 does not equal 50. That's why they're different numbers, fool! Why would you say 49.2=50? Is that not clearly wrong in your mind? You just though 50 sounds better. This shows how Indians don't care about quality and they like to brag about garbage. "Oh, it's actually 49.2kN? Whatever, round up to 50. Sounds better. Chinese prototype produces 51.2? Round down to 50. So now we're even. Job well done, fellas!" And what do you mean, the wet thrust just needs "a little" tuning? Then tune it, retard! Go do a little tuning! You can't! All the engineers in India can't because everybody knows that it's hard as shiiaat trying to make a 70kN engine produce 81kN, so they gave the F up and took out the afterburner completely! It doesn't need a little tuning; it needs massive improvement through long and hard research! This shows you like to sweep problems under the rug and pretend it's not there.

you know anything about Wet and Dry thrust at all? Fist understand what is wet and Dry thrust, then come arguing. Well 1KN will not matter at all.

Now look the both plane status:
LCA
Empty weight: 6,560 kg
Loaded weight: 9,500 kg
Max. takeoff weight: 13,300 kg
Dry thrust: 53.9 kN (GE engine)
Thrust with afterburner: 85 kN (GE engine)

JF-17:
Empty weight: 6,586 kg
Loaded weight: 9,100 kg
Max. takeoff weight: 12,383 kg
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov RD-93 or WS-13 turbofan (testing phase)
Dry thrust: 49.4 kN[17] / 51.2 kN (11,106 lbf / 11,510 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 84.5 kN

Now both Plane is flying in current status, which clearly shows LCA is far superior in then JF-17 in current stage.

Now even blind can understand , If Kaveri with 49.2 KN (Dry) thrust can make it equivalent of your JF-17 as of present. now you argue of 0.2 N (Dry Thrust) well for that ,LCA is also few Kg lighter then Jf-17.

Now both planes have equivalent wet thrust but LCA can carry more load of 600+ then JF-17 that is because of DRY thrust in combination of Wet thrust.

Regarding Wet Thrust (afterburner ) which required fine turning because After burning required for very short period and afterburner technology utilises by providing more fuel to engines

Afterburning is achieved by injecting additional fuel into the jet pipe downstream of (i.e. after) the turbine. The advantage of afterburning is significantly increased thrust; the disadvantage is its very high fuel consumption and inefficiency, though this is often regarded as acceptable for the short periods during which it is usually used.
Afterburner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So its not a big deal to fine tune little fuel supply to get afterburner will 80+ KN thrust .it only a matter of fuel supply. All these shows you Chinese don't know anything about technology and always talk bla bla.

AC design and After burning proves that you don't know anything on Ship designing /Engine technology at all.

During this test the Kaveri did well, generating 49.2 KiloNewtons (KN) of “dry thrust”, marginally less than its target of 51 KN. But there was a serious shortfall in “wet thrust”; the Kaveri generated just 70.4 KN, well short of the targeted 81 KN.

[“Dry thrust” refers to the standard output of an engine in routine flight. “Wet thrust” refers to the enhanced output that is generated when the fighter requires maximum power, e.g. during take-off or in aerial combat. Termed “lighting the afterburner”, this is achieved by pumping fuel into the engine’s exhaust.]

Now you see the how Wet Thrust can be achieved? US engine give more DRY thrust and but Less Wet thrust because to save fuel but russian engine give low dry thrust but High Wet thrust and uses more fuel also.

Wet thrust can be easily manage and fine tune.

Chinese engines didn't improve since 2009? The 2009 quote says WS-10 only works for 30 hours. Factually, WS-10A is in service. So you are assuming that the Chinese have put an engine that lasts 30 hours into service? You love to just lie to make yourself feel good, huh? I can't find real figures on it because the Chinese are very secretive on their military. The proof that it improved is that it's in service. Your claim that the Chinese put things in service before testing them is something else you just pulled out of your a55. J-20 is testing now, not in service. J-10 was in testing from 1986 to about 2005, then it went in service. Get it? So hard for the retarded.

So you Admit that your WS-10 engine failed , thats why you came with Ws-10A engine? right? J-10 was testing for 20 years , wow , longest teasing.

On 2 April 2009, the director of AVIC (Aviation Industry Corporation of China) Lin Zuoming (林左鸣), stated that there were problems with the quality control procedures on the WS-10A production line, meaning the Taihang turbofan was still of unsatisfactory quality. He said that solving these problems would be a key step. In addition to poor build quality, the engines suffered from poor reliability, the Chinese engines have been lasting 30 hours at a time vs 400 for the Russian originals.

He is talking about WS-10A model and not WS-10 is alredy dead long ago

"if your engine expect that you know DRY thrust is more important then wet thrust" Something else stupid that you said. First of all, your English is atrocious. All WVR use afterburner to maneuver around the other jet. This is the most important part of being a fighter jet. The avionics and missiles can be carried by an AWAC (which would carry better radar and more weapons) but we need fighter jets because they can move like a bat outta hell and that requires afterburner. No afterburner means you can't position yourself to take a shot. The other guy will always be in a good position because his afterburners get him on your 6 o'clock and you can't shake him without afterburners. If you fly a fighter with no afterburner, you might as well fly a Cessna with 2 missiles attached into battle or shoot missiles from AWACs. You thought dry thrust is more important because jets normally fly with dry thrust when there are no enemies and most of the time, there are no enemies and thus no reason to dart around with the afterburner. But a fighter really only becomes important when the fight happens, no?

If you said anything more stupid than currently, you would have to say something like, "Engines aren't important; wings are important. Aircraft cannot fly without wings." LOL You need to learn a lot about jets, man. Jets and ships LOL

Well I said , that Afterburner trust can be easily increase by providing extra fuel , the engine core thing is its DRY thrust , thrust with afterburners can increase easily later also.Moreover plane uses 80% of engine on Dry Thrust. and only 20 uses (wet thrust) .
 
.
Why is it that India sends its engine for testing in Russia?

Don't tell me that India lacks the means to conduct the necessary tests in its laboratories, for it would be asking too much of a nation to build an engine if it isn't even able to test one.

Well India, has all necessary test in labs , only for flying bed it use russian help.
 
.
A) You have to study, if you talking about AL-31F, FM, FM1 means all series of AL-31 used to fly planes for a particular period of time.

B) ARRMS varient all varient used and when 1st varied used for particular time then second variant came and then 3rd.

What Chinese did WS-10 and WS-13 engine but didn't use it , then came with WS-10A / WS-13A engine which somewhat used but not successful then they came with WS-13B/WS-10B engine but claim that their original WS-10/WS-13 and Ws-10A/WS-13B successful

Did you used original WS-10 or WS-13 engine? why? because when WS-10 or WS-13 engine failed you said we will develop and use WS-13A and WS-10A and use it , Which of your plane using WS-10/WS-13 engine, with A or B model?

We can made Kaveri is successful , now we will make kaveri-A and will use A model and after that we will make Kaveri-B

Our Kaveri engine is equal to your WS-10 , now we are making equal to WS-10A equivalent.



Both AC
Well INS Vikrant: laid Down :2009, On 29 December 2011, the completed hull of the carrier was first floated out of its dry dock

INS Vishal: Laid down : 17 July 2012 (started construction)

Well these both are design and build by Indians, but as per Chinese knowledge , ship can start building first and then later it can designed. :)) oh man i cant stop laughfing at the knowledge of ship designing.

It proves India can Design and Build AC, if india can't deisgn then these both ship will not be present
Update your knowledge, Can you show any Chinese AC design and building with pics?



you know anything about Wet and Dry thrust at all? Fist understand what is wet and Dry thrust, then come arguing. Well 1KN will not matter at all.

Now look the both plane status:
LCA
Empty weight: 6,560 kg
Loaded weight: 9,500 kg
Max. takeoff weight: 13,300 kg
Dry thrust: 53.9 kN (GE engine)
Thrust with afterburner: 85 kN (GE engine)

JF-17:
Empty weight: 6,586 kg
Loaded weight: 9,100 kg
Max. takeoff weight: 12,383 kg
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov RD-93 or WS-13 turbofan (testing phase)
Dry thrust: 49.4 kN[17] / 51.2 kN (11,106 lbf / 11,510 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 84.5 kN

Now both Plane is flying in current status, which clearly shows LCA is far superior in then JF-17 in current stage.

Now even blind can understand , If Kaveri with 49.2 KN (Dry) thrust can make it equivalent of your JF-17 as of present. now you argue of 0.2 N (Dry Thrust) well for that ,LCA is also few Kg lighter then Jf-17.

Now both planes have equivalent wet thrust but LCA can carry more load of 600+ then JF-17 that is because of DRY thrust in combination of Wet thrust.

Regarding Wet Thrust (afterburner ) which required fine turning because After burning required for very short period and afterburner technology utilises by providing more fuel to engines

Afterburning is achieved by injecting additional fuel into the jet pipe downstream of (i.e. after) the turbine. The advantage of afterburning is significantly increased thrust; the disadvantage is its very high fuel consumption and inefficiency, though this is often regarded as acceptable for the short periods during which it is usually used.
Afterburner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So its not a big deal to fine tune little fuel supply to get afterburner will 80+ KN thrust .it only a matter of fuel supply. All these shows you Chinese don't know anything about technology and always talk bla bla.

AC design and After burning proves that you don't know anything on Ship designing /Engine technology at all.

During this test the Kaveri did well, generating 49.2 KiloNewtons (KN) of “dry thrust”, marginally less than its target of 51 KN. But there was a serious shortfall in “wet thrust”; the Kaveri generated just 70.4 KN, well short of the targeted 81 KN.

[“Dry thrust” refers to the standard output of an engine in routine flight. “Wet thrust” refers to the enhanced output that is generated when the fighter requires maximum power, e.g. during take-off or in aerial combat. Termed “lighting the afterburner”, this is achieved by pumping fuel into the engine’s exhaust.]

Now you see the how Wet Thrust can be achieved? US engine give more DRY thrust and but Less Wet thrust because to save fuel but russian engine give low dry thrust but High Wet thrust and uses more fuel also.

Wet thrust can be easily manage and fine tune.



So you Admit that your WS-10 engine failed , thats why you came with Ws-10A engine? right? J-10 was testing for 20 years , wow , longest teasing.

On 2 April 2009, the director of AVIC (Aviation Industry Corporation of China) Lin Zuoming (林左鸣), stated that there were problems with the quality control procedures on the WS-10A production line, meaning the Taihang turbofan was still of unsatisfactory quality. He said that solving these problems would be a key step. In addition to poor build quality, the engines suffered from poor reliability, the Chinese engines have been lasting 30 hours at a time vs 400 for the Russian originals.

He is talking about WS-10A model and not WS-10 is alredy dead long ago



Well I said , that Afterburner trust can be easily increase by providing extra fuel , the engine core thing is its DRY thrust , thrust with afterburners can increase easily later also.Moreover plane uses 80% of engine on Dry Thrust. and only 20 uses (wet thrust) .

Look at you! Putting the cart before the horse!! Laying down the keel of a ship counts as making a ship? AC needs to be sailing to be considered AC. You are just too funny of a person! WS-10A flies jets, you wanna say it failed. India lays down a keel for AC and you wanna say India has successfully made an AC. Neither China nor India has made an AC. That's it, no way laying a keel counts as successfully designing AC. How do you know if the design is a success if the ship hasn't been tested yet? You can't test it if it hasn't been completed. No complete, no test, no AC = NO credit! Anyone can see your logic is broken.

WS-10 was not used; WS-10A was used because Chinese engines improve so fast that before WS-10 went into production, improved variant was made, so no point in making old variant. And I can't believe you don't see how pointless this discussion is about the ABC designation. China's turbofans power Flanker. We can call it WS-10, WS-10A, WS-10AA. WS-10AKDBSKS if we want. It powers jets and that's it. The name has no importance it all. The fact that you are so stuck on the name shows how little you have to criticize when it comes to Chinese engines.

For the last time, Kaveri's wet thrust is NOT simple to tune at all. You are trying to make it sound like an easy, small problem, no big deal. But everything you say is stupid. You can't just tune it, and it you can't increase it by just adding more fuel because it is a huge design problem. The proof is that India gave up and removed the afterburner altogether. If it just needed a little tuning, or just add more fuel, they would do just that and call it a success. I'm surprised you think you're smarter than these engineers. I have a tip for you. If all the engineers in India couldn't do it and gave up, but you think you have a simple solution (after 10 minutes of google and wikipedia), the most likely reason is not that you are so much smarter; the reason is that you understand so little about the problem that your solution is total horse shiiiat and you can't see why. They took out the afterburner. That is PROOF that it needs more work than India can do right now to get it right.

You know what's really funny with your logic? You want to make everything on a Chinese engine sound like a big problem. When there are no problems and it powers operational fighters, you say, "WS-10A? That name is a big problem! Why can it not be named WS-10? BIIGG PROBLEM!! BIIGG FAILURE!!!" Then, when the Indian Kaveri misses it's target thrust by over 10kN, you say, "70.4 out of 81? That is NO problem at all! Just need a little tuning and some more fuel!" And on top of that, it's not even true. This is your funny Indian double-standard.

Kaveri is equal to WS-10 and now you want to make one to equal WS-10A??? Biggest joke on the internet!

Kaveri: 49kN (49.2 rounds down to 49, not up to 50 haha) dry, 70kN wet. Future direction: remove afterburner and use as 49kN drone engine.
WS-10: ~70kN dry, 122kN wet. (not totally sure about numbers) Direction: developed into WS-10A
WS-10A: 89kN dry, 132kN wet. (Operational and in production) Future direction: developing into WS-10B and G

WS-10A has more dry thrust than Kaveri's taget for wet (which it failed to reach by over 10kN). Only in your personal "logic" could Kaveri even be close to WS-10 family.

LCA is not in service. FC-1 is. FC-1 is nearing block II and LCA is still not in service. What is for sure is that you can't say that because the LCA has a small thrust to weight advantage over the FC-1, it is better. That is far too much a simplification of fighter jets. FC-1 has much higher range (although I don't believe that the difference is as great as stated on wiki), same speed, and much higher service ceiling than LCA. That's what the engine is for, improving these parameters, and the design of the LCA air-frame fails to put these performance parameters in par with FC-1, despite using a better US engine than the Russian one currently in block 1. And don't forget to check the unit cost for FC-1 and LCA. FC-1 block 1 is 50-65% the price of LCA. AND, even though the FC-1 better than LCA, cheaper than LCA, and ready faster than the LCA, FC-1 is still not good enough for China to induct. That's how big the difference is between China's and India's standards.
 
.
This is has the raw stench of overspending and delays, its amazing how often the indian defense industry over estimates its capabilities.
 
.
This is has the raw stench of overspending and delays, its amazing how often the indian defense industry over estimates its capabilities.

Many Indians here do talk too much while has little accomplishment. Its time for Indians to work hard instead of holding pow wows in here!
 
. .
Many Indians here do talk too much while has little accomplishment. Its time for Indians to work hard instead of holding pow wows in here!

I agree.....too many Indians fall into the trap laid by 50 cents propaganda army solider and foolishly attempt to defend something that does not need any defence in the first place. :tup:

I guess the best punishment for them is to continue responding to 50 cents army trolls. :lol:

I like the chinese style of placing the blame on Indians thus forcing them to reply and defend and always be on the back foot :tup:
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom